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Is LFD on its way out?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by John, May 19, 2013.

  1. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    Read it again. He did.

    I'm here to have a discussion, not resort to name-calling tactics. If you're not interested in discussing, I think you're on the wrong forum.

    I'm not arguing for the LFD tool so much as clarifying how the claims that are being made about LFD's impact on MMOs are largely based on nothing. I've played MMOs long before LFD features were added and long before World of Warcraft was even released. People have always acted the way they do since long before LFD. What HAS changed, however, was the difficulty of dungeon content. Blaming a feature for the behavior of other people is again intellectual laziness. I've been in all too many groups pre-LFD where people cussed out the entire group and ragequit, or just ninja'd loot and dropped group without a word. These people were far less anonymous than they are now but I never saw any sort of change in the game community as a result of LFD's implementation and I ran plenty of dungeons both before and after LFD's inclusion.

    If you want people in the world, make the world more interesting. If you want people to be more social and grouping to be more of a team effort, make group content more difficult so that working together actually becomes a part of the game. I will respect opposing viewpoints, but I'm really not interested in getting involved in a pissing contest. Please keep such antics on the playground instead of bringing them to an area of discussion, thank you.
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  2. Kaelang

    Kaelang Cupcake-About-Town

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    I honestly hope that this game takes the old 'LOOK FOR GROUP' into account. Sitting in zone chat asking for people to explore with you adds another level of immersion when compared to selecting a 'Heal' role in a tab.

    Also, this gives the incentive for players to actually join guilds, or circles.
  3. BonusStage

    BonusStage Well-Known Cupcake

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    challenging content incentives players to join guilds and circles.
    LFD's keep chat clean so there isnt a lv 78 paladin looking for group on the trade chat.
  4. Kaelang

    Kaelang Cupcake-About-Town

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    This is true, however you're quoting a game where the LFD is already present. People, clearly, still use the zone chat for LFG with that system in place. Furthermore, if there was no LFD players would look for regular mates to run dungeons with. Guilds / Circles. :)
  5. Kalmander

    Kalmander Well-Known Cupcake

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    There is a tensy, tiny, bitty, wee problem with that... Sitting in zone/city chat asking people to explore/dungeon with only works if there are people listening, or interested in what you are saying. Otherwise, you are just preaching to the choir, or even worse... Spamming...

    I'm afraid the "LFG!!! need tank for X dungeon, PST!!!" does not make the game more social... If you ask for a tank in chat for 1 hour, and finally get one, do you know what that means? You just spent 1 hour spamming everyone on chat... Yes, pure and undiluted spam, because until you got that tank 1 hr later, no one was interested in your message.

    We do need some kind of LFG tool. No, we do not need the WoW equivalent of the LFG tool (I think that one has quite a few problems), but we do need something. Spamming chat is not a good solution either. It creates spam, it wastes your time and has many more problems. Asking for a tank when there are no tanks around is a huge waste of time.

    We need a tool that lets us see who is interested in running what, what groups are forming up, etc. Then we can contact those people by chat, and ask them if they want to party. But we do need something to help us get together. A matchmaking service for parties. Matchmaking services do not force you to go out with someone, it just presents options, and you choose what you need/want. That is exactly what we need.
  6. BonusStage

    BonusStage Well-Known Cupcake

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    because the skill cap is so low in that game that people still fail to do simple runs.

    people will always look for groups on chat, because using LFD is a choice, if you make content harder, the more harder and organization you need to complete that content, less people will use LFD and more people will group up/make connections inside their own server.

    the tool is meant to facilitate/speed up, the process of finding that last member, who usually is a tank or a healer, so instead of waiting for 3hours in a queue, you wait 20minutes.

    being a tank and always having a guild i dont have this issues, but i cant tell people how to play the game, they should have the option to play however they choose to play.
  7. Kaelang

    Kaelang Cupcake-About-Town

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    I understand where you're coming from and I know what it's like to see chat filled with spammers looking for certain players, unfortunately usually adding requirements. 'GS5k+ or no reply'. This is one thing I don't want to see, and I agree that there does need to be something to get people together.

    That being said, casual guilds, circles are here. If people really want to run these dungeons and things this is always one option. Grated it's probably not enough, the option is still there. Whether or not an LFD system is in place, taking Warcraft for example here, and even Neverwinter, people still spam the channels so it seems that this doesn't always work.

    Personally I think there needs to be some form of matchmaking if you're LFG or even a specific area in a town where players go when looking for a group, that way people don't spam the zone channels trying to get attention, they only do it in specified locations.

    On top of this, a /lfg on toggle similarly found in EQ would also be a good idea, that way players, group leaders, can manually search for classes / levels they're looking for. A bit of filtering and you have an adaptation of the LFD tool.

    :)
  8. M3stro0

    M3stro0 Cupcake

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    People on both sides seem to ignore the fact that LFD/R especially cross server made it so much more easier to ninja loot and in general be an <REDACTED>.

    And there's no solution to ninja looting in LFD with x-realm. It got rapdily out of control at the end of WotLK with everyone rolling need on every BOE epic that dropped in a heroic 5 man.

