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Jeremy Gaffney posts on Elder Game content 5/5/2013

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by MeakGG, May 5, 2013.

  1. MeakGG

    MeakGG Cupcake-About-Town

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    "Here's some quick philosophy on the subject (still in the office at 6pm Sunday so I'll have to be brief):​

    We do believe in catering to the 1% (actually a few different 1%'s). We spend more than 1% of our time on them. Why?​

    Well, the 1% grew over time in the MMO market. It used to be that few people were at the end game stages of the MMOs, but of course as time passes the percentage of players there grows. And some who hated PVP as noobies learned they loved it, and some who struggled in dungeons took on veteran dungeons and learned to raid, etc. So that "1%" of people who do the hard end-game content has grown a bit (it's still not pervasive per se; and the toughest raids are still only finished by a fraction of the playerbase).​

    Several factors apply:​

    1) The 1% are pretty vocal. If they report back to the 99% that the elder game sucks, guess what? Lots of people leave - why bother levelling up if no love was put into the very top content? (Well there actually answers to that, but I'll leave it for brevity).​

    2) Over time, your "1%" content becomes easier - better loot drops, people get more skilled, level caps raise. So that percentage our of time spent actually over time does get utilized well.​

    3) We devs often ARE the 1%. If you make a game you don't love, it's pretty damn hard to make it good. We want a game we want to play too. There are a disproportionate amount of hardcore raiders/PVPers in the industry (and probably also in those passionate enough to post here or on other MMO sites for that matter).​

    4) There's some magic involved. Picture a game with no nigh-inaccessible content. You can go anywhere the first month, there's nothing left unseen. From one perspective, maybe that's great - there's no earning your way into Counterstrike maps, and that game's pretty damn fun. But from another...I dunno, it's pretty tough to have a mysterious, huge-feeling world when you can trivially do it all, and even in games I don't want to or don't have time to raid in I'd like to know there's more out there. That's arguable though.​

    So we focus a lot on elder games. We're trying to have innovative answer for each major playstyles:​

    Soloers PVE'ers (IMO under-served in most MMOs oddly as they are 65+% of the playerbase in most western MMOs) get more than rep grinds and dailies by having solo story dungeons released regularly, dynamic PQ content (most to be revealed down the road), big frequent updates, housing stuff, good tradeskilling, and more.​

    PVPers: Warplots (40v40 player built city v city combat) and arenas (to oversummarize)​

    Group PVE'ers: Dynamic raid content, weekly competitions for legendary gear, and more (some to be revealed later)​

    Some of that stuff (especially the group stuff) needs to be damn hard. We want the best guilds capturing raid bosses in challenging ways, and pinning them down on their warplots to go beat the <REDACTED> out of the other fortresses. Many noobie players may never experience that - but hopefully they hear about it and aspire to it.​

    We're trying to make everyone useful, so the major guilds will end up with raiders, warplotters, and soloers contributing to the overall guild's success, in roughly the proportions they naturally exist in the playerbase. We'll see if we succeed at that (beta's all about finishing implementation, then tuning tuning tuning to make sure it all plays well individually and together).​

    Anyhoo, there's tons more on the subject, especially as we do more reveals later this year on elder games, deeper dives on features, etc. Maybe we'll muck up some of the execution (don't believe so at the moment, but there's lots to do still. I don't expect or desire any "gimmes" from the MMO communities as a whole; there's been enough hype in recent years in the biz that the proof HAS to be in the pudding for us and future games).​

    But strategically we have a set of goals that we feel passionate about. Opinions welcome."​
    - Jeremy Gaffney.​


    I just felt that people needed to see this post in it's own essence, rather than at the end of a thread. Enjoy! Discuss!​


    Edit* I'm transferring these likes to you Jeremy. I don't deserve them!
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  2. UNDERZZZZZ

    UNDERZZZZZ Cupcake-About-Town

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    Copy and pasted from that thread for the sake of discussion

    It's EXTREMELY refreshing to hear devs justify and create content that caters for 'the 1%'. I'm sick and tired of watching the WoW devs justify LFR/hardmodes and all the different modes, just because it opens up more people to the content. It takes value out of that aspect of the game.

