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[Massively] Nexus Telgraph: Raiding in Wildstar...

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by whocares8310, Jun 11, 2013.

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  1. Airhammer

    Airhammer Cupcake

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    I'm a raider, but I still love and feel the need for solo/small group content. I was playing WoW up until recently. I found myself just logging on for raids and couldn't even find something to do while I waited 30 min for an lfr queue. I'd hate to see Wildstar turn into that.

    I don't think having Solo content that's as rewarding as raiding will even really happen. Its just easier to balance content around a set amount of healer/tank/dps. Besides the fact that making solo content that's as difficult as raids while still be fair for all the different class/spec/path combinations is really challenging. You also have to factor in the challenge of getting the people together for a raid.

    I think solo/small group content should be rewarding. At the very least it should put you in the position to raid if you wanted. But making the content equally rewarding means making it equally challenging and that's probably impossible. They could try to go the way SWTOR *shiver* did with the leadership stat and companions. That still leads to issues of people feeling like they had to use a certain companion or certain spec. I'm not saying its a good idea, but they were on the right track. The only way to make gear equal levels for Solo/Group/PVP is to give them separate primary stats.

    That's just my 2 cents. I'm not worried. I have faith in Carbine.
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  2. Zwipe

    Zwipe Cupcake

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    I am a soloist, and I treat raids as a luxury more than a necessity...but I strongly feel that group activities should give higher rewards than solo activities.

    If I'm playing solo and DC or have to log out for some reason, I am the only one who suffers.

    If I'm in a raid and DC or have to log out for some reason, 39 other people suffer along with me.

    It is a lot harder to get 40 people to commit a specific time to be together and work as a unit, than it it for one to do things at their leisure.

    What I don't understand is how people pay for a game that they well know is a social game that focuses on group activities, yet feel like people owe them for logging in and playing by themselves.

    Its like Kobe signing up for the NBA, and expecting the league to give him his own championship ring for beating LeBron one-on-one.

    Am I missing something here, fellow soloists?
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  3. cirk

    cirk Cupcake

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    I think WoW has shown, the thing that keeps most people playing is not the content but other people. It is in the devs best interest to lure players into group play and the easiest way to do that is to hang the biggest carrot at the end of raiding. If you want challenging and rewarding solo content I would recommend to give Dark Souls a shot. It is quite a experience to be stuck on a boss for days without having anyone else to blame.
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  4. Ellianar

    Ellianar Cupcake-About-Town

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    No they stated that solo gear will be optimal for soloing and average but viable for raiding, and that raid gear wil be optimal for raiding and viable but not optimal for solo content so no raid stuff will not be the highest level of content because you ll find better stuff for solo stuff if you do solo content
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  5. Elthic

    Elthic Cupcake-About-Town

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    So what this means to me is that raid gear will have more specialized gear. For example, dps gear will be specialized for high dps, healing gear will be specialized for high healing, and tank gear will be specialized for high survivability. These are are things that will be needed in raiding.

    While solo gear will have some sort of hybridish gear. While, soloing you will need some form of mixed stats. You will need survivability and dps stats. However, because of item budget they won't reach the same level of dps or survivability as a raid set. But you will do more dps than a tank, and you will have more survivability than a dps.

    Seems fair to me.

    They have said that the most difficult content will give the best rewards though. Whether solo content will offer difficult content remains to be seen.
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  6. Zwipe

    Zwipe Cupcake

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    Sounds about right.

    I know everyone's probrably going to hate me for opening up Pandora's Box, but by using the above stat allocation (sacrificing specialization for survivability), wouldn't you technically have PvP gear?
  7. Ellianar

    Ellianar Cupcake-About-Town

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    PvP stats have been confirmed one to reduce incoming player damage and one to increase damage on player so yeah i guess solo gear will be average on PvP and could be a good option if you start PvP before you can get real PvP stuff
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  8. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    I don't mind giving solo content, small group content and raid content equally rewarding rewards. As long they are not the same rewards.

    Raid Content could gives= Awesome looking armor sets, extremely rare mounts, tittles.
    5-man contenst=Awesome looking armor sets with less stats, mounts, achievements, tittles.
    Solo content could gives=Awesome looking armor sets, less stats than 5-man gear, mounts, achievements, tittles.

    Also the gear for that particular aspect of the game could have set bonuses and what not for that aspect of the game. In the most simple form it could be; Raid gear gives +5% damage. 5-man gear gives faster corpse runs, little to offhealing, longer CCS. Solo gear gives higher double jump, longer sprint duration and what not.

    Like I have said before in other threads about the same matter; MMORPG needs feeling of being unique, feeling of progression and personal goals. I would love that there would be endgame solo content, and endgame 5-man content and endgame raid content wich all are challenging. In order to have some feeling of progression, and feeling of advancement you can not have equal rewards for content that is easier to manage and has easier logistics. Single player content needs only you to be online when you want to while 40-man raids can be logistical nightmare at times.

