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Level as Tank/Heal

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by Shazril, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. Shazril

    Shazril New Cupcake

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    Today's uplink made me think to the days of being a healer or tank and getting insta-queues, but waiting hours when taking my DPS alt to get the daily. I love that the trinity is going to be in the game and look forward to playing a healer...but I wonder how they are going to balance the inevitable lack of tanks/healers in the group finder?
    Are the tank/healing archetypes and related skills going to be viable leveling specs?
    I hated that leveling as a tank or a healer took twice as long as DPS, so would generally go for the 'leveling spec' (aka DPS) and then having to figure out how to re-spec, earn new gear, and re-learn how to play as a tank/healer once I was at max level, because I had learned all the DPS skills the past 50 levels. Or, having to carry around 2 sets of gear while leveling and spending money to respec every time we reached the right level to go into instances, cause I was the only one who could spec heals.
    I think making all archetypes of the trinity equally efficient levelers will help spread the balance of archetypes and make a group finder (with 'my server only' option) more effective. That will contribute to a more well-balanced and ultimately healthier community.
    Or is it just the nature that most people don't want to play tank/heals? I've healed in several games and loved it (but it is a frustrating and thankless role - at least with telegraphs the healer really can yell "DONT STAND IN THE RED STUFF")
    (p.s., I tried searching forums before posting - sorry if this has already been discussed)
    Tiberius, Afrotech and ruff_ethereal like this.
  2. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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    One thing I think that will help is this game has no classes that can't either tank or heal (presumably) 50% can tank, 50% can heal and all can DPS so with that odds are good you'll have at least one person willing to take on either role.
  3. Vossler

    Vossler Cupcake

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    I believe you can use any of the class abilities, but because of stat points you probably wouldn't do as much damage. Yet I doubt it'll be a giant gap.
  4. Balgoss

    Balgoss Cupcake

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    I think they should allow a dual-spec option on a very early point, like, right when you get your main spec; So from a very low level, when players are on their own, questing - They would use their DPS spec, and when with friends - They could switch to their Tank / Healer spec, if they so desire. About gearing up - I think it would be quite nice if they would add two items as quest rewards - For example - When you turn in a quest, it would be like:

    "Choose 1 reward for your Main-Spec:"
    -DPS Item 1
    -DPS Item 2
    Etc

    And then - "Choose 1 reward for your Off-Spec:"
    -Healer Item 1
    -Tank Item 2
    -X/Y Item 3

    This way, the players get the 'green-quality' items from the quests for both specs, and they are ready to go for dungeons / Multiplayer gameplay with both specs. I didn't look into a way to make healers and tanks as viable for leveling as DPS, because I can't see it happening; If you boost their damage while questing, you leave the DDers at a disadvantage. So I guess it should be as it was so far - When solo, DPS spec. When with friends - DPS / TANK / HEALER spec. I just offered a way to make gearing up less of a pain. ^.^
  5. Shazril

    Shazril New Cupcake

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    While even I think this is a bit odd to say - I hope there is more of a gap. I'd much rather have defined roles that are strong at what they are meant to do (if they really are pushing the holy trinity) - than have a lot of half-gimped-kinda-archetype roles. I get what you are saying about stat assignments, but if there's not much of a gap between heals and dps - then you're neither. It's one of the reasons I get bored with the combat in GW2 - cause everyone is kinda every archetype and yet none of them really take on a defined role. It's boring.
    spencerBAXLEY likes this.
  6. Deltre

    Deltre Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yeah I remember running into some problems when people just didn't want to respec for tank or heals and just wanted to dps. U could complain about it but you can't hate on people for playing the game how they want to. Carbine could try and make questing just as fun or not terrible if you choose to level as a tank/heals spec.

    I leveled my paly up when tbc came out as prot(tank). Though that was when you could prot aoe grind and I had a blast leveling up to 70. I could also heal if need be. Even though I had to carry around extra gear I never saw it as a burden, I enjoyed being able to switch back and forth and be as useful as I could be.
  7. Veckna

    Veckna Well-Known Cupcake

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    I enjoy all the roles - when playing tank or healer with something new I tend to level with a tanking/healing spec, it might be slower but I get familiar with the skillset and resource management as well as being more comfortable knowing what I can get away with (tanks/healers can generally do a fair amount of small group quests solo).
    As you mention instance queues are usually pretty fast so if you've done the content before (like I had in SWTOR on my 4th-8th alts) you can just level via the instances fairly well.

    As to specifics of Wildstar I don't think we've got the information to answer you yet. All we know is that you can choose up to 10 skills and 5 milestones (the milestones I've seen have been passive effects like extra damage etc) from the pool of skills you know and swap them as needed outside of combat.
    I may be wrong but I think someone mentioned buying the skills from a shop-like interface so it depends if you have the 'currency' you need to get the skills you want + any other restrictions (may have level requirements or other prerequisites etc) as to whether you can put together something that suits your playstyle at first.

    With stats differing for the alternate roles it may need two sets of gear, then again it may not depending on how much of the stats are tied up in gear and any form of ability scaling from stats. Maybe people who played at PAX might have some insight on that side of things. Levelling content is usually fairly forgiving though, in past MMO's I can't recall when I've ever needed a specific set as opposed to a more general purpose mish-mash of random rewards that I typically end up with while levelling.