    I have been around when the 1% existed, climbed into the 1% with numerous firsts in leveling and raiding, and then quit since. I do not desire to raid in top level content again because it's a drag and the worth is sucked out completely out of it. I've cleared top level content, and what? It's going to get nerfed in 2 months, 10m/25m share the same loot and even those raids are too similar and take the fun out of entering the new raids. I cannot put into words how simply perfect my day was when I entered BT and Hyjal following the massively difficult attunements. If LFR existed then, I'd have been in BT and that initial experience would be non-existent and meaningless. This highlights point 1 and 4 pretty well for me on a personal level.

    I believe it is important to make distinguishable differences through better gear or whatever for the 1% of players, and those differences are generated from the difficulty of those raids. I do agree that entry to these raids needs to be provided, which I believe both solo PVE and group PVE would play a great role in that. But they should be a stepping stone to the 1% and not an alternative to it, which is where I believe WoW has fell massively short. I think that their justifications for opening it up for more people is simply to hide the fact that the correct stepping stones and content have failed to be provided to players who may enjoy similar, but different content.

    As an interesting note, challenge modes from WoW are a GREAT addition, and simple to implement, providing just another slice of content for top players. I don't know what Carbine intend, but a competitive and rewarding feature that didn't benefit players capabilities was definitely something that is enjoyable.

    Catering content to the 1% is important. It gives motivation and aspiration to the 99% which for me personally was a massive factor in my huge time spent when I was in that percentile. When that boundary was eroded, I believe it was the main factor as why my love for the game faded. I wholeheartedly support Carbine's decision to cater for 'the 1%' and would be greatly disappointed to see this philosophy abandoned.
  3. Rumze

    Rumze "That" Cupcake

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    Like I said in the other thread, its very nice to see a long term plan in place and vision on how they are going to make it work.
    Also nice to see they have folks working on content across the player base at elder game.
    And on top of that, nice to get this info when most of us were going round and round in circles. Nice to have put that to rest.
  4. Whatley

    Whatley Cupcake

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    I will admit, In all the MMO's I have played over the last 10 years, I have never really been even close to the 1%. I might have been... maybe 20% at my peak. That being said: I still, and even while not actually playing the game; I watched the world first kills, I knew who the best Arena Team was.

    I never thought as the 1% this way, and would have probably supported a increase in accessibility or an elimination to the 1% content before this post.

    You may enjoy football, but you shouldn't disband the NFL because you can't play for them.
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  5. Silvers

    Silvers New Cupcake

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    His post is dead on too. I never raided that much in WoW, but seeing groups of raiders form up in cities and such preparing for their raid always keep me leveling in hopes to be apart of that some day.
  6. Zybak

    Zybak Cupcake-About-Town

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    This makes me have hope for the game! Finally someone understands that giving people something to reach for is way more rewarding than being able to 5 man everything the first week.
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  7. Haoli

    Haoli Cupcake-About-Town

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    Best analogy I've ever heard for this. Sigging this.

    This is really great to hear, and just affirms the faith that's been built up from watching developer interviews and reading the press release that I have. Seeing all this, I really feel Carbine as a whole really understands the MMO industry in a way few companies do.
    Whatley likes this.
  8. Maddog Charlie

    Maddog Charlie Cupcake-About-Town

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    Good to hear and hopefully will dispell some of the fears of the 1%'ers. Often a worry with smaller companies that the other games will be tweaked until it becomes a heavy proportion of the Dev time spent catering for that elite level of players, but with Carbine I completely get that they will still develop and add content for the majority as the bulk of their work.

    Some people are just not that keen to get to cap and want to develop their character laterally and in a less vertical competitive environment.

    BUT great to know that if you want to go 'full on' and compete with the big guys then there will be routes to do that and content in the elder game that will be suitably challenging and refreshed. Great to hear this posted THANKS MeakGG.

    (Yeah sorry Jeremy but your 7 day week wont stop until launch, then you can turn it over to Chad and the Busters to maintain and you can kick back for a well earned vacation :D)
  9. kiri

    kiri Cupcake-About-Town

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    I was so stoked to read that, they really get it.

    You have to have something for everyone, but it's OK not to have everything for everyone. Having everything immediately accessible seems good on paper, but it takes away from the mystery of the world - and (imo) that sense of mystery/wonder is the secret ingredient that make good MMOs more than the sum of their parts.