    There also has to be some exclusivity in raiding. Raiding has to be incredibly hard, it needs to give the best gear wich you can not get anywhere else. Like I have said before, people like to be unique, people like to stand out of the masses and people want to be different. Look at fashion, sports cars all kind of things that one could say are useless and vanity. People buy them as they love to show off and want to stand out. I can't remember last time I would had seen mechanics in raiding that were individually challenging for me personally. Raiding generally is a team effort and it requires everyone to play perfect. If you lose the feeling of exclusivity from raiding, that you earned something awesome, why would you raid? To do something hard because it is hard? I don't remember last time I would had done something hard in raiding but the guild has. If you take out individual persons reward for attending group content wich he has to grind over and over to get a kill, one might ask him self why does he do it? If solo content gives same rewards, ends up being little harder, why play group content?

    I have said I would love Carbine to cater to casuals. I haven't always thought like this, I have been way more elitist douché bag before but it's all live and learn. Some people smarter than me in these forums have opened my eyes and made me adjust my way of thinking. Casuals, solo players, small group players are vastly bigger amount of income to gaming industry than raiders. Raiders might be the most loyal playerbase, but loyality doesn't give ROI to the investors, pay for the server upkeep, customer support and design team.
    I would love to see the biggest playerbase catered with awesome content made just for them. I don't say they have to have raids accessable for everyone, like I said raids have to be incredibly hard. But in order to keep raids hard and challenging and exclusive the game has to have content for the casuals so that they keep playing the game and bringing money to fuel the machine. If causual players have plenty of content, even challenging content made just for them, you wont have the casuals asking to get in to raiding as they have other things to do too so you don't get to the point where wow is, introducing new raid difficulty levels every other week. That is what is wrong in WOW, Raiding is the end game. There is virtually nothing else to do in endgame that is hard and challenging in wow other than raids.

    If you make every aspect of the game give same rewards you remove individual progression from the game. People have to have room for attending something harder as their skills increase.

    You can read what League of Legends lead content designer had to say about World of Warcraft progression and endgame content from (brown text at the middle of the news)
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content...-Content-Designer-on-WoW-News-Recap?#comments

    And what World of Warcraft Lead System Designer ansvered to his points from:
    http://i.imgur.com/wPD8V2Z.png
  9. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    This, We already know the plans so the author words are pointless to debate over and it's just an opinion as any other.

    As for people still believing solo content is equal to getting 40 (or even 20) players to play and act correctly, just keep on believing that as nobody outside of that mindset believes it.
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  10. Draahl

    Draahl Cupcake-About-Town

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    I disagree with that guy from Massivly in so many ways it would require several posts to respond. In short tho, this is a game for raiders, for hardcore raiders to be exact. Ofcourse anyone can play it, but it will cater to the 1% which has been stated over and over again. Anyone writing an article about this game and is not in the 1% and not 100% neutral(and who can be that?) will dislike the game im sure.
  11. Galosha

    Galosha Cupcake

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    This system that you propose good only if you can say how developers should balance solo content when gear have such big difference. Or you support the idea that player in raid gear should own all content with closed eyes (like player in solo-gear killing solo-boss for 10 min with using tactics, consumables etc. and raid geared player kill same boss in 3 minutes without even leaving telegraphs)?

    If i choose solo-play as my field of activity, i want to be the best in it (and if my gear would be bad for raid/PvP then i do not mind, as long as for solo it the best). It's the same as raider want to be best in raiding and do not feel threatened by thought that solo or PvP gear would be better for raid.

    And for reference, farm for gold/rep - not solo content about which we are talking.

    Are you implying all my solo experience should be reincarnation of "Sonic the hedgehog"?
  12. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    Carbine has a gear scaling in the game so many problems are possible to be solved by this. Also in PvE raiding gear progression is normal thing to happen. Todays gear is not optimal when it comes to the raids in the next patch. Why shouldn't there be gear progression in solo content? It would mean that with the gear from the solo content in the patch, you would have easier time to do the raids from the last patch also, making it so that the gear from your content is the best for your content, but also fairly good for the raid content.


    Balancing can be done with unique set bonuses and what not. You look at the issue very much from WoW perspective do you? World of warcraft is way more static game than Wildstar seems to become. Lets say that Solo Gear has set bonuses, or mechanics that only solo gear brings or even stats only solo gear brings (idea I generally do not like tho) such as +5-Man power%? There is multiple ways to do that so that the damage is the same. Also why should the damage be the same? What if the raider has better chance to kill enemy faster, but also has harder time avoiding and dealing with mechanics that are meant for solo content? You can balance way harder mechanics for single player than you can for 40 man raid. Ability that would be complete clusterf**k in 40 man raid, can be fairly simple in solo just due to how much more space and freedom of movement you have. Making +movement, situational movement and lifesafers vastly better than raw the +damage gear from PvE.