    Not sure if that's any help to you as it's pretty much a 'need more info' type of thing.
  8. Shazril

    Shazril New Cupcake

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    I disagree - I think the problem with that line of thinking is 'only dps can level fast' - so you have to make dps the only option for leveling, otherwise they'll get butt-hurt and be at a disadvantage. It's PVE - there's no advantage/disadvantage if multiple classes and archetypes can level at a similar pace.
  9. Veckna

    Veckna Well-Known Cupcake

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    Some of the 'only dps level fast' might be player mindset. I levelled my priest in WoW as holy from 60-70 and 70-80 and although she couldn't kill things as fast as say, my warlock, she had no downtime due to insane mana regen. My warlock on the other hand used to eat/drink enough to feed a small country (I levelled as destruction spec as I enjoyed it more).

    Similar situation on the warrior levelling as a tank, slightly slower to kill things but almost no downtime compared to my rogue or enhancement shaman (couple of adds = needed a food/bandage break).

    In Wildstar (as with GW2) I would imagine player skill will factor into levelling speed a great deal due to the ability to avoid a lot of the damage/crowd control etc from the telegraph system. Even more so than GW2 with dodging/interrupts and taking on multiple opponents all giving xp rewards in Wildstar instead of just reducing downtimes due to taking less damage.

    Healers/tanks may be able to cope with multiple mobs easier and rack up bonuses to xp that way for example?
    Pure speculation here btw :coffee:
  10. Vossler

    Vossler Cupcake

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    That's what the limited action bars are for though. IF you're the healer then you don't need DPS spells on your bar, so you will still see the roles defined in combat. Yet anytime after combat you can switch it up.
  11. TehTic

    TehTic Cupcake

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    I believe there are loose roles for characters. Reason is one the descriptions of the classes. Two as difficult as the raids are being portrayed I believe there has to be some type of role balancing. Otherwise there would be complete chaos. Though this is all speculation until we actually get some solid data from the developers or first-hand.
  12. Xandita

    Xandita Cupcake

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    I think it can be resolved if most the classes have a sub-spec within their talent trees that allows them to tank or heal, giving dps enough reason to queue as tank or healer. The problem with this, is of course, gear. I'm going to assume that a tank won't wear the same gear as their dps counterpart, so having two sets of gear might become cumbersome and expensive.
  13. Phakz

    Phakz Cupcake-About-Town

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    All I can say is I leveled as a healer twice in SWTOR and I doubt it will take as long in Wildstar as it did in SWTOR lol
  14. Mat'hir Uth Gan

    Mat'hir Uth Gan Cupcake-About-Town

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    Hope there is no Dual Spec. I hate the entire concept of switching between roles. Choose your role at the beginning and master it. I do like having a wide variety of abilities, so that you can put healing spells and buffs up for groups, and can use DPS abilities for other times. If you're a healer of course.

    Everquest 1 did this right. You had your general role, but you had a bazillion spells you could use to adjust to your situation. No class needed dual spec. You just needed to have friends and group up to level.

    I like the fact that in most MMOs, healers and tanks are greatly underpopulated. Those are social classes and in high demand. That's one of the perks of playing one, you get groups easier. The downside is they don't solo efficiently. For me, I don't care. I never want to solo if I can help it unless its crafting or player housing.
  15. Mat'hir Uth Gan

    Mat'hir Uth Gan Cupcake-About-Town

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    Don't like this concept. I HATED Rift because all players could be all things at a moment's notice. There was no class individuality. I play tanks and I play healers. I never DPS. I like being rare. I like being needed. I like being known. That's the general personality for most tanks and healers. If it's as easy as any class being able to tank or heal at any time simply by respec or dual spec, then this game will fail. There has to be some class uniqueness and individuality for the player to feel invested in his character. Not to mention starring in a particular role helps with forming social groups as others star in their roles and interdependency is formed.

    WildStar is absolutely doing some things completely wrong in this regard, but the degree it will harm the game depends on how easy it is to respec, if they will have dual spec, and how permanent and important the skill points are as you level.

    As long as I can be a better tank or healer than some primary DPS class that wants to respec on the fly, than I'll be happy. If I can't, and any DPS can be a superb tank or healer at any time just be respec'ing or hitting their dual spec button, I'll know this game isn't for me.
  16. Chomag

    Chomag Cupcake-About-Town

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    Being able to respec on the fly is not an issue. At end game very few people actually have competitive gear for more than 1 role. Simply respecing from dps to tank while not having any tank gear, isn't going to help at all, an it's very hard for people to acquire more than 1 set of gear and keep it up to date.

    And spec while leveling ?!



    You're only gonna level for 2 weeks or so. I'd much rather have dual spec than not upsetting some guy for 2 weeks.
  17. Bellaby

    Bellaby Well-Known Cupcake

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    I always level as a tank...seems faster to kill all the quest mobs in one pull than goof around killing them one at a time...

    Though IF I end up a healer in this game, I will strongly consider trying DPS levelling, after bad experiences in other games...
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  18. HoneyBadger

    HoneyBadger Cupcake

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    This.
  19. Qcko

    Qcko New Cupcake

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    I found lvling as healer/tank faster than lvling as dps..
  20. Tangoman

    Tangoman New Cupcake

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    Never ever ever found this to be true though in reality, it is easy to chain pull as say healer or tank and just aoe mobs down, or solo 2-3player missions, but the burst damage from dps classes means that (in my experience) you can just tab target and begin anew. Wildstar ofc offers new mechanics from other mmo's with the xp stacking so it may balance out (or even need balancing!)

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