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Leveling too fast in Wildstar?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Pumba2988, Dec 26, 2013.

  1. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    Q - While endgame is important, I am a big fan of games with a sense of journey and adventure. While in WoW there was initially a sense of journey, leveling content has been sped up so much that it feels like a blur and nothing more than a race to max. What are your thoughts concerning the journey experienced while leveling?


    Frost -
    This is fairly recent where he again re-affirmed that this isn't going to be speed leveling to endgame. If you are a person that has experience in rushing MMO's then I'm sure you will do so here too, but they aren't tailoring the leveling game around boosting people.
    Sapien and Mac like this.
  2. Drokk

    Drokk Cupcake-About-Town

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    I recall BioWare devs saying the same thing before TOR release. They -drastically- underestimated how quickly people would hit end-game. It bit them in the ass, and they've admitted it. I hope Frost is right, but developers have been wrong about such things. Also, him saying 'the average gamer' can be misleading. I'd rather know how fast the red bull freak playing 24/7 can hit 50. Those are the players they need to be worried about. People don't quit because leveling is too slow, but people who rush to end-game and have little to nothing to do will quit. And they'll create a bad image of the game as well. You need to slow them down.
  3. eharper256

    eharper256 Cupcake-About-Town

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    I recall them saying somewhere that so far in beta tests, only 1 guy had actually made it to level-cap (of 35) and that was fairly encouraging, though they also said it may have been due to lack of motivation (since 35 =/= proper endgame content). At least they've already considered it.
  4. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    I wouldn't go that far. There are all sorts of players who quit because getting to endgame takes forever. I would have to dig it up but Blizzard showed the drop off rate when players quit I believe from Vanilla and there were clear points in the 37-39 range where players just flat stopped playing and never returned for example. I get your point, and I semi agree with you, but how quickly those players get to endgame isn't that big a deal as long as they have stuff to do once they get there. That is where the "grind" needs to start.

    That was right after a wipe, I would be exceedingly surprised if that hasn't changed by now.
  5. spihler

    spihler Cupcake

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    Most people do quit for many reasons uncluding boring hours of leveling.
    Long time to reach max level is rather a bad quality for many people:
    - 100 hours of pure fun are much better than 100 + 100+ hours of bad content.
    The SWTOR class missions and flashpoints are worth my time but the rest is not.
    - Level-up content is not end game or long term content for many.
  6. Pascal

    Pascal New Cupcake

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    Honestly compared to when I played EQ and FFXI all this is to fast in leveling, but I do not actually mind. It is just the direction a MMO goes. As long as I do not hit the cap in 1 day like you can do with WoW expansions I think I will be okay with the leveling pace as it is.
  7. Drokk

    Drokk Cupcake-About-Town

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    I was watching a streamer yesterday who said he had already gotten and deleted many characters to 35. It's not rare.
    I don't agree. I don't know anyone who's quit an mmo for having too slow a leveling experience. Definitely not at launch time. I'm not sure what you mean by 'boring hours of leveling'. If your argument for fast leveling is that doing quests is boring...not sure what to say. Some people will find it boring, others won't. If I was a developer I wouldn't speed up the leveling process on the assumption players hate questing. I would want to make the experience fun, and have players desire to slow down and smell the flowers.

    But anyway, just from watching streams the last few days it seems way too fast for my liking. I see streamers make a new character in the morning, and I come back at night and they're hitting the 15 cap. Yeah, that's early level and maybe it slows down significantly in later levels...but I'm not getting that impression.

    p.s. - I'm watching Towelliee stream questing in vanilla Wow right now. It's rather interesting.
    Nevermind, Blizzard shut it down. Blizzard: 'Don't show the world how awesome our game used to be.'
  8. spihler

    spihler Cupcake

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    I do NOT mean that questing in general is boring; although pure PvP players think so.
    I meant that quantity does not replace quality.
    Time to play and thousands of quests are not a quality factor by itself for many people.
    The game does not become better when time is spent with boring quests (the SWTOR quests actually kill the atmosphere by being an errand boy for anybody), random kill/gather X bonus stuff, fighting mobs all 20 meters and much running and loading.
    A tiny inventory and rare market and post stations are also often used to force player to loose time by running around.
    I hope that wildstar does not introduce cheap quests (written in 5 minutes) and artificial timesinks to stretch time or make players pay real money to avoid it.

    PS.
    http://www.reddit.com/r/WildStar/comments/1vbpx4/compiled_qa_with_stephan_frost_from_mmorpgcom/
    Stephan Frost said that:
    Regarding time estimates, the average person can probably get to level cap in about 150-200 hours. That's not including stuff like Tradeskills, Housing, PvP, Dungeons, Ship Hand Missions, etc. We've worked extremely (excessively?) hard to make sure that this game has something for everyone, and it's a fun experience throughout the leveling AND elder game.
  9. Felion

    Felion Cupcake-About-Town

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    I know many, many people who have quit an mmo for this reason, myself included. Again, you probably haven't played the grind-fest mmos of the early days. Granted, probably not at launch, but if you don't see the light at the end of the other tunnel by 1 month play and you're a red bull rusher, the game significantly diminishes in appeal.

