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Leveling Speed and You!

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Drasas, Mar 19, 2013.

  1. Ninereeds

    Ninereeds Cupcake-About-Town

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    Just my two cents on the leveling/end game content debate going on.

    It seems most people are looking at Vanilla WoW as a good model to look to for leveling, and I agree with that. When you first get the game you need to have something to do and that something has to last you quite a while, so the leveling is important. This really only holds at the beginning of the MMOs life though. WoW has become a faceroll, but that's because all of the new content is exclusively at the end game. New Raids, new dungeons, new items, new collectables, all end game. They recognize that at this point, after being out for 10 years, they have their customers already, they aren't adding new people to the game, they are catering to who is there. And the players that are there have leveled already, now they are leveling alts and it has just become a grind to them now. So they look at how to make that easy so they get alts to that level cap and can start doing the end game.

    The problem is basically WoW found it easier to add to and change the end game instead of keeping the leveling relevent and interesting. The world reset in Cata was a good start but they didn't change enough. Killing 10 rats vs 10 murloc is still killing 10 mobs, there's no variety.

    I think Carbine has found a good way to keep leveling interesting with the path system. The thought of being able to level a Spellslinger as a Soldier, and then a Spellslinger as an Explorer and get different quests and a different leveling experience I think will keep much of the gameplay fresh for those wanting to level.

    As for myself I like the journey of the character and enjoy the leveling, my ideal is to spend hundreds of hours and work hard towards a max level so when I finally reach it I feel like it was a huge adventure and worth the trip in itself. So I take my time with things and enjoy it, and I'm hoping there will be enough to make me want to play through it again and again, so far from what I've seen that variety will be there.
  2. Calsic

    Calsic Cupcake-About-Town

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    A pet peeve of mine is how MMOs seem to keep increasing the leveling speed as the game ages. It kills replayability for me. Old content would stay relevant for alts if they didn't keep messing with the difficulty and speed of leveling.

    But I realize some people just can't stand leveling and can barely tolerate it on their first character, let alone doing it again on an alt. I wish that we could have the option when rolling an alt, of a normal leveling pace, or a rushed one.
  3. shadowclasper

    shadowclasper Cupcake-About-Town

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    I have to agree, MMOs are more about the journey than the destination for everyone who isn't a raider. And you know what? They have guilds to help power them through the content if they want to level an alt for raiding.
  4. Psistorm

    Psistorm Cupcake-About-Town

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    Leveling fast versus slow, as well as the role of gear in games can be viewed from both sides. Let me just list the pros and cons of slow leveling and other mechanics as I see them.

    Slow leveling, aka a month or more to cap:
    Pros:
    - getting to cap actually means something, you feel accomplished that you made it
    - a lot of content to go through, making for an interesting journey
    - gear means something. Upgrades can last longer, and significant upgrades can last significantly longer, making it worth to pursue them
    - dungeons are worth running multiple times, because you don't have to fear outleveling them
    - crafting is easier to keep up with

    Cons:
    - content needs to be sped up once expansions come out, else the player base stretches thin as less people play
    - long leveling times means lots of work content wise, if you want to avoid stretching it needlessly or making people grind
    - once the game is older, it feels emptier because less people are in a given stretch of the game
    - you might need to stop leveling to catch up on crafting. which is okay if the crafting system is full featured, but annoying if it is only another progression tool you are expected to max out (WoW)


    Focusing content more on groups rather than solo players also is a bad idea nowadays. I remember coming across a game that required a group to get out of the tutorial area. except there was no other player around to group with, so I quit after waiting quite a while, being unable to progress by any means.
    Now, content that scales to the amount of players in the area (gw2) is a nice thing. It encourages and enables group play, at the same time, if you can only play during the off-hours or come in later to the party when the game is say, a year old, you won't get punished for that by being locked out of content.
    After all, group content only works if there are enough players to form a group with (I'm looking at you, SWTOR, textbook example for grouping done wrong).

    And here is to hoping it doesn't blow up my formatting. For some reason the forum quick reply eats my paragraphs.
  5. Shaigh

    Shaigh Cupcake

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    It can take whatever time it takes as long as levelling is fun and original. The problem is that after a while levelling gets hopelessly repetitive no matter how original it felt during the first 30 levels and that's when I wish to reach the group-centric endgame.

    As far as my own levelling speed goes, I had the second highest levelled character on my original MUD. I had never played an MMO before WoW but I still was first alliance warrior on my server to reach cap. I reached level cap in warhammer, rift, swtor and tera online within two weeks.

    My goal has never been to reach cap fast, but when I am having fun it just happens by itself.
  6. Poet

    Poet Cupcake

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    If the journey is fun it could take 100000000000 hours and I would be happy.

