Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by Pixie, Feb 9, 2013.
I love pet classes, I loved my Necromancer from D2
Lets pray for the next 2 new classes to have atleast one pet class involved. I really like the possibilities a one pet class have and lets be honest 2v1 is always good in a fight.
I think that if they have a pet class the player should ride on their pets. Otherwise the game would be broken considering the fact that combat is completely based around the void zones and it would be really broken if pets could just stand in them and be fine.
The problem of combat telegraphs has been mentioned several times.
Would it be impossible though, to give the pet AI the ability to sense and dodge telegraphs? I mean, they could have a chance of failing, meaning you'd still need to heal them, and perhaps a skill that allowed them to take less damage for a while, or have increased dodge speed/stamina...
I refuse to see it as impossible to implement, and I do believe there are options to "pets take no damage" and other "cheap" solutions.
Of course, the difficulty of making a pet class viable in the telegraph combat system may also be an indicator, since it would likely be the last class to be announced since it would take longer to design and balance the pet combat system.
Spellborn, which had a lot of AOE's and twitch based combat, had an interesting pet class, and this one just happened to be the one that took the longest to develop, because making the pets behave well in combat took time, but they managed (to a fair extent at least) Early on they decided to use the system to their advantage, making a lot of spells that had to do with positioning, swapping places with your pet, bonding and damage sharing etc, and while there may have been too many of those spells to make the pets appeal to the broader audience, it was fun and different.
It's not impossible but I don't think people would enjoy playing a class heavily reliant on an AI of a pet.
Just an example of a pet class spell that could make life a bit easier for a pet class without relying too much on an AI:
"Electroplanar shift (keeping with the robot minion wacky science theme here...):"
You swap places with your pet.
The electric discharge stuns nearby mechanic targets for 2 seconds
You receive damage immunity for 2 seconds
Upon immunity break your pet receives 30 hitpoints/sec for 6 seconds
This is probably completely different from how Wildstar skills will even work, but it's a suggestion similar to some of the Spellborn pet spells.
They could just have an engineer class... He could create stationary turrets that are easy to destroy in pvp but useful as hell in pve if used properly. Their abilities could range from simple grenades and mines to telegraphed abilities where they send exploding drones (a "pet" if u wanna look at it that way) or spider bots or all sorts of random stuff.
An ability I would like to see is a "Scramble" button: hit it and all your minions drop what they're doing and just scram in random directions. It could be used when some minions are in a telegraph, but some minions may also run into the telegraph. Chaos, wonderful chaos!
This would also keep the Despicable Me feel.
I also would like to see some variation in the minions. One shooting rockets, one wildly swinging a sword bigger than it, one maybe flinging some spells, etc. Maybe even one to heal the other minions.
Either that, or give the pet class an ability to recall pets to them, so you can dodge outta the way, and pull your pets back to your location while doing it. Or a dodge command that makes your pet run behind the enemy.
Or...or...make it a mechanic type healer, heals are more effective on mechanical beings...including your own minions, so keeping them up through telegraphs is much easier!
Or make them cost little so summon so when they die to a telegraph resummoning is easy!
Or ranged minions that always follow you and only attack when you do, acting like a damage increase or added effect to your own attacks, so when you dodge, they do too!
*mind boggles at the possibilities*
While running around with a whole bunch of little helpers may seem fun at first, it strikes me as somewhat too chaotic.
First, visually, I find it very annoying in dungeons, where the space is limited and just one minion class with the whole zoo out, practically blocks your view in narrow corridors (like WitchDoctor in Diablo3). Having two of them in party drove me nuts It's easy to loose track of what is what - is it your mates minion or an enemy that's chewing on your back?
Imagine few minion classes in a 40 men raid, instead of 15 players in mele range, you have 50 creatures. Telegraph? What telegraph? Did not see any
Second, having one pet allows for that pet to have a number of player controlled abilities, the higher the number, the less viable the whole idea becomes. Do I really want 5 minions with passive abilities that I have no control over? Would I want to be able to 'manage' all of them? Doubt that's possible in action oriented combat.
Third - action design. Even WoW, given years and years of experience, is not free, until now, from minor yet irritating bugs in regards to pets. Stances not working properly, pets getting stuck on a mob or terrain, recall or attack not working instantly, abilities on auto not triggering (shadowfiend anyone?), pets running off to attack yet another mob, even after aggressive stance was removed, and you happened to be targeting a daisy.
In GW2 pets are a disaster, to put it lightly. Mele pets get kited by mobs, barely doing any damage. Ranged pets, once out, often won't change position even if the mob goes out of range - only swapping pets can rectify the situation. I gave up on the dps aspect of them long ago, and simply drag along one, who can heal or remove conditions from me. That is all they are good for. And don't even get me started on necro pets in GW2 or shadowy apparitions in WoW.
In all, unless the devs are confident they got the design right, I'd strongly recommend staying away from multiple minions, hell, even staying away from the idea of any pet class altogether.
And last, fps issues - no matter how great your pc is, 10 DKs in a raid, popping army all at once are meant to be a disaster - if your pc is great, your fps will drop; if you happen to be playing on a less efficient machine, it crashes your game. That's no fun.
Give me one pet that works and I'll be thrilled. Allow for a true variety in the utility they bring, let me control them more then just by clicking one ability button, make them properly responsive. Let player skill determine whether the pet is useful or not.
I'd stay away from quantity, and focus on quality.
I loved the mastermind class in City of Villains, most recent games though like GW2 don't seem to really care about them, necromancers, still suck, mesmers have a weird pet system which isn't really a pet system, and hunters well they never seem to do that well in open rvr.
You covered most of my concerns. Though I am surprised no pvp enthusiasts have spoken how badly pets can inbalance pvp. I find pets, while adorable, generally more trouble than they are worth in most situations. From both a player's perspective and on the developmental resource side as well. There are games that don't have pet classes and do just fine. We will also be getting vanity pets and 'something to do with those pets' as well. Maybe some form of pet battling? I think this is a much better route to take than working on ai and pathing for pets.
Masterminds were great, and worked well in CoX
I'm sure the NPCs must have some dodging ability, the minions could have varying grades of this.
I think a tech minion master class would fit in VERY well with what we have seen so far from the world and toon art.
Cough cough (Engineer) type class from TL.
Everyone seems so estatic on the idea of a Minion class.
Considering how the game is being laid out, I certainly hope there isn't one. Pets has always been a huge issue when balancing and takes too much practice to learn and counter.
I mean, you are basically fighting 2 people at once if you'd add it to WildStar with Telegraphed attacks. Dodge twice the trouble. But this is a idea sanctioned by those that support the whole "minion" cause.
At ~30:38 here you can see an Esper summoning a spider illusion to fight for them. So there's at least one minion.
Later in the video they summon 2-3 of those spiders at once , also mentioned is the ability to charm monsters, from the sound of it. Looking like this is a top contender on class for me now. Not to mention a good number of random tidbits like mass pull bonuses for farming, etc. and the opinion that the Esper is a hard (hardest?) class to play well.
Anyone else notice that there is no pet classes in the game? I'd imagine that one of the 2 unforeseen classes is based around pets, at least, I hope it is.
Some say the engineer like class can have turrets/drones or whatever sci-fy pet you can have.
I myself don't mind it since in every game i hated the pet class.
If you want a job well done, you better do it youreself! So no pet needed here