    Leveling for something like 6 month is going to be a big turn off for quite some people, especially if they really tried to level faster but it just doesn't happen. It's called a grind-fest, when similar things are repeated too much, people get bored. The determining factor lies in the word "similar" and the word "too much", those are both subjective, and varies from person to person. But across a big population, you can plot out a curve and find the optimal time. Unless they fill up the questing contents with so many vastly different things, it's going to be hard to justify more than an average of 2 months of leveling time given the population today. Doing similar quests over and over for 6 month is going to kill off quite some people with a bad taste in their mouth. Now you may say, well make new and interesting contents for questing then! But solo play design is very inefficient for an mmo, especially if you have to make them vary a lot.
  10. Drokk

    Drokk Cupcake-About-Town

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    A power leveler not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel after a month is certainly not what I'm talking about. I'd just rather it take the fastest levelers 2-3 weeks to hit end-game, rather than 2-3 days.

    And keep in mind Carbine can always speed up the leveling process at some future time. They can't ever slow it down again...players wouldn't stand for that.
  11. Felion

    Felion Cupcake-About-Town

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    That sounds about right, power leveling taking 2-3 weeks would be most ideal, enough immersion time but visibly progressing. As long as you're not talking about 2-3 months lol, I'd die from caffeine intoxication by that time...
  12. calebrus

    calebrus Cupcake-About-Town

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    I agree. More than a couple of weeks, but less than a couple of months. That sounds reasonable for power leveling for a first character.
    Notice I said for a first character.
    I'm hard pressed to put an actual time in hours played on it though. Let's hypothetically say an average of 2.5 hours a day five times per week, and figure that puts us at 15 hours per week. Eight weeks like that gives us 120 hours, which is similar to what was stated. I'm OK with that.
    Take that same 120 hours and split it over ten hour play sessions and you're left with about twelve days of play to cap.

    I'm a "smell the roses and take in the scenery" kind of player, and I wouldn't mind if it personally took me a fair bit longer on my first play through, but I definitely wouldn't want to do it on every character. Knowing the content and how to speed up the process will only help to a certain point.
  13. Drokk

    Drokk Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm a bit torn on the whole 'leveling alts' situation. I can understand not wanting to do the same questing experience over and over and over. Obviously combat is different with each class, but how much beyond that? Well, there are paths. There's two factions, and I'm not sure how much the quests overlap. Still, inherently you'll level later characters quicker. You know the quests, you know the world, you have funds to supply yourself, friends to help you out, etc, etc. But I don't mind things like 'heirloom gear' that offer exp boosts (though they do wreck low level bgs and make dungeons trivial). Maybe make them unequipable in those instances. Beyond that it's just kind of part of playing an mmo.
    calebrus likes this.
  14. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Average player plays ~20 hours per week.

    Look at the sheer number of zones. To think there won't be overlap between them if for no other reason than because if you don't like a zone you won't be stuck there is preposterous. If you want a mostly different 2nd play through it will be available.
  15. calebrus

    calebrus Cupcake-About-Town

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    As am I, which was my apparently unclear point.
    I like when it takes a bit of time, but if it takes too much time then alts become a massive grind filled chore. There's a very fine line needed. If that line is missed, either I'll think that the initial leveling is too fast, or I'll think that alt leveling feels way too slow.
    It's not an easy one to get right, and to be honest I have yet to see a game hit a mark where I was happy on both ends.

    I think the closest that I've found would have been DDO. Leveling a first character took a decent bit of time, but leveling an alt didn't feel like a huge chore until you were on your fourth or fifth character.
    Then True Res entered the picture and ruined it all, turning everything into a huge grind to cap, repeatedly, with the same character over and over. That's when I left.
  16. jetah

    jetah Cupcake

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    Taking 2 weeks on the main I wouldnt worry about. However if I want to raid on 3 toons and it takes 2 weeks for each, then no. Give me some +exp gear so I can get to raids.
  17. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Assuming they want to encourage people raiding on 3 characters. I for one hope for the days of "main" and "alt" actually being things instead of people saying asinine things like "I have 3 mains!" like you see out of current WoW and the like.
  18. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    Good luck finding a guild for either size that will allow you to raid on 3 toons, and very doubtful that a group of alts would make it past the first boss anyway.
  19. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    You have nothing to base that on unless you are part of the semi mythical raid invite group.
  20. calebrus

    calebrus Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yeah, I don't nkow where that comment came from.
    I've played games where I had a dozen toons at cap that raided regularly. Timers, backup toons in case we really couldn't find a healer, etc. Granted, I prefered playing three or four of them and the rest only existed for those other circumstances, but still, they existed and were used.
    Hell, guildies that only had one or two toons often couldn't raid with the guild unless it was a scheduled run, because either they were on timer when we wanted to raid, or they were off doing something else when the raid was getting gathered.
    The improptu runs (which most were) were almost always a no-go for those players. And even the scheduled runs weren't likely to see those players present because the rest of the guildies that ran together more often usually signed up first.
    If you only had one or two toons at cap then you usually ended up pugging more than raiding with the guild.

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