Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Lyas Tyrell, Apr 5, 2013.
Err... the guy who fought his way in with his team, or just appeared in the dungeon with a team?
I feel like this poll needs to have an additional radial option. "I'd like to be warped near the entrance to save SOME time." I bet it would outright be ahead in the poll instead of close to 50%...
Please do, I know you'd be interested.
Loading screens aren't fun, and minimizing them as much as possible is something a lot of developers try to do.
If you want to walk manually to the dungeon, form a group manually on your server; it's not that difficult. However, there is nothing engaging about running from point A to point B over and over and over again. Do you not think it would be better to lure people out into the world with actual stuff to do, rather than forcing them out via menial travel?
If its on your server then PvP Servers should make you walk to the dungeon and RP/PvE servers should have a toggle option if you want to teleport or walk there.
For PvP servers, it makes sense that the tool doesn't teleport you there so you have to walk and thus have to engage in World PvP (since that is one of the main points of joining a PvP server) while for RP servers, it would make sense for it to also make you walk there but since this is the future, you could just say you have a teleporter device so either way it works and finally it is needed for PvE players so casuals and the likes don't have to mess about walking/finding the dungeon.
Sounds like a nightmare for the devs to implement. You want them to make one set of rules and options for cross-server groups and another for same-server groups. Then break it down further into PVP or RP or PVE and make the whole thing be optional. Glad I don't work for a game company.
We've already discussed this earlier. You're speaking from a PvE perspective and I'm speaking from a PvP perspective. The answer is in PvP land, yes and no, in PvE land it is better. This is depending on Settler abilities of course and how Path content works at endgame.
Meh, not really... you write a function for PvE servers that ports straight to dungeon (possibly also cross server queues) and put it in the PvE ruleset. Then when a PvE server is set as that in the database, it just follows that ruleset. PvP servers you do everything except the teleport (or if we go with the general consensus you teleport near the dungeon, as this is proven to be a likely point of interaction). RP server should actually not teleport as well, due to immersive gameplay and doubly true for RP-PvP, as RP servers may have people hanging out or doing something in the world that most other servers are not likely to have.
Edit: Also, the fact that the cross server and same server queues already have different rulesets, you just add in the different ways it teleports. There's in total 8 different options:
RP-PVE (same server)
RP-PVE (cross server)
RP-PVP (same server)
RP-PVP (cross server)
PVP (same server)
PVP (cross server)
PVE (same server)
PVE (cross server)
Although all the cross server queues act the same way that they would port straight to the dungeon as well as the PVE same server queue. This means really only 3 functions be written with one having a switch-case with 5 parameters one having another 1 parameter and one having 2 parameters. This is of course assuming RP servers work differently from PvP.
Actually, I've spent my entire time in WoW on an RP-PvP server where world PvP is actually fairly common, so I'm speaking on this from a perspective with experience on both "sides". Not once in my time in WoW did I think I was missing out on a PvP opportunity by being teleported to a dungeon when using the LFD queue, because there are far better ways to get world PvP.
When was the last time you saw world PvP and how did it happen? Also, doesn't teleportation into a dungeon mess with your immersion?
Well, I haven't played WoW since... uh, September, I think? But before then, there was constant small skirmishes at and around primary quest hubs. Occasionally someone would start an impromptu raid on Stormwind. When Blizzard implemented the cross-server zoning, we had a really exciting few weeks where folks from a non-RP PvP server tried to "one up" us and camped outside Orgrimmar constantly, which turned into a kind of continuous battle - that was fun! There was a group who liked to go to the lesser-used Alliance cities (Exodar and Darnassus, particularly) and lure in Alliance defense. The Outland zones were generally pretty dangerous, too, especially Hellfire Penninsula, as the big PvP guilds and players on the server had kind of... ah, regular patrols I guess one could call it? They'd just spend an entire day roving and looking for and/or picking fights.
My most favorite moments in world PvP were the semi-planned, massive battles that we actually tried to keep something of a storyline around. One involved an assault on Ashenvale in which we managed, after a protracted battle, to take over Astranaar and then pushed all the way up into Darkshore to Auberdine. Though, we also had battles in Feralas, Dustwallow/Theramore, all over Mount Hyjal, and I recall a few in the Plaguelands - some with more "IC" history than others. But those were all still going on up to the point I quit (and had expanded into Pandaria zones), and I'm fairly sure they haven't stopped.
To answer your second question - no, it doesn't "mess with [my] immersion" because I have the ability to segregate certain game play aspects from lore. It's the same reason killing the same boss over and over doesn't mess with my immersion, or being able to fly from one end of a continent to the other in 15 minutes doesn't mess with my immersion.
If people actually want world PvP, they will make it, and being teleported to an instance when using the dungeon finder really won't change that.
I don't necessarily mind if low level dungeons have a teleport feature, but not endgame ones and DEFINITELY not raids, ever. Inciting laziness is never a good thing and whether people want to believe it or not, MMOs should and have for the most part always taken a decent amount of time devotion to accomplish anything on a large scale. Plus, to me personally being able to teleport a bunch of places makes the journey and end reward seem much less epic. If I had it my way you'd have to walk, but there would be ways to travel to a dungeon so it would never take an obscene amount of time to get there, maybe 5 mins max.
You should check out the thread in my signature I think you'd be interested.
