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LFG Tool, a Poll

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Lyas Tyrell, Apr 5, 2013.

?

If you are trying to group with just your server, should it warp you to instance?

  1. Yeah, why not

    107 vote(s)
    46.3%
  2. No, it's my server I'll walk

    124 vote(s)
    53.7%
  1. Kalmander

    Kalmander Well-Known Cupcake

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    I'm bringing this up more on the "I want people to travel the world, because stuff can happen on it". PVP is just one tiny part of it, but countless other things can happen (or you can run into them) if you travel through the world. You may see people engaging in PVP, or see 20 people around a campfire roleplaying, or see 10 people dancing around a naked mechari, or see 1 person that needs help with a quest, and later becomes your best friend...Or you may see nothing (it can also happen). Walking to the instance will give you a small percentage of running into something interesting. Porting to an instance will give you exactly a 0% chance of running into something interesting.

    The people in an MMO are the best content there can be. Teleporting from one side to another will remove you from the world, and from many possible interactions.
  2. Rumze

    Rumze "That" Cupcake

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    One way of promoting world travel would be dynamic events and I think wildstar will have something on those lines.
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  3. Moor

    Moor New Cupcake

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    I like the idea of having to run to the dungeons. Sort of. World PvP? Sure, but that's not really the best reason, it is just a byproduct of the best reason: a live world. And I don't mean that in the sense that it's alive because there's a lot of people roaming the lands (even though that does help too). No, the thing is, when you get to quick travel you lose sense of distance and space. The game becomes more lobby-based, which is something that few people, even HC-theme park players, like.

    But there's the other side as well. Yeah, I used to be keenly aware spacially with BWL, and first it was even fun flying there from IF. But, it got old quick. I fear a lot of people will go for the x-realm LFG tool for conveniences sake even without having to run all the way to the dungeon. That gives me an idea, actually. Do we need to run all the way to the dungeon? Couldn't the LFG tool, like, teleport you to the town nearest to the dungeon? You would use a taxi service to get there anyways.

    I don't really know.
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  4. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Actually I have one word to sum up a reason to travel to a dungeon as opposed to teleport.

    Settlers
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  5. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    Can't say I like repetitive timezinks at all.

    Having to travel to dungeons is like I have it with flightpaths. It is good the first couple of times, because it is a new experience, and usually quit beautiful and there is so much to see from that vantage, content that should be seen to know ones way around in the world. But over time one should know the trip and be able to do it faster.

    Over time it becomes just as repetitive timezink as doing the same daily for the 50th time - a daily you have to do because the daily is the only access to a reputation recipy, that is the best for raiding pots or food. You have to do that daily because you want to do your best at raiding - but it is imho bad game design to only apply one repetitive avenue to the recipy.

    Repetitive timezinks is counter productive to keeping customers - just ask Blizzard how many left during long periods of no new content, ask them why they add content at a far better rate now. Because repetitive timezinks loose customers. Engaging content makes them stay, as long as the new content is not just more of the old.

    For that reason I do believe it should be a requirement to know where a dungeon is to access it through a dungeon finder. Implementing some sort of 3 times achievement that gives the player access to tp to dungeon after they have completed it 3 times and not before could be something that gives everybody a little bit of what they want - insta tp after 3 times for those who lobby dungeons, and forcing people to know the world and entrances to dungeons. It would unfortunately mean plenty of waiting around for the last party members who have yet to get such achievement, unless there is a summoning stone in the instance.

    I do feel, I personally have a right to consider travelling to dungeons as the defacto standard totally absurd. The argument is that people should se the world and travelling to dungeons makes that happen.

    The thing is, I am plenty out in the world doing other content solo or with guildies and friends. I do not lobby dungeons, since the definition appears to be sitting in the city and hitting the queue button over and over, and I never did. I see the world, while I am doing something there - not just when it is a waste space I have to get from point a to point b. I do not need a forced travelling timezink to a dungeon to teach me about the world - more engaging content out in the world does that.

    If dungeons was all there was to a game, I would not even be playing it in the first place.
  6. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    So... how would you feel if the x-realm LFD tool teleported you straight to the dungeon but the server one did not? The point of a server only queue is that you get to know people on your server so you can build the community and it holds players accountable, because you will likely be playing with them again. Now, due to the dynamic content already in place from settlers. So, if the journey becomes more interesting due to this (due to events set down by settlers that are helpful, or possibly enemy cannons, etc.) the server community is strengthened. On the other hand, if you're doing <whatever> in the world and your queue pops up, you're gone. Especially if the queue was especially long from being a server only LFD queue, you're going to teleport to the dungeon, thereby destroying the possibility of the current open world event.

    So, the compromise is that if you want your "fast queue to get gear" go with the x-realm, on the other hand to help build a rich community within a server the server only queue just forms your group and you travel there.