    Nothing drives me more crazy then having a full list of things to do and they are all gray'd out because I have out leveled them. I love to see all the quests and all the dungeons and all the heroic quests etc...the Devs put a ton of work into the game and I would love to do them as intended and not resist all the damage because I am 10 levels too high.
  7. salixfire

    salixfire New Cupcake

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    I tend to either play with my partner or solo in MMOs as I'm not a particularly social person and find random grouping annoying for the most part which is why I don't think that they should focus on grouping rather than soloing (dungeons and world bosses etc are there for the groups) in standard levelling quests. What I'm looking for is more the feeling you got when fighting and levelling, that it was challenging and felt like you actually accomplished something. Speed of levelling is less of an issue for me, though I would prefer it to not be too quick. It's more the case that if you are fighting a critter that is 2 levels higher than yourself it should be be hard to win solo. If I'm grouped with my partner we shouldn't completely breeze through orange and red level quests even if they are solo quests. Now if I was in a full party then an orange level solo quest should be easy just due to sheer numbers in relation to what is expected. Well that's my opinion anyway...
  8. Kalmander

    Kalmander Well-Known Cupcake

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    I kind of have to disagree here. The leveling speed by itself does not mean much, and it is not a prime parameter they should set. It should be set according to the content, and fun expected in the game. If the game has enough content to give us leveling content for 2 months, then 2 months is fine for leveling. If we only have 2 weeks worth of content, then 2 weeks is fine. I would like Carbine to avoid setting up arbitrary leveling times simply to comply with X or Y set time. I would not like to take 2 months to level a character if I only have 2 weeks worth of leveling content :S That would get boring real quick...
    Eliat_kuni likes this.
  9. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    The main problem is that leveling has become an exceedingly stagnant system in terms of game design across pretty much all MMOs. If devs want folks to spend a lot of time leveling, then they need to treat the leveling process as an "endgame" in and of itself. It deserves as much attention an innovation as "endgame". Make it fun and engaging and variable and people will want to spend time doing it. But the questhub/breadcrumb kill X mobs and bring me their hides leveling is arguably not any of those things.
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  10. Poet

    Poet Cupcake

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    I agree which is why it always comes down to fun i just think it is a huge missed opportunity by rushing the leveling process.

    If there were epic quest archs that made me cross the world to complete I think I would love that and it would make leveling amazing. But Hub A to Hub B definitely no need to change the pace I can kill ten baddies for you now worries, just get me to endgame ASAP.
  11. BestWurstinTown

    BestWurstinTown New Cupcake

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    I dunno...somehow I have such high hopes in this game that I also predict being hardcore for a bit when it finally comes out - ergo powerleveling my toon so I could be one of the first at cap and explore more secrets, build an amazing house with lots of cool stuff (and subsequently open it to the public to brag xD) and try the elder content while maybe even leveling an alt already xD

    I remember in Swtor I powerlvld my Sith Marauder and was kind of underwhelmed by both the story (KILL EVERYONE coz you bein BAAAAAD) and the gameplay so I lvld an Imperial Agent (ops) and when that was maxed I rerolled yet again to a Sith Sorcerer for PvE...it was way hardcore and I'm not really as proud of it as I make it sound...but it was still fun in a way because I already had 3 chars at maxlvl while other ppl were still struggling with their first toon (or just taking their time I know - not everyone can do "no-life mode" like I did back then, hell even I can't do that stuff anymore xD)...still I felt powerful which is something lots of MMOs forget about...

    But having tried tons of Asian Grind MMOs over the years I seriously hope that if leveling takes a long time it does so for a good reason (great content, fun leveling etc.) because just making it ultra long so you have more time to get your later content fixed is a terrible idea...
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  12. hoss87

    hoss87 New Cupcake

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    When starting a new MMO I always plan to take it slow, but somehow I just find myself rushing the content to see the biggest and bestest things of the endgame content. Maybe on a subconscious level I feel the journey starts at the endgame, which on a rational level I know to be wrong. I just can't help it I guess :D
  13. Poet

    Poet Cupcake

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    [quote="BestWurstinTown, post: 48332, member: 3789"

    But having tried tons of Asian Grind MMOs over the years I seriously hope that if leveling takes a long time it does so for a good reason (great content, fun leveling etc.) because just making it ultra long so you have more time to get your later content fixed is a terrible idea...[/quote]


    Only way it is acceptable IMHO! long leveling just to say it takes 400 hours to max is NOT a good idea!
  14. Elthic

    Elthic Cupcake-About-Town

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    Leveling should definitely take some time to complete, and at the end of it you should feel like you have completed a huge objective in the game. There should also be a feeling of achievement throughout the leveling process.

