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Leveling Speed and You!

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Drasas, Mar 19, 2013.

  1. Dpz

    Dpz Cupcake

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    I like to level up fast sometimes, but you can usally do that by asking some higher level friend. But as long Questing is fun and done right, then i don't mind it taking longer. It seems Wildstar got enough variation with paths and all that to offer a fresh experience for your alts etc.
  2. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    Completely agree, please bring back normal leveling speeds. Pretty sure it took me about 6 months to level my first toon in wow. It should honestly be slower than that. Vanguard had a great leveling speed as well.

    Do people really get bored and leave a game or something when they are leveling too slow? That is the only reason I can figure that the industry has gone this way.
  3. Zinn

    Zinn Cupcake-About-Town

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    I would love to see the journey come back to leveling. I am just not sure modern gamers will accept it. When I played EQ1 at release it took me 5o+ days played to reach cap. DAOC took 30-40 days played on my 1st char then much faster on my second. Lineage 2 who knows but it took me a crazy amount of time to get to level 60 out of 75. WoW took me 15 days played at release for me but faster for many others. Vanguard took 15-30 days played until SOE took over and you could do it less than week real time. Rift took 2-3 days played at release. Almost everyone I knew in Rift was max within the first week of release. Rift's expansion was even faster. The newer games GW2 and ToR are just as fast. Basically they require no effort. But in the end I guess that it does not matter much as 99% of our time is played at endgame. I understand the developer point of why spend time making great exciting content for leveling when almost everyone will skip it to take the fastest path to max. Its not he devs fault its the players who demand to skip through the leveling process. But I do miss the journey., the struggle, the dependency on friends , the people you would meet in the world and the friendships that would develop.
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  4. Vembumees

    Vembumees Cupcake-About-Town

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    As I consider myself hardcore gamer and mainly in a released game I will focus on PvP or raiding (or both in rare cases, I only like world PvP in mmorpg's, since everything else is too casual/grindy/too easy and if it doesn't offer that, I will most probably just focus on raiding), I mostly just care about leveling up quickly to reach the endgame, don't get me wrong, I also liked WoW in vanilla a lot more due to long leveling, that's where the most things happened, world PvP, dungeon farming and overall, better social experience since leveling was what a lot of people were doing and it was faster and easier in groups (some specs really couldn't solo the game at all).

    The main thing is that a lot of people already have leveled a lot of characters in a lot of games, some more, some less - and mostly it's just the same boring repetative grind in a very similar world in all games. Everyone is tired of having to kill 50 mobs for 4 quests, then turn them in and repeat. I mean, leveling in Rift and TERA was simply an agony to me, even if it was shorter than many other games (and I've played games with quests where you have to grind like 5000 monsters for a quest and every 3rd quest is like that, imagine that). When a game releases, mostly it is ok to stay behind or level with slow pace, because everyone is doing the same, but when you join a game 3 months later, most of the people probably will be joining their friends or for whatever reasons and the leveling is just a tedios task, they care about getting to the same level as their friends to play together with them, not at all about questing.

    Well, as seeing the game at this point, I would actually enjoy leveling in it, seeing how at least one of the areas and quests look like, I would probably much enjoy it. If the game is enjoyable and offers a lot of exploration etc, as I reckon it does as I've seen I would like it to have AT LEAST 2 days of gametime leveling speed (I don't mean this as a casual leveling speed, but more of a speedrun/rush speed) and if it indeed, delivers with the humor as it is advertising, I think people will have a blast doing it and even be surprised. But consider, there will be always a large amount of people who just refuse to enjoy the leveling, whatever you put into it.

    just some ramble from me, nothing in depth ;)
  5. wormed

    wormed Cupcake

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    I hope it's about the speed of vanilla WoW. The problem with games nowadays is it doesn't allow community to grow at certain levels. Tera is a prime example of it. When you are a certain level for a dungeon, there are barely any players to group with since being at the appropriate level for the dungeon can be past within an hour.
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  6. salixfire

    salixfire New Cupcake

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    One thing I have issues with when levelling is how easy it feels. Recent MMOs (Tera, SWTOR, Any recent Expac od WoW etc) have felt so easy. I usually play grouped with my partner and we just wipe through the content. It felt like all we did was: get quest -> walk halfway across the map -> 2 minutes of action -> walk back to questgiver. We were outlevelling our quests, even the yellow and red level quests (WoW) were far too easy and it wasn't satisfying to level and was boring. When I played vanilla WoW it felt harder and more satisfying when you managed to finish an orange quest. We went back to WoW when Cata came out and literally had to tag a huge group of mobs of at least a couple of levels higher than us to feel in any way challenged. Even if they set the time to get to max level at 200+ hours but the combat feels too easy then it'll just feel like a boring grind.