    The main advantage is, that you've invested more time with the group, by travelling to the dungeon so hopefully you will go do something else afterward, perhaps run another dungeon, or go wage war on an outpost or whatever else.
  7. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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    Or how bout we just remove that silly toggle 80%+ people aren't going to use, have a X-realm LFG and a LFG channel. If you want to get a group together on your server feel free, want too hoof it there good for you, if not join the LFG as a team and BAM teleported. All these arguments are is two sides that can't prove their viewpoint anyway we lack any metrics, and there is no way to measure community it's all just subjective opinion and your own personal point of view.
  8. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    I'd be down with this if the LFG channel was server wide... But then it just becomes a buy gold spam channel. The button's there to help make it easier on people who want to belong to a server. 80% of people won't use it, and I doubt that 95% of the people who do use it would mind travel time to the dungeon. The reason you don't just get rid of it, is because LFG channels mean you have to at least semi-pay attention to them and can't be immersed in doing what you're doing while someone else finds a team for you. So, why not let the 20% have their button? Remember, just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it.

    Edit: I'm attempting to come up with tangible compromises and solutions instead of trying to convince everyone else that there is only one way to play the game correctly. So, why are you personally against the check box which is completely optional?
  9. SoulstoDeny

    SoulstoDeny New Cupcake

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    The most common argument for having teleports seem to come from people those that believe it reduces tedium and eliminates trolling from would-be gankers.

    It doesn't. If you're on a PVE server, you still have to deal with idiots. These idiots will use the LFG tool. They will abuse it. They will leave and join groups without a care in the world. While you're relieved at not having to make some effort to get to the game's content, you'll find yourself still having your time wasted by trolls because you:

    A) assumed the worst was over by not having to touch the keyboard to get to some content

    B) tried to run a dungeon with a random group of people

    LFG tools do not help people who cannot commit a lot of time. LFG tools do not help people with kids. LFG tools do not help people that have to get up in the morning. All it does is compact what would be stretched out frustration over the course of a period of time into mini-bouts of frustration while you find yourself queuing up for the 5th time hurriedly before having to go to bed/work/whatever. From my experience, you are more likely to get what you want out of a dungeon you've ran 1000 times much quicker out of group that has manually had to come together, both in the form of making the group and having to go to the start.
  10. Galosha

    Galosha Cupcake

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    Rift had pretty lively world when i last played it.

    As for finder can propose only teleport to random dungeon, but if you want farm specific dungeon you need run to it's entrance (you can start your journey early, the moment u decided to queue, becouse u know which way to run).
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  11. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    In most cases the manually put together group is faster because it's done from guild mates that might even be in the same raid group. If you include the time to go to town yell it that you're looking for dps/heals/tank for <bleh> run, it's considerably longer. I'd estimate 10-30 mins to get the group together 5-15 mins travel time then at least a normal run time. Random groups take 0 effective time to group up 0 travel time and then a possibility of an epic fail in the actual dungeon that means it takes 2x the time of a normal run (much longer than 1.5x and people start leaving and giving up). So, generally, no if a group is formed manually outside of a guild, it does not save time in most cases. Yes, there are trolls and griefers in LFD tools, but in general it saves time. Also, the actual dungeon run would usually be quicker for a manually formed group, but the entire time involved is not, because you can't multitask (as well) when finding others.
  12. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    No not at all. As soon as something becomes a repetitive timezink with no reward it has no valid use in todays games, that is the main argument.

    Basically, if you are on a pvp server, ganking is something you just have to live with for that choice. If you do not like getting ganked, don't roll pvp.
  13. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    So, a couple questions on this consensus.

    First, what if it's not repetitive, but different every time?

    Settlers allow for movable "things" in the environment which may attract or detract players of different factions.

    Second, what if there was a reward?

    Again settlers get a perk for getting others involved in the world, what if the other players in turn get a reward for helping the settlers?
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  14. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    Not sure it is common consensus though some agree. It is just my argument, and I even reach out and meet those on the other side of the pond halfway, because some of their arguments makes sense - up to the point where getting to the same dungeon for the uptenth time is nothing but a repetitive timezink.
    People should know the world, and entering a dungeon you do not know where to enter does not make total sense in a storyline/lore connected way. But not developing a faster way to get there at some point does not make sense either.
    First: You mean settlers change where the entrance to a dungeon is? I would think it make getting started on a dungeon take a lot longer, if you have to find out where the last settler "put it". Why even force this upon content that is outside the open world? If it was to a rare contested indoor area for achievements, lore, finds, vanity stuff, seasonal content I could see it as community gather point carried by paths.

    Second: What type of reward do you think is adequate for not doing something of significant other than spend longer time to get started on the group content in question?

    I hope there is plenty open world content for settlers to engage with, but why does it have to be connected to dungeons? - why force it on something, that technically isn't really in the open world other than having some lore to explain its existence and an entrance in from the open world.

