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[Massively] Nexus Telgraph: Raiding in Wildstar...

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by whocares8310, Jun 11, 2013.

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  1. Yakzan

    Yakzan "That" Cupcake

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    <Mod Monocle> Try to tone down the hostility a bit. It's perfectly within reason to "correct" people without having to be a meanie about it. </Mod Monocle>
  2. Witless

    Witless "That" Cupcake

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    I might be wrong (very possible) or I wasn't clear. What I was getting at is that a lot of WildStar fans who are raiding fans grab hold of the 1% quote from Da Gaffer and then run with it. It becomes insinuated that this game is all and only about raiding. It isn't. Carbine has never said that. They have placed an importance on raiding and an importance on PvP and on Solo/SMG as well. What I was pointing out is if you don't like raiding then this game might still have something for you based on what Carbine has said that Solo/SMG and PvP will play a part in Elder game along with raiding. But, understand, that as far as gear goes on the PvE side, Raiding appears to be top dog over Solo/SMG. To me, as it should be, and I probably won't ever see 40 man raids.
  3. boxilot

    boxilot New Cupcake

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    Cute how no one read the entierity of my post where I mention there should always be alternatives to raiding... And YES. You actually got my point! Playing a role, developing a role, is exactly what roleplaying games is all about. In a singleplayer that is defeating bigger and badder bosses. Like in Zelda where you finally face Ganondorf! Except this is an MMORPG, which means you will do this in a group. AKA raiding.
  4. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    The Secret World had something kind of like it, where if would switch your equipment when you changed decks. It was always terribly buggy and rarely worked.

    Some people really like little minigames which can turn around and act as a moneysink to balance economy. The housing project is basically a minigame. So are warplots to an extent. Now if we could only have Super Wildstar Kart Racing and Robobattle Bots
  5. Nezk

    Nezk Cupcake

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    Harder things = Better Reward


    Complicated I know

    Harder = not necessarily individual twitch or logic based skill
  6. kiri

    kiri Cupcake-About-Town

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    I can't believe no one has come up with a good solo progression system yet.

    I think a big part of the reason raiders get upset at the prospect of catering to solo progression is that traditionally it has been at the expense of raiders. Instead of making a seperate progression path (such as solo dungeons with their own kind of gear progression) wow and other games pushed soloers into raiding, which results in horrible abominations like LFR. It's nothing like raiding, there's no sense of accomplishment, and it gives soloers an offensively watered-down experience while taking the exclusivity of raids away from raiders. Everybody loses.

    I get the impression that Carbine understands this, and are building their endgame to accommodate that. Raids will be for raiders, and give rewards that are best for raiding. Solo/small group play will give rewards that are best for solo play (based on what I could insinuate from Gortok in the itemization thread).

    That is a great direction, imo. As long as the rewards are only the best for their given playstyle, no one is stepping on eachother's toes. It's not unlike PVP and PVE seperation now (which has been done quite well in games like wow imo). I have very little interest in PVP, yet as a raider I never feel like PVP progression has any effect on my PVE progression (because it doesn't). Seeing someone with the best PVP gear in the game doesn't devalue my PVE gear. If Carbine can come up with a similar distinction between solo and raid progression, everybody wins.
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  7. Apostate

    Apostate Well-Known Cupcake

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    I don't think anybody here is demanding equal gear for soloing, either. I'll check again to see if I missed a post.
  8. Gomer

    Gomer Cupcake

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    Hmm, perhaps I'm the one that is misunderstanding then. My bad. I shall delete.
  9. Apostate

    Apostate Well-Known Cupcake

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    It's not your fault, it's a misconception that seems to have started earlier in the thread.

    The article requests "equally compelling content" and "gear that's worth having", each in two separate parts of the article. I guess that could be interpreted as "equally compelling gear", but I don't think that's what he meant, because a lot of the article is about how the current state of WoW blatantly funnels people into LFR.

    Which is why I quit the game, personally. I don't want raid-level gear. I don't raid, so I have no need for it. But I was much happier in previous expansions when the heroic 5man dungeons were more than just a warm-up round for LFR. Cataclysm had... almost a dozen different heroics to run? That was nice, there was a little progression path there. It stopped shorter and ended earlier than raiding would have, but I didn't mind. I could hit level cap with a character and not just immediately go, "Well, looks like it's LFR, BGs or quitting."

