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Imagine a minion master class

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by Pixie, Feb 9, 2013.

  1. Katu_Kath

    Katu_Kath Robot Cupcake

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    I always hated pet classes for PvP, seemed like they were just to hard to balance with the amount of pets you could get. GW2 had this issue, a skilled ranger could keep might and retaliation up just with pet abilities.
  2. Alverad

    Alverad Well-Known Cupcake

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    Not fussed really... I always enjoyed hunter/ranger type classes, but they pets' ai is usually so bad across games I often wished they weren't there.
  3. sendlor

    sendlor Cupcake-About-Town

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    Pet class is more about enjoying your pets company! :inlove: For example if you are a solo player it is always good to have a companion(pet) around you so you won't feel lonely in the game :D
  4. Witless

    Witless "That" Cupcake

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    Don't know about Dominion but the Exiles already have a pet class. Aurin!
  5. Goreshank

    Goreshank Cupcake-About-Town

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    I like the idea of pet classes but I find their implementation to be weak in many games (stupid AI ect). I don't know how a persistent pet class would handle the telegraphed attacks of mobs/players but I rather like the idea of disposable pets that some people have tossed around on these forums. Like you'd have a wind up bomb pet that runs at your target, temp turrets (think Axton in BL2), and other things that generally go boom.
  6. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    We (dominion) get little gremlins as pet's! But to me they are just little doggie, i'll just let them bite all Exile scum in the ankles and when they are down, i'll shoot their head off....BOEM...HEADSHOT!
  7. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    i personally hate pet classes. I stopped playing a mage in wow when it turned into a pet class .. even just a trinketed pet class. I loved my frost mage. Hated that stupid elemental.

    that being said I do find it odd that there is no pet class. while I personally would try to avoid it at least at first, i have no problem with other people playing pet classes.
  8. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    I am not voting here since it is not really a aya or nay for me - it depends on the implementation.

    I do not want a specific pet class. First of all they seem so overpowered for solo play, and nerfing their soloplay to be equal to other classes soloplay is just not possible without making the pet useless, and if useless, why have it in the first place.

    I do want a type of combat pet/companion that any class can hire/breed/capture either permanently (pet collections ftw) or on a temporary basis, for instance until one group up with other players, die, log out.

    So, a pet maker/breeder profession to supply pets or hiring ones alts - or maybe even friend listed chars when they are offline :cautious: - or some third thing everyone has access to for soloing. I can most likely think of other ways that would make combat pet a more interesting game feature rather than just a class feature.

    But, my vote is may(be).
    Patrician likes this.
  9. mge_br

    mge_br Cupcake

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    I all for it, as long as they make it fun and balenced ,unlike some other games ( I am looking at you Guild Wars 2 ).

    If they have to many issues creating one i would prefer they didnt include one just for the sake of it. I am naturally atracted to pet class (maybe because I used to be a Zoologist, or because i am lazy and like thes extra help :) ) and if they made a crapy one I am pretty sure I gona keep trying to play with it even if I am having no fun.
  10. Katu_Kath

    Katu_Kath Robot Cupcake

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    We already have confirmed vanity pets, so you can have those. I just dislike any class that has an advantage in numbers above the other classes.
  11. JCwildthing

    JCwildthing Cupcake

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    I think vanity pets are fine. I have never been a fan of the hunter type class in MMOs. It just doesn't fit my play style for combat. I have a sense that the telegraph system may make combat pets more of a nuisance than assistance anyhow.
  12. Yakzan

    Yakzan "That" Cupcake

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    <Mod Monocle> I merged these threads because they're talking about the same thing. Do use the search function or look around if you have something to talk about because a thread might already exist for it, thank you. </Mod Monocle>
  13. Patrician

    Patrician "That" Cupcake

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    I just am not sure how pets would work with telegraphs. Unless they were immune to them, but that kind of defeats he purpose and makes it a teeny bit lame.

    It all depends on the implementation of course. If one of the TBD classes is one, I'll see how they go about it and then decide from there if I like the class.
  14. mockingfox

    mockingfox Cupcake

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    Now while I hate to be the cold shoulder to anyone's dream bubble, this is a resounding no.
    this is why.

    1. PvP
    someone made a quote about 38 people in a 40 man raid being the multipet class and it causing lag. This is true and the extreme of the situation, but the problem is even not in the extreme sense this is a very real danger for a number of reasons. A multipet class means having more characters on the screen all the time, and since they must be of notable size they will take up space and complicate the battlefield just by existing.
    say the class has control over possistioning of each of there three ball pets, they float to where u want them to and stay there. even if there damage is garbage all of them combined must equate 1 player. this kind of disenbodied control is intrisnically powerful from a design standpoint for a number of reasons; namely that they can be moved constantly and erratically causing clutter further complicating every encounter. strategis like stacking them together in a corner and using the petmasters (assumed) control abilities to kite opponents who ignore the minions till they die, or inversly having the minions draw agro only to have the pet master control them into oblivion or simply flee.
    There is a saying in WoW; a hunter is a 3 man party. this is with only 1 pet and no matter how u balance it a body is a body is a body and it grants you far to much advantage over other classes.