    Haha no no, it was just the first example I could come up with, was in bit of a rush.. Then again, wouldn't you just love to charge that super spin and roll trough the whole map one shotting enemies on hit? :D
  13. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    Kind of makes me hope that there will be an option for different gear outfits we can change to without having to click and drag each piece of gear to replace our usual things we prefer when not on a raid.
  14. Ellianar

    Ellianar Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think you re wrong in so many ways... you get it :D

    All that carbine has said for now goes opposite of what you re stating here, why bother announce that raiding will be "an" eldar game among others if they want to cater only to 1%? They want the raid part of the game to be hardcore, that don't mean they want to cater only to raiders

    Don't worry i'm sure that if this isn't implemented yet, there is already an addon for that in beta :D
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  15. boxilot

    boxilot New Cupcake

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    This would been a valid point if you weren't talking about a specific genre; mmo-RPG. If it was just a random MMO it could be whatever, but it is a roleplaying game and if the devs of this roleplaying game decides that raiding should be the highest end then that is their right as designers.

    Don't want to raid? Then leave the MMORPG genre alone. I am pretty tired of seeing people whine about questing, progress taking too long, raiders having the best gear etc. It is just too obvious that they don't belong in this genre of gaming.

    Would be rich if I went over to the CoD forums and started to whine about the lack of character developement, lackluster quest text and no real raidstructure...

    Non-raiders should play all they want! There is content for non-raiders, but what do non-raiders want raidgear for? There should always be alternatives, but raiding is what it is because you need a group of people to down the most challenging boss. Want to down a challenging boss solo? Then get a singleplayer game.
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  16. Haversham

    Haversham Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm fairly sure I remember seeing some UI stuff for it when I played at PAX. Costuming and gear changing will be pretty easy I think.
  17. Galosha

    Galosha Cupcake

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    You may not believe me but RPG and even MMO-RPG not about raiding. They about playing role, and if it's role of sociopath loner so be it. And if you have to say - to back off, to someone then it should be to all who don't do RP.

    If raid is the pinnacle for you its does not mean that this is the case for all playerbase. Nobody yet invented genre where all about raids only. You can be first in developing it, but until, please, learn to share game space with ppl who dont find raiding to be center of the universe.
  18. Vyver

    Vyver "That" Cupcake

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    I'm pretty sure the R in RPG doesn't stand for raiding either.....
  19. Witless

    Witless "That" Cupcake

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    Good article, not sure why there are a lot of folks here who seem to take offense to it. I read it and found someone who is fine with this game having raiding and is looking forward to the other options at elder game that they like.

    Why's that an issue?

    John's 100% correct with the bolded part. Fortunately Carbine apparently wants an Elder game that encompasses Raiding, PvP, and Solo/SMG content. Granted we have heard this before from other games and it didn't happen, so we have to wait and see here. But, the point is if they do pull it off then we will be getting what the devs decided to put in their game.

    Now if people want to argue over the epeen gear rewards, fine I guess. That will never change and always be silly. Remember they have stated that they want to make it so the best in one area will help get you STARTED in another, with PvE having raid gear be better than Solo/SMG. Makes sense to me and I'm more of a PvP/SMG kind of guy.
  20. Vanor

    Vanor Cupcake

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    This has to be one of the most short sighted posts I've seen in some time.

    MMORPG is not and never has been exclusively about raiding. The fact is that WoW proved that while raiding is popular and may even be a key part of a games success. The vast majority of players don't ever get involved in raiding.

    At one point and this was back around the release of BC, a WoW dev said that less then 5% of the player base ever took part in a raid. WoW is perhaps the only MMO ever made that that few people could keep a MMO going. I hope WS is wildly successful and will be over 1 mil subscribers a year after release. But if the only people the dev's listen to or cater to are the hardcore 5%, then this game is doomed from the start, because there won't be enough of them to keep the server going.

    And yes I do mean server, as in one single one because there won't be need for more then 1 to host that few people.

    Raiding has a place, and I hope that WS gives people the kind of raids they want. But to do anything that alienates the casual/solo/small group types will do massive harm to the game as a whole.

    Yes that is true, Carbine should make the game they want to make. If they wanted to make a game that after lvl 10 you were required to take part in 40 man raids to advance, they should do so. No one has a right or deserves the kind of game they want.

    If it's not what you want, then don't buy it.

    But doing so would be beyond silly, and would quite frankly never get off the table because no one is going to put the kind of money into a MMO that would appeal to that few people. The dev's want tons of people playing, enjoying and paying for their game. As such they'll make it as inclusive of all play styles as possible.
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