    For example, like another poster said in this thread, their character unlocked class changing abilities every 10 levels or so, or they unlock a mount. Things like that make leveling feel like are advancing a character, and not just adding stats points, or getting a bigger number next to your name. However, in order for mini achievements in the leveling process to feel like you are advancing your character, it needs to take some time, and work for you to really appreciate them.

    As for the quests themselves being fun, I guess for me personally, I don't mind the kill 10 rat quests or gather 10 bear skin quests, as long as the combat itself is engaging. That is where I think Wildstar will really shine because the you ave to dodge the telegraphs, and you are rewarded additionally for doing so. However they are gonna have to change it up sometime, and get some really cool quests in there, like the exploding rhino quest they keep showing off.

    For me personally, the more, and more I keep following this game I see many similarities with vanilla wow, and a game similar to that is what I want to play. Obviously, Wildstar has many differences, but I think leveling will be something Carbine will again take a note from vanilla wow.
  15. Zapp Brannigan

    Zapp Brannigan Cupcake-About-Town

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    So long as levelling is fun, I don't mind how long it takes. As someone who only started playing MMOs towards the end of TBC, you could say that I'm very much a part of the 'instant gratification' crowd, though I'd welcome a step back to when things were more difficult, if only so I can experience it first hand.

    The main problem really comes down to grind. I don't think Carbine will have an issue with that, western MMOs seem to be doing a good job avoiding boring grinds (key word boring); so long as it's interesting and keeps me entertained, I wouldn't care if it took 1, 000 hours to hit the level cap (though at that pace there would be 'feeling of progression' issues, so I don't expect WildStar to take exuberant amounts of time with its 60 levels).
  16. Narthen

    Narthen Cupcake

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    Agreed. I don't care how long the journey takes as long as the trip is enjoyable. My wife and I have been playing MMO's together for years and always seem to advance much slower than most of the people we play with, but that's kind of by design. Not a big fan of jumping into a new game to power level just to be the first to be max level. No fun in that for me. we like to explore and see what the game has to offer. End game stuff will always be there, as long as we feel like we are progressing while we level then its all good for me.
  17. Scoriae

    Scoriae Cupcake

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    IMO, 250+ hours from 1 to cap is a pretty good start. Heck, that's even a little fast for me, but then again I am a classic EQ player at heart. Lol.

    Edit: I'd settle for 200 at a minimum, though.
  18. Primalthirst

    Primalthirst Cupcake

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    Leveling is just another form of torture.
    Developer releases a new game and says 'We have all these cool raids, dungeons, arenas, battlegrounds, ailities etc, but sorry you have to spend 200 hours before you can do most of them, too bad.'

    I play MMOs for large-scale group combat with friends, not to throw grenades at a pack of monkeys or deliver a package to npc quest hub #3, if I wanted to do that there are plenty of single player RPGs.

    I will most likely enjoy my first character's leveling experience in Wildstar, but it has to compete with end-game content in other MMOs where I can do the things I enjoy. Leveling is an important process in a new game, but if I've done it once then I know it. I'm the sort of person who can play any class at a very high level in a few hours, it doesn't take me 200+ to learn. Forcing a long leveling experience on me, especially for alts is just going to annoy me since the vast majority of the time I'm not learning anything new or gaining something, I'm killing 7 rats.
  19. Poet

    Poet Cupcake

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    I think this is a good point. Maybe if the devs could do a scaling raid set that you can "raid" and would allow you to get appropriate gear with as many friends as possible during the leveling process. I just think that the leveling process is just a rush to the top now a days which is a shame since the Devs put a lot of work into the zones quests 5 mans etc and i want to do them all at the right level and i just seem to always out pace them due to leveling speeds. I think GW2 did some good with the zone downscaling in this regard and even though you gear makes you stronger it is not one shot kills on grays.

    Totally agree with you on the ALT side of things... They should do something along the lines of the SWTOR legacy system where you can unlock leveling speed boosts for subsequent characters if you so choose.
  20. Plix

    Plix New Cupcake

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    When it comes to my own character, i don't really mind how long it takes, i enjoy lvling.
    But i think that the longer it takes to hit max, the bigger will the gap between "hardcore" and "casual" players be.
    When it come to progress pve.
    Pvp-gear... i know we all love to meet those with alot more sparetime than us, who have hit max alot quicker, and started farming pvp gear earlier than us.
    Crafting, and housing, which will affect economy.

    Ofc they need people to play with to do instances, and people to play against to farm pvp gear, and the economy will take a while to settle, but still...

    I was in guild with the first in EU to hit 50 in swtor, he was the first one to quit the game in my guild aswell.
    He pugged the flashpoints, to get them done, so when the rest of the guild hit 50, he sat waiting.
    He just got too bored of the waiting, poor lad ;)

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