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Leveling

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Texer, May 22, 2013.

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How do you prefer leveling?

  1. Very fast.

    9 vote(s)
    3.8%
  2. Fast.

    48 vote(s)
    20.5%
  3. Slow.

    125 vote(s)
    53.4%
  4. Very Slowly.

    26 vote(s)
    11.1%
  5. I Don't Care At all!

    26 vote(s)
    11.1%
  1. Gronky

    Gronky Cupcake-About-Town

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    They've mentioned that grinding will somewhat touch those players who plays every day for many hours. But those who don't will get huge resting XP which will almost level the field. They had their reasoning behind it, I just don't remember what exactly.
  2. monko

    monko Cupcake

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    One of the various array of notable achievements from back in Vanilla and Burning Crusade was hitting level cap. It was a pain in the ass but paid off in the long-run. I would love a grind for leveling, it basically filters out the good from the bad whilst simultaneously offering a challenge to the hardcore.

    I'm not talking about Lineage 2 hardcore, I just don't want to hear about a world-first level cap for at least a week or two.
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  3. Gronky

    Gronky Cupcake-About-Town

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    Carbine don't like grind and I agree. I would rather XP didn't come from killing monsters at all but only from finishing quests which should not be repetitive (Carbine don't want those as well). But it's just me. When I level cap I will do achievements and get in game collectables and raid and alting and level cap solo content (new in W*). This is more in line of what should players be doing after reaching the cap. Grinding is too old school and should be avoided as it means that there is just not enough content. Also I believe that if we happen to get xp from crafting and other activities which we can do while leveling then those who want to do them won't have to grind but those who don't may need to grind a little. Anyway, if for sake of argument ,we say that it will take 200 hours to level (as they kind of claimed), I'd rather not have to grind half of that time. Also there is a very nice fix to most of the people problems, one which is spreading in the forums. It has to do with different type of servers. In this case we could have servers called "fast leveling" and "slow leveling" with tweaks done to them ;)
  4. FerretParade

    FerretParade New Cupcake

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    Really the pace should be that people that play around 25 hours a week have time to cap, raid, craft within a 6 month period. By 6 to 8 months a new expansion or dlc adding levels or content should be out.
  5. MMOPapa

    MMOPapa Cupcake-About-Town

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    Alright, watched the video... he said 'hours of content' not necessarily hours of leveling content. So we're good still. :)
  6. _decayed

    _decayed New Cupcake

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    You're correct. He said dungeons and raids. I assumed that paths were part of what was not included, but perhaps he was including it in his 200+ hour number.

    I hope that, by this point, MMO developers have learned how to pace leveling better. I agree with you that some areas could be painful When I leveled my first alt in TBC, I remember that I couldn't wait to hit 58 because I didn't want to have to go to Silithius or EPL. I expect the experience to be challenging and fluid, and hopefully it won't have any of those zones that make you sick to your stomach just thinking about them.
  7. kur1

    kur1 Cupcake-About-Town

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    You're going to be disappointed if you're hoping for 1-2 weeks until the first 'ding'. Manaflask did a great column here about how MMO gamers screwed themselves with how intense raiding schedules have gotten. If it applies to raids, you can bet it applies to leveling.


    150-200 hours should be the time to level for an average-case player. It'd stand to reason that powerlevelers and the extremely hardcore will probaby be able to cut 50-75% off that time by exploiting XP mob farms, group quest XP, rare high-XP spawns, dungeon spamming, tradeskill spamming (if tradeskills have XP), etc. People will break the system to get an edge, and the only way to limit these people is to limit the amount of EXP they can gain per hour so it meets your 150-200 hour design ideal. But is that something WS would even want to do?

    Hitting level cap slowly during Vanilla due to a lack of community knowledge regarding quest information (I personally didn't learn Thottbot even existed until late-40's, a good while after release). The genre was expanding at the time, and most people didn't know if the game's beef was supposed to be in its leveling, endgame, or elsewhere (so it didn't feel as penalizing being below level cap). XP and quests were tuned inefficiently- many parts in Vanilla required you to grind mobs or travel across continents to do at-level content. That got fixed in later expansions.

    I hit TBC's level cap 2 days after most of my guild, and the fastest did it in 3 days. I don't recall this "slow leveling" era, although I was excited to hit level cap. But again, it was a very different time and the genre was still developing.

    A grind- to me- is designing content asking "can this person withstand a pointless, non-challenging, monotonous task for long hours to make up for lacking content in our game?" It's not some rite of passage, it's you being tolerant enough to trudge through a poorly-designed game that explicitly put things into a game that are boring and repetitive. Raids are fun because they're tuned and challenging (and you get end-game optimal drops). PVP is fun because it's pitting you against human opponents who can out-think/out-play you. Grinding (especially outside instanced content) is not any of these things.