    I can only assume how terrible it is in LFR when BOE epics drop
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  9. BonusStage

    BonusStage Well-Known Cupcake

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    that's a issue with the loot and class system, nothing to do with LFR

    having each class being able to equip 1 weapon type only and making gear distinct enough that ninja looting cant happen, and voi-la! no more ninja looting.

    and sorry man if a BoE epic drops, i have no idea if you are accuatly going to use it, of course iam rolling for it.
    on wildstar they could find a way around that, it shoudnt be hard, but complaining about that is like Bs, old school MMO's that had no lfd also didnt have loot systems you had to be fast and be around a boss to hope to grab any loot at all when on a pug

    that's why its named ninja, you had to be fast on your feet to steal loot, just like LFD the loot system is a quality of life feature, that should be kept on the game, because the good it does outweights the bad.
  10. Kaelang

    Kaelang Cupcake-About-Town

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    Especially if people can't roll on other class items unless there is none, of said class, present. Ninjaing is cut by like 90% then. :)
  11. M3stro0

    M3stro0 Cupcake

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    No it has everything to do with cross server grouping.

    Prior to LFD if you ninja looted and the people you screwed got pissed then literally everyone on the server knew what you did and who you are and you generally didn't get invited to groups or allowed in raiding guilds.

    When you have a 6 realm pool on LFD it basically obsoleted that method of dealing with ninja looters as you don't decide who you group with in LFD and even if the dude did get blacklisted on his home server he could just go back to LFD and continue his shenanigans.

    I hate this idea because of range, that's why Blizz put in BOE epics so if you didn't get anything for your class you could pick up a BOEA granted no one else needed it for your alt or AH.

    When you make everything restricted via class you're really going to start pissing people off with rng.
  12. Kaelang

    Kaelang Cupcake-About-Town

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    True, I was thinking from playing Neverwinter earlier. But the principle still stands, if armor is restricted to class then it could work that way, kind of. :)
  13. M3stro0

    M3stro0 Cupcake

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    Listen I'm fine with LFD sans cross realm

    Cross realm opens up a lot of negatives for a minor convenience. Now if it was solely your server with the LFD matching that's fine, but you open up many more worms with cross realm
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  14. Kalmander

    Kalmander Well-Known Cupcake

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    Unfortunately, that perception is also false... And it's statistical. If you have a general tank shortage on a game, doing x-server will not magically create more tanks... If you have 10% tanks all around, that means you have 10% tanks on your server. If you group up with another server with 10% tanks, then you still have 10% tanks... If you x-server all servers and they all have 10% tanks in general, then you'll still have 10% tanks...

    X-server is great when what you need is just masses of people regardless of class composition. So it's great for battlegrounds for example. When you have to take class composition into account, then X-server is not as good. It can help servers with very low population, by placing them in a larger pool, but in general, there will be no change.

    If you have to wait 1hr on your server as DPS, you'll probably have to wait a similar amount of time x-server (if the tank/healer/DPS ratio is similar across servers)...
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  15. Witless

    Witless "That" Cupcake

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    For me this. My dislike is with Xrealm and how it is the debil!
  16. Kalmander

    Kalmander Well-Known Cupcake

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    Never played EQ, but that sounds like something that could work. But yes, we need something to group people together, not to force people together.

    We just can't take extremes. If I want to buy a house, we cannot have a tool that I press a button, and the system buys a house for me (WoW tool), but I cannot go around shouting "Looking for a house! please call me!" because I probably will not get a good response (chat channels). We need some classified adds, websites, places were we can place information on what houses are on sale, and where other sellers/buyers can place information, and we can all share, so we get what we need in the end...

    Blizzard is great at going to extremes, I hope Carbine is a bit more subdued when adding features.
  17. Rakkis

    Rakkis Cupcake

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    LFD is very important, and needs to be included day 1. What it should not be is an automatic teleportation to dungeon and x-server. I remember this not being in SWTOR at launch and think how awesome it's going to be to have community again... WRONG. What happened was there were very few times when i got a group, literally waiting for hours. Unfortunately what the problem is people aren't interested anymore in the whole chat grouping. So LFD must be in lunch day. It simply doesnt work anymore with out it.
  18. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    Before I quit WoW, the dungeon finder had instituted countermeasures for ninja-looting. It certainly wasn't perfect, but it was designed so that needing BoEs would automatically bind it to you if you won, while if everyone greed rolls it, it'll still be a BoE that can be sold or traded.

    It worked well enough in my opinion. I don't think forcing everyone to only use one type of weapon is the solution though. I don't want variety in the game reduced because some people don't respect the presence of others in the game world.

    Maybe it was a misunderstanding then. My original post was mostly just elaborating on the thread subject in general and less about his comment. All I can assume is that when reading his comments, we interpreted them differently.
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  19. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    I wouldn't call what dungeon finders do a "minor convenience". More like a huge one compared to the pre-LFD days. Just my experiences.
  20. M3stro0

    M3stro0 Cupcake

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    That was more or less due to the fact that SWTOR launched with 60 servers.
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