    MoP has... what, four heroics? And they've officially stated that players are expected to start getting into LFR once they hit cap. The whole expansion is designed around shoving as many players into LFR as possible.

    Raiding should be present, and it should be awesome, and it should have the best PvE gear rewards in the game. No question. Some of my best friends in MMOs over the years have been hardcore raiders, and I've watched how much work they put into what they do.

    The rest of us would just like -something- to do, is all. Though, admittedly, I'd be more likely to try PvP in Wildstar than WoW because there's less concern of just getting steamrolled for days on end by players with better gear while you basically sit there like a trash mob in order to earn points.
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  10. Jarek

    Jarek New Cupcake

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    For me this hits the nail on the head. I don't want to outlevel all other content because I have raided. I would like separated streams so solo gear works for specific solo content, raid for raid and PvP for PvP. Plus if someone solos for 3 months averaging x hours a day - why shouldn't they get rewarded to the same level as someone who raided to the same extent. The rewards should however suit the activity... maybe raiders don't get the most epic mounts as they cannot use them in a raid for example - but they do get the highest stat budgets on gear?
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  11. Vanor

    Vanor Cupcake

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    I'm quite sure it will. No MMO would ship that didn't include stuff for as many types of players as possible. The path system for example seems geared quite extensively towards solo play. So I don't doubt for a moment that people who don't raid will have plenty to do in WS.

    I'm not sure how true what I saw was, but few posts back someone mentioned that the different types of gear would be suited to how you get it. So quest gear would be suited to solo questing, raid gear would be suited to raiding, PvP gear would be suited to PvP.

    If they do that, then I think a lot of the raid vs non-raid issues is nicely resolved. Raid gear isn't the best gear for the whole game, it's only the best gear for that type of content.
  12. Vanor

    Vanor Cupcake

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    Sorry but after this statement...

    I'm pretty sure most people stopped bothering to read any further I know I did. Because you made it quite clear that you were of the opinion that non-raiders don't belong in MMO's. The rest of your post simply didn't matter after that statement.

    If you want people to read the whole thing, you need to make fewer sweeping and absolute statements like this one. Because next to no one will bother reading much further.
  13. Outlaw

    Outlaw Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yeah, this is pretty much my only concern. If they can implement this smoothly and all I need is an extra set of gear for soloing/group play when I'm done raiding, then I'll be happy. Most times it just turns into making raids easier or making raids pointless though...

    Good luck Carbine xD
  14. Gronky

    Gronky Cupcake-About-Town

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    Not true. I wasn't raiding for most of my WoW carrier. Still I was hunting legendaries and drowning with my altoholicyzm. And I was having a blast for a few years. Raiding is for 1% so devs should think hardly about all none raiders (and they do).
  15. Woke

    Woke Cupcake

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    I must be missing something, so can someone give me a quick explanation? How can you separate Solo Gear and Raid Gear? They are both PvE and are PvE based gear. Impossible to separate in my opinion. Not to mention how Carbine has said there will be a Gear Progression for PvE being 5 man < 20 man < 40 man.

    Not sure why Solo Players want or need Top Tier PvE gear in the first place to be honest. They will give you Solo content and I am all for that, but Solo content is not close to as challenging as Raiding and the rewards should be obvious.
  16. Gronky

    Gronky Cupcake-About-Town

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    To be honest if Carbine wanted they could make solo content much more difficult then any raid. Raid difficulty does not come from every player doing something very difficult but from managing a horde of players where each one can make a stupid mistake causing a massive wipe. To be honest every raid player does easy and boring job and the tough job lies on team leaders only.
    If Carbine design end game solo content it may be much tougher for single person to finish than any single player task in raid. It may be so difficult that only 1% may actually finish it.
    So I believe in Carbine to make single player end game content extremely difficult so only a few and best of us can fully clear it. And yes, gear from that content should match raid content. Actually raid gear should be more focused for specific role you play and solo gear should be more versatile (but not as focused on one stat like raid gear).