    You're not hardcore if you grind- you just have a lot of time and a high tolerance for boringness. That shouldn't be the determinant of who makes endgame. Good lord, please no.

    There are certain words that turn even stalwart MMO supporters away from games, and most are attached to the word "grind".
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  8. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    I agree that it will take the "average" player 150+ hours to level, and that only a small percentage of "zerg" players will shave some time off of that total.
    If we were going to do the vanilla quests today, then sure, with all the additional knowledge of websites and how to do the MMO thing, we could cut that Van leveling down quite a bit, except that we also have Devs with all that additional knowledge and experience on how to do the MMO thing, and those Devs can make a questing experience that can make full use of and include those 150+ hours.
    Again, if you are a player that is hell bent on finding a "grind" to complain about, then no type of content anywhere, in any MMO, is going to stop you from complaining about a grind in W*.
  9. Onallion

    Onallion New Cupcake

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    I have been craving a more "old-school", slow leveling process for a long time now. Like pretty much everyone has already said - hitting cap should be an ACHIEVEMENT. Leveling should be long and part of the fun.

    That said, that should be accomplished with the least "grind" as possible. We shouldn't have to wack on endless monsters just to level enough to do quests in the next zone, the exp should come from quests/events/crafting/dungeons/PVP etc. There just needs to be a LOT of it so as not to make leveling trivial.

    Also, I believe leveling alts after you've reached cap with 1 character should be faster. SWTOR has a great system for this - legacy. It allows you to get perks and bonuses for your alts once you've reached level cap (though now it is available at level 10...bah) and it makes the process of leveling alts more tolerable. This is great because on my first char I took my time and did almost every piece of quest and content and enjoyed every second of it, but with alts it's just a terrible grind because I already know everything by heart and I just want to get the toon to level 55 as fast as I can so I can use it for raids with my guild.
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  10. Dayno

    Dayno New Cupcake

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    I voted slow because I hate getting to level cap really quickly because it isn't as fun as being a lower level. But the Devs did say there would be tons of stuff to do at level 50 (level cap).

    I didn't pick "very slowly" because then the game is just a grind, repetitive and boring. I really hope there is allot to do in this game which it looks like from the videos i have watched!
  11. SniperCT

    SniperCT Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yeah, I don't mind taking my time the first one or two times, but my 5th and 6th alts I'd really like to speed things up a little... XD
  12. Inimicus

    Inimicus Cupcake

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    I honestly don't care how fast i level, some people can level more efficiently than others and so to some it may seem fast to others it may seem slow, my main issue is that levelling should feel engaging, there should be plenty on my way through the levels that makes me want to stop and smell the roses, i don't like it when MMO's become a race to lvl cap just so i can actually get something for the money i pay/paid.

    From what i have seen Wildstar like many MMO's is looking for it's own way of working around this issue, i just hope there is enough quest variety and enough things to do to earn xp so that i can lvl even if i get a little bored of questing and want to do something else for a while, such as craft/pvp or whatever else there is on offer.
  13. BennyBones

    BennyBones Cupcake

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    Hitting the cap is never an achievement. Not in vanilla WoW, not in Everquest, nowhere. Everyone will hit the cap presuming they don't get bored. Not being bored is not an achievement. It can, however, be a testament to your ability to withstand soul-destroying boredom.

    The only time fast leveling is a problem is if the devs aren't prepared for it, like for The Old Republic. They were warned by thousands of gamers that they needed a good end game and people would burn through the content quickly, they didn't listen and lost 75% of their players in a very short time. To the rest of us, it has no impact at all whether or not someone gets to level cap in 2 hours or 2 months. Plenty of people really enjoy finding the most efficient way of leveling, I say good for them.

    Personally I like to try and find efficient ways of leveling but I'm pretty <REDACTED> at it. I think inimicus above nailed it, leveling should feel engaging. Like the Old Republic class quests. They were fun! Not the actual quests, was always collect X of X or kill X of X. But the story behind them made me want to hear what happened next, so I was engaged and I really enjoyed that bit. The first time through at least. The second time I just wanted leveling to happen as quickly as humanly possible. Variety to run through content with an alt is crucial to the experience in my opinion. Although I hate the WoW grind I still enjoy the fact that I have 2+ zones per level as well as PvP and dungeons to get me up.
  14. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    I think it's fair to say that, unfortunately, from what I've heard, leveling from 1-50 in Wildstar will be possible within a week's time. I'm sure Carbine will make the leveling process fun, but in the end it seems that leveling as an accomplishment/milestone has met a sad end. I just pray that Carbine doesn't do what WoW did and make leveling even FASTER in later patches or expansions. I want future expansions to make the leveling process even longer, not for previous content to get nerfed so hard that leveling to cap is just as fast as it was before. Otherwise, don't add levels in expansions because it's pointless.