    Watching the TotalBiscuit PAX review it looks far too easy. He lost quite a bit of health when figuring out the system and then only when he wasn't paying attention. The dev (ok has probably played it through loads and so is very skilled) wiped through mobs he said should have murdered him with hardly any loss of life. I know they need to cater to as many people as possible but I don't want to have to rely on dungeons or raids for the challenge. You should have a difficult time with orange level quests, red should be almost/totally impossible soloing, With a group of two orange should only feel a bit easier and red should feel like it's mostly/almost impossible. Hopefully that makes sense.
  7. ChrisJSY

    ChrisJSY New Cupcake

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    Looking back at my pictures for WoW, I took one when I made my character on release and then the moment I hit 60, it took me 46 days but that was slower due to the fact I played with my brother and best friends so we always stayed within 2-3 levels of each other as to not create some power disparity. If I was a solo players I'd just get too far ahead, I spent waaay too much time playing :D

    Before that was Anarchy Online, but this was 12 years ago almost and my memory is a bit fuzzy.
    All I do remember is it took much, much longer (Aside from those people who exploited, ready for this? An exploit where if you all picked a solo mission in a team, then handed it in by standing next to each other at the same time you'd get x6 the amount of completion XP!) Remember this was waaay back it's all fixed now but those people got away with it and still play to this day. The other issue was you didn't have to clear the rooms either, % of completition didn't count, you just had to find an item by running past all the crappy ai, took minutes.

    But it was all new to me, I actually explored, talked to people by meeting up with them in the wild, formed teams, had camping spots for the next 10 or so levels (200 levels max); one of my best friends was found this way and 12 years later we're still playing all these games together, Wildstar too we hope! :)

    There was no exact "teleport to dungeon/area/group finder", people slowly learned about certains places to meet, so if you wanted to find/make a group to level up say at the North West Mines, people would all stand outside the caves and you had pick of the crop. Each city, for example like Orgrimmar had hangout locations before the introduction of auction houses and such. It was all done in game or advertised on the sale forums.

    It bred interaction but even, unfortunately I think Wildstar is going to suffer from ease of access, quick queuing/teleports and such. People will say "don't use it then" but it's hard to do that when everyone else is, people become nameless drones, they may as well be AI at times.

    Very rarely do I come across people who actually read chat in dungeons, talk, banter...etc.
  8. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    I consider myself quite a fast leveler, by no means am I as fast as those grabbing the server firsts, but I'm normally in the top 5-10% of people to hit cap on my server.

    The one exemption to this is my years old Main in WoW. Not only did it take quite a while to hit level cap (and I was but a wee child when I got into that game) in vanilla, but also I was a massive WC fan so the world just drew me in entirely. I remember getting an adrenaline rush the first time I saw and entered Iron forge, I remember buying in to the walls of quest text to really feel like a part of this world and it's struggles.

    Now of course, it's rapidly spam enter, click menu buttons - then use my built in quest helper to tell me exactly where to go and what exactly I've got to do is given in the floating text.

    Full quest descriptions? Ain't nobody got time for that.
  9. Tyden

    Tyden New Cupcake

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    ... What? I know for a fact that I (And many of my guildmates) take the time to actually read the quests we're doing the first time through, and sometimes we even read them again. It's just when you get to, I don't know, your fifty billionth alt in the game that you start saying "Screw this -accept accept accept, turn-in turn-in turn-in."

    At any rate, people do realize that a lot of game developers say they expect players to take a LOT longer to actually get to end-game content, right? TB even mentioned this himself in the PAX video, that how were they going to be able to deal with the fact that, while you might make your leveling so that it's "supposed" to last a couple months, people will be finished within a week or two. I know Rift had this issue -- They had said when the game first came out that they expected players to take two or three months to get to max level, but that people rushed through their content to get to the end.

    Me, personally? It took me about a month and a half to get my first WoW character up to max level at the time -- And I came in at Cata. It took me roughly a month to hit max level in Rift when it first came out. Rift's expansion took me about two weeks. And this is with me putting in a lot of time into the game daily. It's a matter of how fast you chew through the content. I took the time to read through every quest I could, and took time to think about "Wow, this is really cool" and to digest the information that was being given to me. Sadly, not a lot of people play like this anymore, and the developers of WildStar are making sure they get the end-game right so that there ISN'T a lack of content there when people get to max level in a week or two, like what's going to happen.

    Edit: And to add in Guild Wars 2 into this post: It took me a week to hit max level. And that was purely because of the way the quests were presented, in a way that didn't give lore on a regular basis, and it made it ultimately just a big grind without lore outside of the story quests that really, left a lot to be desired in my opinion.
  10. Blankspace

    Blankspace WTB Fun Forum Title

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    I've read a ton of posts here and I think I'm going to say my peace and run away from this thread...

