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[Massively] Nexus Telgraph: Raiding in Wildstar...

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by whocares8310, Jun 11, 2013.

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  1. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    I already ansvered this question earlier on in the thread with quite over simplified examples but if you have questions conserning it you are free to scroll back up to my post.

    I'll give an over simplified example again.

    Difficulty in 40-man raids tends to come from executing a tactic as one group
    In raids you have 40-players with you. Lets now say that the 40-players have to avoid boss ability called "Fire on the ground to weed out the noobs". This skill is targeted by the boss on every player in the group and it will land where they are standing when the ability is casted. It will have 3-second trigger time during wich you will not be damaged by the ability. Now this means that the "insane hard" ability needs 40 persons moving from A to B right?
    Well what happens now is that 40 persons have to move from A to B, but what happens when everyone moves in to different locations? There is alot of As created everywhere on the room, and you do not want to end up in to scenario where someone can not move in to B without walking over someone's A. In order to counter this kind of a "group difficulty" or "Mechanic" you might need to have more health on your gear to give you room for error and also higher DPS to be able to do the boss fight with few persons doing their job wrong and dying.

    In 5-man groups the difficulty might come from having only one healer, only one tank so in order to clear mobs before boss you will need more Crowdcontroll in relative amount compared to the Crowdcontroll used in 40-man raid. Boss abilities will still include mechanics such as moving from A to B, but because the smaller amount of players in the game same time you have vastly increased amount of space and freedom for movement. In order to make these 5 man bosses harder, one might need to change boss abilities so that instead of the 3 seconds of reaction time given to you in 40-man raid the game only gives you 1.5 seconds before being damaged first time, three seconds and you will be dead no matter what amount of health you had. This means that your gear doesn't need more stamina or damage as if you fail in executing the tactic right you WILL be dead regardless of the amount of health you have. This could then make gear wich gives you +movement, +roll distance, +jump and double jump heigh, +roll speed and other movement stats being better than absolute amounts of stamina. Also because of the increased amount of crowdcontroll needed, stats that reduce crowdcontroll cooldowns, increase their duration or give niche moves such as "Removes your damage over time effects from the crowdcontrolled targets" best in the content you do.

    For solo content same goes as it goes for 5-man. You can make triggers and damage amounts even more ruthless cause you do not have to worry about someone elses performance. But there can also be relativelly soft hitting abilities that can take your health down slowly requiring you to be able to cast your self stronger self heals. Also some of the solo content might be jumping puzzles, timed runs and what not. For this kind of a content you would ask even more movement, especially jumping height, longer rolls on shorter cooldowns on CC and also stat that gives you +self healing. Of course on timed runs one might argue that the DPS from Raid Gear is vastly better than the gear for solo gear. But what happens if the design of the timed run is so that you are running on a little road on the side of a mountain. You have pack of monsters infront of you and two options to deal with them; Either you CC them off, use fast forward roll, then a higher douple jump to get over a fall behind the mobs and completelly ignore the mobs or you can brute force your way trough cause you can not make the jump and kill the mobs with Raw DPS, pulling a lever to operate an elevator, losing in speed to the jump and the roll but still doing it. Boss mechanics would require you to have the equal or higher amounts of ability to move from mechanics as the 5-man but also a very high stacked +selfhealing modifier.

    This would create unique armor that is best for the gameplay they are used for, but also usable in the other content of the game but just not perfect for it.

    I understand my examples were very much oversimplified, and some of the examples weren't even that good. But I am only one gamer with mediocre imagenation, I am sure carbine developement team can collectivelly come up with alot better stats, challenges and item bonuses than I come with.


    Tldr: You need to step out the old idea that DPS and Stamina are the only stats you require. This is a new game with new game engine and they can do so much more if they just have the imagenation for it.

    Edit: Trying to weed out typos, English ain't my native.
    Rumze likes this.
  2. Woke

    Woke Cupcake

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    Would of been to long to quote the entire post, but I'll comment on most of the points. First, on the part I did quote. I am pretty sure they have mentioned several times that this isn't going to be some next gen MMO and that is going to be more based on the traditional MMO; however with the focus on the best parts only. Hence why they have the traditional core concepts in Raiding, PvP, Gear Progression, and the Trinity System with a few Sandbox concepts in player housing, Dynamic Events, etc...