    If levels aren't meaningful, they should not exist.
  15. Foozy

    Foozy New Cupcake

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    I -LOVE- slow lvling. It encourages exploring so much more. I'm hoping the quests will be fun to read, as most mmorpgs 'nowadays' discourages reading quest story. I love having knowledge and story about the game, though im not much of a scientist (thereby im going with the explorer). I really hope they will make the lvling in this game slow (not extremely slow). Like one of the developers said in an interview they want it to take weeks-months to reach cap level, not one week like many other mmorpgs. I hope they stick to that and make people fight to actually reach cap level!

    Cheers o/
  16. SepiDN

    SepiDN New Cupcake

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    I'm all for slow leveling. I'd hate to see less than 200hours to cap.
    You will learn your class really well during that time and u'll be a lot more use in the endgame in raid/pvp.
    There are some games that you lvl up so fast that you can be lvl60 and not have a clue about your class.

    I'm used to grind 8h for like 10% of exp. I don't mind it and longer leveling means more OWPVP which I love.

    I'd like to see last levels take 10-20hours of pure exping/questing whatever. That way dedication pays off.
    AND casuals can still make it to level cap. It just takes more days than for the HC players. And to be honest there's so many casual friendly games that I'd like to see one that's made for Semi HC and HC players.

    EDIT***

    Kinda offtopic:

    And the content should be challenging and deep. I loved Lineage 2's epic quests more than any other games quests. It literally took like 15hours to make 3 quests to get your lv40 class.
    It made you get the trust of other races or something like that. Depending which class you were going to be. I HATE "Kill x amount of x". What's the point? why would the quest giver need 10 necklace from orcs? If a quest is made that way why can't you just bring as many as you want and get reward for each necklace? Quests should follow some logic.
  17. Gronky

    Gronky Cupcake-About-Town

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    From the horse's mouth:
    "And pity our content guys. We’re going to launch with 300+ hours of just outdoor content, never mind all the other stuff, and we have about 220 hours of it in various stages of beta readiness, that’s getting unlocked month after month. Maintaining that much content while generating the remaining 100 or so hours plus raids, plus responding to feedback, plus progression on making sure things don’t break, that’s the hard part."

    “We will not launch until we have highly varied content and hundreds of hours of it, just while you’re leveling, and hundreds more of elder games behind it that are tuned, tested and polished – that’s our mantra, that’s our secret sauce at the end of the day more than any single cool USP.”
  18. F8L Fool

    F8L Fool Cupcake-About-Town

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    UPDATE/EDIT: In an interview last week Stephen Frost was asked how long it would take the average player to reach the level cap. His response (which you can see at 7:27 in the video below) was "I would say it's probably a little over a month. It's something we are kind of tuning and adjusting in beta too."


    Based on the previous developer claims that there will be somewhere between 200-300 hours of leveling content, this new information seems a bit contradictory. Basically it assumes that, if there was 250 hours of leveling content and the "average" player finished it in a little over a month (6 weeks for arguments sake), they would be putting in 41 hours a week playing to hit the cap in that time. I don't know about you, but I highly doubt an average person spends 40 hours or more playing MMO's.

    He does go on to say that it is something they have to continuously test, but what he said is a far cry from what I had in mind. Either Stephen had a really wonky estimation, there isn't as much content as originally thought, or the current leveling speed just hasn't been tested enough. Hopefully it is the latter.
    _____________________________________
    As much as I want to believe people genuinely want a Slow to Very Slow leveling experience, I find it highly unlikely. For one the definition of "slow leveling" in itself is extremely subjective to each player. To someone that hit or neared the initial level cap in Lineage 2 for example, slow is fundamentally different than someone that maxed out only in WoW or SW:TOR.

    For me, slow leveling equates to the average player hitting the level cap sometime around 4-5 months after the release of the game. While the absolutely dedicated and hardcore players accomplish the feat somewhere around the 2 month mark. Very slow on the other hand is more along the lines of one year or so.

    If I had to use an example for what I feel is a good leveling speed from all the games I've played, I still stand buy the original Everquest 1 model.
  19. Gronky

    Gronky Cupcake-About-Town

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    They should tell us how many hours leveling takes for an average gamer. On the other hand, if they go P2P we will see an extension soon enough and there are more important things to finish now, I suppose. I just hope that map & leveling time is at least as big as Vanilla WoW or I personally will be disappointed.

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