    I want leveling to be hard. I mean stupid hard. Being able to power level to end game before going to sleep is really cool, but why even have leveling, starting zones, and content if you aren't going to design the game to make you check it out as you go.

    I'm sure a bunch of us here have in the past had those expansion where we had the energy drinks, food prepared in tupperware, and vacation time spent to rock those 20 hour gaming sessions for a few days just to hit max level asap.

    With Tera I am pretty sure I could sit down and level from 1-max in just under 2 days if I wanted to put that effort into doing it. Sadly I am not that interested :p

    GW2 was Dolyax grinding and crafting. 3 days maybe to max level?

    1 month to max level at a hardcore pace would be just.... heavenly!:eek::up::ninja:
  11. Malorak

    Malorak Cupcake-About-Town

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    This is a double edged sword.

    On one hand: I love leveling. In WoW (and like 99% of all games ever) I love the sense of progress in any way of execution. I love getting better gear (eldergame has that, too obviously.), getting a better player, overcoming a hard obstacle like a dungeon Boss or a hard quest, and I love exploring.
    I especially love to craft myself gear and see how awesome that one chestplate or weapon I just created is, and then go whack something with it. So much awesome stuff.

    Leveling is an awesome and fun time in alot of MMO's...

    But geez, this game's eldergame looks FRIGGIN' AMAZING!

    You have DOOM CASTLES OF MASSIVE DESTRUCTION™ which you can fight with against other groups, you have 40 and 20 man raids, the circuit board crafting and whole theorycrafting aspects of the game are now more important since you will progress not by leveling but by Gear.

    I want all of this. I really hope leveling does take some time, since paths seem cool and I want to enjoy those, too, but like I said - I want both.

    Have a great day everyone, you got me more stoked about this game - as always.

    €:
    We already have 40 man raids...So go ahead!
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  12. Pixie

    Pixie Cupcake-About-Town

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    I prefer levelling to take a while,

    The problem is filling all that while with meaningful content.

    Stuff like reaching max level by crafting a lot irritates me, especially because it is hard to change some people's philosophy about reaching the end-game being the end.

    I also prefer a levelling curve where the first 5-10 levels are quick-ish, so you have some skills on your bar within too long, and that the later levels are longer. Not necessarily soul-gratingly much longer, but longer.

    I hope it takes first person at least close to a week to reach max level, it's always sad to hear when people do it in 48 hours...

    But the thing that really stood out to me while reading this thread is how much I miss actually working for something else than the max level - while levelling!

    When you level up and all you're focused on is getting there, nothing else requiring your attention like gear upgrades or achievements etc, it becomes almost mind-numbing, and reaching the end-game becomes an anti-climax.

    It's kind of like with school, if you don't get some practical experience in, well, freedom and stuff, before you're done, you'll graduate and not know what to do. If you reach the max level without having experienced other aspects of playing the game, you won't know what to occupy yourself with when you reach your goal. There will be this massive buffet of options for you to enjoy, but you never took a break from levelling, so you don't even know what to do with the buffet, you just feel done.
  13. kiri

    kiri Cupcake-About-Town

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    Totally agree.

    Vanilla wow really hit a sweet spot there - it wasn't ridiculously long like first-gen mmos, but it was long enough that things felt like an accomplishment. Hitting 60 was a big deal! Hell even hitting 40 was a big deal! I remember being so freaking happy when I hit 40 and got my first mount, I rode up and down stranglethorn vale for like an hour just feeling like a badass. Getting that blue item from a dungeon actually mattered because it was a great upgrade and you'd use it for a while.

    And it wasn't just about speed, it was also about challenge. Some quests were really hard. You died a lot. You needed to find people to do those group quests because that XP really mattered. Remember when quest objectives weren't labeled on your map and you had to actually read the quest to figure out wtf you were supposed to do? Sometimes it was a PITA but it was mostly a lot of fun.

    Now things are so fast, there isn't any point in trying to stop and smell the roses. You almost feel more obligated to just hurry up and get it out of the way (making it even faster!) When it took a while, the whole process felt more natural, not just a rush to level cap.
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  14. Críostóir

    Críostóir Cupcake-About-Town

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    I don't mind it taking a long time to reach max level, so long as there is constant, fresh content along the way. What I have hated in the past is getting stuck in limbo, when you're too low to move into "the next zone," but you've already exhausted your options to do anything but grind.

    I'm one who can get engrossed in the story though too, and in SWTOR I felt like I was having the opposite issue. I'd completely out level a given planet, but be stuck with a large amount of green quests left in my log (quests which advanced the planet's story line, but not necessarily your own). That was partly "my fault" also, for constantly queuing for PvP while leveling, but still it was annoying.