    Now for the rest of your post, sorry if I missed something but that was a Wall. Every Solo Content thing you mentioned is actually also implemented into group/raid content as well. For example you mentioned how in Raids you only take dmg if you mess up, well that is wrong. Some boss mechanics initiate constant AoE dmg to the Raid and healers have to just heal through it. There is also Adds that are a common mechanic that will cause Raid Dmg. There is also mechanics that target a random player and he will take a massive amount dmg, basically a Gear check. Once again not all Boss fights are tank and spank with a few avoid red circle mechanics. I can keep going on about this one example you said, but I need to cover your other examples.

    Another example is Timed runs and Puzzles. You mention how these are only implemented in Solo content. Once again I have seen both of these mechanics in Raid Content as well. Another thing you mention is Self-Healing which I am pretty sure, since it is following the Trinity there won't be self healing unless you play a healer or a hybrid dps/healer. For example I doubt Warriors will have any self healing abilitys (maybe something like second wind in WoW is possible). This is more of a GW2 concept and is completely opposite of Wildstar.

    The fact is that I have yet to see a concept or mechanic that makes Solo content even close to as challenging and the fact is you can't separate PvE gear by optimizing Stats on Gear when Raiders need Stamina/Endurance the same as Solo Players do. I can go way more in depth since I do min/max a lot with PvE gear and PvP gear. Give good Solo content gear but it should be around 5 man dungeon equivalent PvE gear and a Tier below 20 man Raid gear and two Tier below 40 man gear.
  3. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    But you miss one point completelly. The amount of people in the group. Getting constant low damage on you in solo content, is quite of a different story than getting it in 40 man. I know from experience as healer that slow constant damage is not so much of a problem than a fast unpredictable burst. Basically all comes from balancing.

    You can not look at the things I said separatelly but as a group wich you need to balance as a whole. Sure 40 man might have a constant damage component, but you can have 17% of your raid assigned as healer to deal with it. Do that same number (or 20%) in a 5-man dungeon and you might lack damage required or crowdcontroll. In solo content you absolutelly have no one to heal your self other than your self, making +self healing components must to have.

    From what I have seen all the classes have had some healing spell is it self healable, not sure. But like I said in the post that was a very crude and oversimplified example of how things COULD be balanced, not how they will be balanced. As I said I have average imagenation and close to no knowledge of wildstar mechanics. I am sure their design team can do this job alot better than anyone in these forums.

    If I can think of few ways of requiring different items, talents and skills to do two different areas of the game. I am sure Carbine can think of hundred.

    Have to use the good old "Past Results Do Not Guarantee Future Results". The fact Blizzard or any other gaming community has failed in creating challenging solo content is not a guarantee carbine will do the same.


    Tldr: What kinda gear is considered BIS for certain kind of task comes from balancing. Yes, +movement gear can suck for solo or 5 man content in my example, if there is no movement required. Same goes for raid content and it's gear requirements.

    Having different stats or mechanics available to different gear, would mean they have more buttons to tune if they want to balance things.
  4. Kayelia

    Kayelia Cupcake

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    This is actually false. Solo play is actually harmed by soloing as rpgs favor having more people than less. For example, in Tera, I tried to solo Malgarios the boss of Sinestral Manor. This boss summons adds partway through the fight. The official guide says, "Anyone not otherwise occupied should focus fire on these newcomers—they can easily wipe the party." Since I was solo, I am both occupied and have to deal with the adds at the same time. This results in if I attack the adds, the boss gets me. If I attack the boss, the adds gang up on me. With just one person added, one can tank the boss, the other can clear the adds.

    There's another example of this on youtube. This is a video of someone soloing Abraxis, a world boss, in Tera. He starts out talking about how removing people affects the difficulty of what he's doing. At 21:50 or so, he talks about how exhausting trying to kill this boss is due to time (something else afforded by multiple people). And then he mentions the people that have been helping him. All throughout the video, people have been clearing adds. He says this is a convenience. That he'd have to lure abraxis away from other bams if abraxis got to close. That's the kind of stuff multiple people allows that soloing does not.