    I really do not understand, why people are more hellbent on making dungeons the gather point rather than open world content and content that is more a community testimony.
  15. Joukehainen

    Joukehainen Well-Known Cupcake

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    Isn't doing the same dungeon for the upteenth time a much bigger repetitive timesink? :B
  16. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    No, grouping is marvelous, though at some point the same dungeon will grow stale. If you do not like grouping, then maybe you should consider not doing dungeons at all.
  17. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Ugh, let's not start that argument yet... that ends up degrading into a shouting match (or at least it did last time). Not to disregard your thoughts, but the last time that started coming out in a thread, the thread got shut down.
  18. Joukehainen

    Joukehainen Well-Known Cupcake

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    I love grouping, never said anything to the contrary. Where'd you get that from? :p

    My point was just that re-running the same dungeon over and over for gear drops is a much bigger timesink than getting to the dungeon itself! The need to re-run the same dungeon many times was implemented to give content more longevity. There used to be items in WoW that were BiS and had miniscule drop rates, and even if it dropped, you still have to win a roll on it! This has been made somewhat faster in recent years with the advent of tokens in MMOs, but generally you still have to run the same dungeons many times in MMOs to get gear out of them. It's the nature of the beast.

    I don't mind re-running instances over and over to get gear: that's part of an MMO, for me. Neither do I mind running to them, for the same reason.
  19. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    OK, this is a matter of definition, so let me explain where I am comming from:

    Timezink = something for no good reason other than wasting your time. Travelling time to get to the entrance of an instance is beyond knowing the entrance, which one time travel should do, is a timezink, and there is no good reason for it, that is not work better spent elsewhere.

    Grind = repetitiveness for the reward you hope to gain from it. This is the dungeon you have to do for the 50th time hoping to get that one drop that never drops - something that may not happen with Wildstar if their mod system works as they say they intend it to work.

    If dungeons becomes a timezink - a place to spend time for no tangible reward, then it is your decision to do so, noone force it on you.

    If travelling to a dungeon is a timezink, and that is unavoidable if it is required to do dungeons, then you are forced to do it to get to the dungeon.

    While it makes sense that people know where the entrance is and know how to get around in the world, it makes no sense whatsoever to force them to time and again spend time travelling to a place where they are the 3 seconds it takes entering the dungeon.

    People really should try to innovate, find something other than instanced dungeon entrances to build their community on. Game features changed, but the players and communities failed to deal.
    However, Wildstar is supplying the tools, so why not look at them, instead of looking at something that no longer fits the bill?
  20. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Edit: Holy <REDACTED> my apologies for such a long post but please sludge through and read it.

    Ok, so here's the deal, to get people in the world and keep them there, a reward must exist for the time spent out in the world. This can be either fun, gear, or an achievement. In order to have players interacting with eachother, since the world is relatively large, there must be players which will cross paths that are on similar footing for an extended temporary event. The only way to keep it changing, is to have dynamic events that aren't always there.

    So, people travelling to and from dungeons are a good way to increase the crossing paths of players. A holding power of this is PvP combat, where you have to defeat the enemies before you can continue on the way. A good way to make sure that the PvP is of players on close to equal footing is, make them both travel to the same dungeon. This is an automatic gating for open world PvP because if players are too high a level, they won't be going to the dungeon naturally due to lack of reward, and too low a level will not be able to complete it so they also won't be there.

    So, travelling to the dungeon and then doing the dungeon gives a journey, while just doing the dungeon is just a reward. Since the dungeon is instanced and scripted, it will not be much of a challenge (long term) while travelling there is always a potentially dynamic journey of various challenges. Keep in mind there's also going to be the cross server LFD along side this if you just want to do a dungeon quickly and not worry about mucking about in the world.

    No, I mean that settlers can set up cannons at the dungeon's entrance, or may have a new outpost along the way that is only there every once in a while that allows for certain achievements or rewards (could be gear or resources or vanity items). I don't know the extent of the settler's powers so it's hard to say for sure what they could do. Moving the entrance makes it annoying, changing the journey there makes it fun and interesting.

    Fun.

    Dungeons are connected to open world content, as everyone (or VERY many at least) runs them. This allows those who are in server only LFD tool to create even more community interaction on the server, which was the whole reason for the server only search tool. Keep in mind the cross server search tool will work exactly the same tool as has been implemented in many games, where you get teleported straight to the dungeon.

    It's very hard to engineer open world content that is going to be dynamic and interesting for players. So, the dungeons are a major source of content which can allow for open world content revolving around it. The reason players are adamant to have this implemented for the server only search tool is, without a certain number of players doing this the chances of any event happening are basically non-existent.

    Keep in mind you can still use the teleport to dungeon LFD tool it's just the cross server one, which gets you into a que at least 2x as fast if not faster. It's estimated that search times for server only LFD searches will average at about an hour. This is the reason they're implementing both systems, because for those that the server community is more important, they'll be willing to wait, but those that just want to get some instanced group content in, they typically won't.
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