    Solo = Versatile
    Raid = focused on single most important stat for your role in the raid

    And solo content may be much more challenging and much less annoying for single player.
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  17. Woke

    Woke Cupcake

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    I would be shocked to see Solo content as hard as a 40 man raids, in fact in my opinion it is impossible. Unless they make you try to solo a 5 man dungeon boss but even that would be easier than a 40 man raid. Your one example alone destroys your solo content argument. The fact that one person in a 40 man Raid can wipe the other 39 or can be the key to killing the boss or not. I can tell you haven't done much Hardcore Raiding.

    Once again you are dismissing the survivability Raiders need in there gear. Every boss fight isn't a simple tank and spank, some boss fights have constant AoE dmg or adds. Once again your lack of Raid exp is showing.
  18. Gronky

    Gronky Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well, because of a need for cooperation in the raids they will never make particular player's task as difficult as it could be as it would ensure massive wipe every single time as somebody always do something less optimal that they could do.
    But for single player top level content they may require perfection from the player which is impossible to ask every player for in the raid. So I still believe that single player content can be more difficult for single player than the raid. Cmon, so many times when raiding I did everything perfectly ten times in the row while someone else was failing. I don't consider being able to do all well ten times in a row that difficult task and at the same time we still failed as a group cause of individuals. Raids are just more annoying and their only difficulty comes from group play or its lack. If you couldn't manage your own particular task as a raider and was failing often, you should not speak of other people lack of experience. For me raiding was easy if not for some other players with two left hands. This is a reason I wish for great and difficult solo content which will make me fail more often than I do while raiding.
  19. Kayelia

    Kayelia Cupcake

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    I can't speak for Galosha, but my own concerns about how carbine might handle separating solo/small group and raids does not come from WoW. It comes from PWI (perfect world international). The shenanigans that go on in that game...

    Specialized vs Hybrid gear? It took the playerbase around 6 months to break this and post a fully fleshed out guide. They quickly figured out that mixing heavy/arcane armor can produce better results than light armor. The big holdup wasn't figuring this out; it was the big red -86 stat points required. I've seen posters making this mistake via rounding errors (7*2 vs 15) so I hope carbine doesn't repeat this. If they do, I know people will notice.

    Party restrictions on content that is otherwise soloable? Bypassed that via holes in game logic. Signing up and actually entering are two different things after all. Though, that's more common in pwi's sister games. Alternatively, just leave after entering. No rule that says you have to stay. We'll see how carbine works with that one. Enrage timers? Sure, but if they use enrage timers for 1-5 player content, what separates it from raid content besides amount of people? Probably very little. Also, "soloable" might include killing before the enrage timer could fire. It is possible for this to happen without being significantly overgeared/leveled*.

    *I'm referring to assassin's and the 5aps builds that they spawned. That was more of a unforeseen combinatorial explosion than anything.

    (Sorry if it's a bit of a rant. It's something that's been on my mind for awhile now. I don't want carbine to fall into the same traps pwi did.)
  20. Woke

    Woke Cupcake

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    You keep making my argument for me. Once again I'll use your example, you said you did perfect 10 times but you failed 10 times. However if it was Solo content you would of succeeded 10 straight times.

    I also disagree with you on how there isn't hard tasks that are implemented for a certain players in certain boss fights, however once you figured out the mechanics it becomes simpler but still not easy. It sounds like you were the one that had trouble managing your Raids.(I'll avoid the epeen, I don't want to go down that path since it will just be a massive wall of accomplishments and downgrade the argument) However it does sound like you never played with any Hardcore Raiding Guilds by the way you come off, but I'll take your word since obviously we can't prove it.

    I can also reverse your argument about cooperation and group play. Since they require both they can add way more mechanics to Raid fights compared to Solo fights. I mean even Dark Souls has to implement a death system so it can be considered hard Solo Content. Once again I am all for Solo content but there is simply no way you can make it as challenging in a MMO or compared to Raids.

    I am all for hearing your examples on how to make it difficult and how to separate PvE gear since you skipped my point on the survivability factor that Raiders need. One person wiping a Raid is just one example as well. I can provide about 10 other reason why Raids are harder but this post is already too long.
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