    That being said, I usually feel quite different on my Alt(s). After "seeing it all" one time around, I do understand why people want to blow through it and get back to max level.
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  15. Malorak

    Malorak Cupcake-About-Town

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    I loved every 10 levels and these were my goals - every 10 levels you got something awesome!

    Like...Become level 10? Talent trees are available and most classes get cool abilities like Frostnova etc.

    20? More awesome abilities!

    30? Only 10 more levels to go and more cool key abilities. Berserker stance! Neat! Also: Stranglethorn. YUS.

    40? MOUNTS! New armor class! New awesome abilities!

    50? ...Well...Uh...Okay I got nothin'.

    60? Finally, your Journey has reached a point in which this number doesn't need to increase yet you still feel accomplished just by gear and you gain so many awesome abilities! Also: MY MOUNT COSTS 1000GOLD? WHAT
    ...When you had that, you were a boss. I wasn't, sadly. I did purchase it for 600, though.

    Also: The dungeons were tons of fun! They weren't challenging because of hard bosses but much rather enjoyable since they're small caves and small threats you're defeating, like wailing caverns or - my favorite low level dungeon next to Deadmines - Blackfathom deeps.

    They had hard trash packs but much more important - awesome design. A huge hydra as final boss? Awesome! Why did I just recieve a Katana which poisons enemies by knocking its head off? I couldn't care less!

    I love low level and it's such an amazing journey you can look back at if the game did it right. I'll remember to take a screenshot every now and then when I do something and later on do a "Wildstar - the Journey" video on Youtube...If the game's as cool as I make it out to be.
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  16. Ravensfrost

    Ravensfrost New Cupcake

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    I completely agree with this. I find the speed of leveling less important that the quality of gaming experience. I like doing all the quests as I play more for the story and experience that just to eat through levels but tend to find that most modern Mmorpg's have the problem that I out level the quests too fast even without doing anything other than the quests. I also miss the days when a high level spawned on you or you drew that extra mob and the rush of panic as you wondered if you could survive. If the critter is higher level compared to you then I want it to be hard to solo. I miss the rush you get after defeating a creature too high level simply because you were just lucky or skilled enough.

    Leveling speed doesn't truly bother me unless it outstrips the level of quests.
  17. Zybak

    Zybak Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm a rusher (especially on my first character) I play an ungodly amount of hours when an MMO launches to get to max level, then start working on gear ect. to get a competitive edge on everyone else. Once that's done I go back and start doing EVERYTHING. I do all the quests, complete the map, max professions out ect.

    On my alts I take my time, read the quests and take in everything fully.

    With that being said, I do this gaming stuff as my job so I'm a bit obsessed.
  18. B00TE

    B00TE Cupcake-About-Town

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    I prefer it if the journey to endgame is as enjoyable as the endgame content itself. Makes it easier to want to make alts and start a new journey up the ladder.

    It's hard to find a sweet spot for what's good and capable of bringing that about though. I'm a rusher myself, as I want to reach that next level of power but anything that can make me stop and smell the roses on the way is welcome.
  19. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    Not quite sure what you're arguing against here? There's no judgement for any type of leveling style, everyone should play their own way - a good friend of mine never levels one char at a time and prefers to level 4-5 asynchronously.

    A leveling time of a month and a half for cata would be considered quite slow, I've done it in a week and a half with all the faster content and I know of other people playing normally have done it in two-three, that's with full time jerbs and normal life commitments.

    Again though to reiterate, there's no judgement for leveling slowly, people should get from the game what they want to get, in much the same way that there's nothing wrong in absolutely blasting the leveling process in order to get into raiding if that's what you love.
  20. Sevvy

    Sevvy Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'll play fast and hard when I get the game. But I don't mind leveling taking weeks, even a month plus. It has to be fun almost the whole time. Granted, running into a few lulls or tedious quests/areas is fine. But if the leveling process isn't fun... music/headphones/caffeine.... GRIND!

    I'd rather not have to do that. I'd rather feel like I want to do quests and join the public quests and stuff. And I'm hoping the class I pick is fun, the new mechanics for the telegraphed stuff keeps me engaged, and the world, lore, creatures, stories, etc. keep me interested.

    I'm very picky. Sometimes story is cool. But if even a part of it becomes annoying to me, I'll scrap it all and just go hardcore mode and not care about anything else. I'm probably the kind of player that is a developer's nightmare at times. I'm a pain in the ass!

    And if I'm in a hardcore-ish guild to start, I'll probably feel a lot more pressure to up my game and hit elder game quicker. /shrug

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