    Can this be fixed with balancing, yes it can but then you still have 3 more models zipping around doing things you need to look at ontop of the 3 other models trying to kill you, its to much all the time. God forbid there is actually two of them in the same place!

    2. Complication of Play.
    I understand the appeal of making a character class boil down more akin to a RTS game than a classic MMO hero but again there are elements of this people are overlooking from a design perspective. this pet class, and you may all think this wont be a problem BUT IT WILL BE, will require a level of micro so intense to preform COMPARED TO all the other classes that it will be tier harder to play leading to the class appearing underpowered to all but the most dedicate players. I understand this is something you think you can handle but when every encounter is a fast paced multiclick strategy battle it becomes to much.

    Solution just give the pets Default AI right why not let them do there thing until i say otherwise? this is bad because it will lead to players being able to just sit back and watch their three little minions blow <REDACTED> up, farmers everywhere will rejoice!

    Again solution, balance the default AI on the minions to be simple until i comand them complexly. True this is a medium but now were getting back to complex strategies compared to easy other classes that this class is balanced against. Now your factoring in player skill to balance and this will squew the power of the class constantly. Sounds good for the people who love it, but not everyone else (and im not just talking about players being good make a good class and bad players make a bad class. this would mean that unless a player is peak performance with the class it will be garbage or get rebalanced to not require so much from the player resulting in an overpowered class to those who can abuse it) this results in a back and forth in balancing, painful for everyone. All so a player can have 4 models instead of 1-2 for there character is not feasable.

    Tl:dr No, because on a MMO gameplay level it is disruptive to the play space for others and has balancing issues that come with multibody classes (think hunters +pets +faintdeath, or if u let an enginier in TF2 have 2-3 turrets!)
  15. Wayoverpowered

    Wayoverpowered Cupcake-About-Town

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    Most of the stuff you're listing either has been done before in an MMORPG with no real issues (multiple pets controllable, see DAOC Bonemaster for mobile or Animist for turret-type) and can just be balanced around how many pets you'd have typical and max as well as the actual player character's power, plus general situational factors. Graphics-wise, they don't have to be giant monstrosities filling everyone's screen, just big enough to see if they're on you. They also don't have to be directly controlled pets, or uniquely assignable rather than commanded as a group.

    Fire and forget "pets" basically function like a killable DOT with a physical form to it (see Theurgist in DAOC)... multiple turrets on the ground can be setup to be commanded as a group just like a traditional pet's commands, as can multiple mobile pets (DAOC handled this by letting you summon different types on the Bonedancer, one main one of an archetype and then 2-3 sub-pets such as debuffer, buffer, healer, ranged nuker, melee, etc.). Yes, having extra targets and visual clutter is intrinsically powerful, but why is this a bad thing? It's just another layer of complexity to the game: filter out less important targets in PVP that are relevant or not to your current situation during a fight, just like you always (should) do already. This includes looking out for pets, other players, and tactics for kiting/anti-CC/etc.

    As far as complication of play? I don't really understand where you're coming from here. It doesn't have to require intense micromanagement, and even if said class were designed to, again why is that a bad thing? So long as it's balanced so the skillful can reap some extra absolute power at the cost of the character being harder to play, while it's weaker for the average player than other classes, this is again fine. You end up with an "easy to play, hard to master" class, which again so long as there's a benefit in return for the complexity, is balanced. I've seen some examples of classes where this was not really the case (Engineer in WAR didn't give very much benefit for being notably more difficult to perform well with as an example). You are right, there needs to be a payoff for the added difficulty so it's not just tons of effort for no reward.

    Finally, on "disrupting people's play space", how is that different than any other character? A bunch of small pets romping around, versus twenty meteor showers raining on an enemy as multiple fireballs zip towards them? Yeah, the minions need to be distinctive enough from a player, just like a spell effect is, but that's about it. I don't think I ever saw a single person complain in DAOC over several years of playing, that the multi-pet/turret/etc. classes were somehow intrusive to them on the battlefield in RVR in any special manner. And until sometime in the last expansion pack (Labyrinth), Theurgists could spam an infinite number of fire/forget pets of different types but for their power bar (geared right you could pump out 40-50 simultaneously) though they eventually limited it to 16, and Animists always could drop out 16 turrets (shrooms). Ultimately it's just another play type in an MMORPG class setup.

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