Apparently there's a larger population of RP players that don't mind teleportation, as you're the second to speak up for it. I apologize in that case. I would have thought RP players would be the loudest in protest for a DF system. It sounds like you're relatively new to the MMO scene, is this true? (This is not to discredit you in any way, it's simply trying to understand where your gaming experience comes from to post in a way that's friendlier to your thought process.) I had previously assumed the RP population despised any warping systems, due to immersion fracturing, I will begrudgingly admit I was wrong (you won't see me admit to that often either). Do you know if you're in the minority of RP players who feel this way, or is this the general feel that it's ok?
Erm Rp players tend to like convenience so they can do what they really want to ingame. Some will like travelling in character with a group and some wont.
It depends on how much time we have and how much we are willing to put aside for non rp purposes.
As far as dungeons go, rpers form groups all the time and will travel there on foot because they want something for looks from a dungeon and usually those dungeons arent available through the looking for dungeon group because it is either outdated or they want to make sure the whole group is on the same page that it is a fashion run.
It really is an invidual matter. I say this as an rper from many mmos and to be honest , most rpers spend their time arguing about what is or is not acceptable and how to deal with trolls. Its not very often this matter about porting comes up.
If we want world rp, we go out and make it in the world and advertise events and hubs being used.
Good to know, thanks.
I hardly think it matters how "new" or "old" I am, but I've played MMOs (and a lot of them) for roughly six years now, to answer your implied question.
I don't think it's something roleplayers on a whole really consider, because game play-story segregation is fairly standard when roleplaying within a game that puts certain limits (or removes certain limits) due to balance or other non-story-related factors. My immersion is not so fragile as to be destroyed by something as simple as teleporting to an instance, especially since running an instance is very rarely an act of roleplay - at least, certainly not with the LFD tool. Trying to carry out an IC instance while using an automatic dungeon finder is more liable to get one kicked than anything. If on the off chance I do want to ICly run an instance (and I have in the past), my friends and I will do it on our own, without aid of a dungeon finder. It all boils down to the importance of game play-story segregation.
 @Rumze: Exactly.
The rest of the comment kinda went into what they do like to do.
This whole movement of running to dungeons is nothing new to rpers. We do it anyway for a variety of reasons. We also use the conveniences where time is an issue.
But i guess my buzz word starter opening is enough for most purposes.
I do understand the concept you are putting forth, but let's think about MMO player behavior critically. If players are traveling to a dungeon then that is the thing they are focused on doing, especially if they just waiting in a 30 minute queue. In general people are just going to blow past dynamic events and path missions on their way to the dungeon. And if one dude stops to do a hold out the group is going to flip out.
This isn't compelling content, just an excuse for gankers to coalesce. In GW2 dungeons can get closed off by dynamic events. If that's a thing then walking is compelling because some of the time you are going to have to assist in an event in order to open the instance back up.
I can't speak to current events in Warcraft because I am on Malganis (94% horde) but back in Burning Crusade on the Isle of Quel'danas there was a near constant running battle between Horde and Alliance players. Some people were laser focused on their dailies, but not everyone, which leads to ganking which leads to counter attacks. Having guild escorts while you did your dailies was common. Feint attacks to draw out the protectors so the quester could be griefed.
The same sort of thing happened in the Hodir daily area in Wrath of the Litch King and even into the Molten Front Dailies in Cataclysm despite the giant safe zone built into the quest hub to inhibit this activity.
They type of activities you are looking to get out of Dungeon travel can exist in areas that are designed to be for open world interaction and being in those areas will result in more participation. Players in these areas are there because they are interested in PVE questing, so they will be interested in crossing paths and dynamic events and any other crazyness. That really jazzes up the experience, I would love to see that stuff when I am doing dailies. But not when I'm running an instance, I want to get to the instance and do it. That's why I queued up.
After pages and pages of off topic arguments I thought my points had merit. Though I would draw a distinction between successful argument and casually dismissed.
I voted in the poll that I felt same server travel had merit, but I've changed my mind while analyzing the question. In most games travel to the dungeon only exists to take time. If time spent is the only element of variance then I can't see the point.
If I am queuing up for an dungeon that is the activity I am interested in performing. I may perform some other activity while I wait for my turn, or I may idle in town and browse the internet waiting for the fanfair sound to play. I don't want to have to travel to the dungeon and wait on one group member who is still in town because he thought he'd get a summon, or who got confused and went to the wrong instance, or decided to get in a fight that the rest of the group avoided. These things aren't "challenges to overcome" they are just a waste of time.
On a same server queue? Doubtful, you're trying to keep relationships with same server queue's so if something's fun or interesting along the way the groups much more likely to stop and do it, or if the group generally wants to move on, they'll say so, and the one will go on ahead.
Possibly also other parties that are looking to run the same dungeon.
Ok, maybe my server was weird, or gamers have changed, or the population which was in WoW left and the new population is completely pacifist.
Again on same server queue? People who are laser focused on getting their instances in, are looking to blow through them as quickly as possible, as it's going to be for gear. I don't know anyone who speed runs dungeons over and over with unknown groups for any other reason. This would be cross server queuing, as the queue times will be 2-4 times faster. This isn't to say the cross server queue is quicker than normal, it's to say same server queuing is slooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwww.
Going to have to check the original post of yours to respond to the rest of this, gimme a tick.