    I remember our WoW server first vanilla Ragnaros kill - and I thought the people in that guild must be some kind of rockstars! I was a total noob so I felt like all of that stuff was way out of my league, but the allure of all those things out of my reach kept me playing. It felt like a living world where you could venture out and discover something that no one else (or at least very few) had ever seen or done before. There's something really powerful in that!
  10. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    This sums up how I believe very well.
    One of the problems I’ve had with most of the MMOs over the past decade is that I did not believe that they created any new content for me; The Soloer, who occasionally does small PUGs, Altaholic. Most new content seemed to be after cap or a new cap, with the focus on Raids. CoHV kept me interested for its 8+ years because it would introduce content that would activate the Altaholic part of me (Not enough though to keep me subscribing full time for the past few years.). Unfortunately CoHV had no real Cap content, so those who needed that, left or never picked up the game; but even after 8+ years it had a solid player base that kept it profitable right up to when the <REDACTED>ing Beancounters closed down the servers.
  11. Sol

    Sol Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm just happy that we have a developers that are content saying what aspects they are concentrating on and what aspects they aren't, rather than telling us every single feature of theirs is brand new, exciting, flamboyant, surprising, totally unseen, mega cool, supercalafragalistic expialadotious....

    You can't keep everyone happy, so it's great to hear them say what players they are trying to cater to and their reasons for it.
  12. Danny Nielsen

    Danny Nielsen Cupcake

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    Well said, clapping my little hands :)
  13. Cupcake

    Cupcake Cupcake

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    Nothing killed wow for me like LFR did, gaining access to every boss fight face-rolling the content albeit for lower tier rewards just left nothing in the game to be really worked for.

    I applaud carbine for sticking to their guns on elder game content as this is what makes or breaks an MMO for me.
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  14. Crimzen

    Crimzen Cupcake

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    Definitely agree. It's a breathe of fresh air honestly, after seeing so many companies discard key parts of MMO's entirely.
  15. Calsic

    Calsic Cupcake-About-Town

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    After reading that post, I'm even more confident that Carbine really do know what we need. I spent my first few months of playing WoW without any idea about what raiding was exactly. I just knew those people in their purples seemed like celebrities. I couldn't raid, but the idea of it was exciting and mysterious, and maybe someday ...

    Even once I joined a raiding guild and started having some success, it was motivating to know that there was stuff out there that my guild couldn't do. And that was ok.
  16. Sabre070

    Sabre070 Cupcake-About-Town

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    The only thing that concerns me about that post is:
    I feel this will kind of force people to join the big spammy guilds. I may be wrong, but I don't want to see a small guild (20ish people) being completely screwed over purely because of numbers.

    I'll have to see closer to release - it'll either not be as bad as I think or I'll have to get more people for my guild.
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  17. Nightsong

    Nightsong Cupcake-About-Town

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    This makes me so happy to see a return to the 'motivational carrot on a stick' approach.

    Really, that is what kept me playing the early MMO's for so long. There was always content just out of my reach but it ended up being something for me to strive for and one day hope to actually see. I just don't see or have that hook anymore in more recent MMO's and I'm so glad to see Carbine sticking to this philosophy and trying to bring that 'motivational carrot on a stick' approach back.
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  18. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    Agreed, especially as I deeply dislike large guilds. A comfortable size for me is 20-30 people, which is pretty reasonable for a roleplay guild, but obviously we're going to want to do more than just RP...
  19. Sabre070

    Sabre070 Cupcake-About-Town

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    It depends on if they are basing it on guild progress or player progress. If you have 20 people raiding then you can't do the 40 mans alone - but if you join with another guild do you both get rewarded with those goodies? Or are they just random drops and whoever gets them?

    Only time will tell.

    Also - I agree, I prefer to know everyone that is in the guild that I'm in, rather than having it segment into small groups anyway. I wouldn't mind some kind of alliance type system though.

    Edit: Or a system that rewards you based off of the number of people in your guild, so spam inviting heaps of people won't get you huge rewards. Not sure how this would work or if it would even fit into their system, but just something to not force huge guilds would be nice.
  20. Draahl

    Draahl Cupcake-About-Town

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    This makes me afraid, im not going to have a life for a very long time when Wildstar comes out. A studio that actually GETS IT! Finally!

    Not that i have much of a life now, hardcore gamer at heart but still :p

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