    The short version of all this: multiple people are a relief when dealing with hard "solo" content.

    I agree with this.
  5. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    And you missed the point also :)

    The idea is not for you to solo raids. The idea is not for raider to go and wipe the table of world ranks in the speed runs with his hand and dominate cause of his raid gear. The idea is not that group of five raiders goes in to 5-man content and dominates it completelly. The idea is not that 5 man group goes to 40 man group and is able to do it.

    The idea is to have content available for everyone.

    They have 40 man raid instance available for raiders.
    5-man dungeon available for smaller group.
    solo instance available for solo players (or outdoor puzzles..).

    Raiders can to go to to 5-man dungeon, but they will struggle as the pulls require you to have certain amount of CC and can not be overgeared. This amount of CC or other stat that can help you with dealing with group comes only from running 5-man dungeons.

    If a group of 20 different 5-man groups want to go to 40 man raid, they will have very hard time meeting the DPS requirements and health requirements and raw healing output, but might be able to do it with a slim chance.

    The idea is not about overgearing something. But to have content available for every type of player, balanced ONLY for that type of player. You can do that content with sub optimal gear, but with sub optimal results.

    Also when new patch would launch, the new 40 man raid gear would allow you to beat the old solo timed run times. The new solo gear would allow you to successfully do the old 5-man dungeons, and the new 5-man gear from the patch would allow you to successfully do the old raid instance.


    Like I said with new engine, new movement mechanics available for every class Carbine has the tools to do awesome content for every player type and balance it around only for the gear accuired from doing that type of content. Will they do this, do they want to do this or will they go with the old "Raid gear roflstomps everything" is all about their time and money allocation.


    Edit: Sorry for horrible over all look of the post, but it is alot of small details in small chunks so, and sorry for piss poor english. Trying to magically make a pasta salad appear on my table same time while trying to discuss this matter. :p
  6. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    Ya, it sounds like most everything you are talking about is based on having ranking or ladders in 5mans and solo endgame, which I dont believe they have mentioned yet, so that would be quite a big addition to announce if they had it.
  7. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    Indeed it was all speculation and fantasy. If you check where it started, it was a ansver to:
    That is general question how can you separate the gear. Not how has carbine done it now for Wildstar.

    Question was how can one separate the gear, and I came with one example.
  8. Woke

    Woke Cupcake

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    I also have Raided as a healer and I am somewhat puzzled by your statements. I never had any problem with keeping myself up in ANY solo content be in PvE and PvP, burst or not. The only actually difficulty I enjoyed as a healer is pushing content and being in a 25-40 minute boss fight while my tanks are taking Big hits and my Raid is taking constant AoE dmg with the random huge burst of dmg on a player. Not even considering the other mechanics that my dps must handle or the offtank must handle which lead to more Raid dmg. While going OOM several times in the fight, bigger the raid the more dmg and more fun. I'll get into self-heals in my next quote.

    Once again, I am almost positive you are wrong since they are using the Trinity. If they wanted every class to be able to self-sustain heal themselves, they wouldn't go down the Trinity path and would follow the GW2 concept allowing you to do wte the hell you want with your one class. If anything it will be like recuperate for Rogues in WoW or second wind for Warriors in WoW.

    I am not saying the Solo content won't be challenging but when you try to compare btw Raids and Solo content it isn't possible to compare the difficulty. The only way to implement a hard Solo Content concept is going down the Diablo 3/ Dark Souls Death Penalty System, where basically if you die during a Solo Content encounter you lose every piece of money and gear you have attained.

    Not really sure where you are getting at with movement gear (a movement enchant is fine however), but I hope they aren't putting something that dumb in the game. That alone is a huge balance issue in PvE and especially PvP. Unless you want them to implement some kind of +Raid dmg Gear which sounds ridiculous. Basically you want them to make three different Gear sets +PvP Power, +Raid Dmg, +Solo Content Dmg? Not even going to get into how much work that would require and the balance issues there.
  9. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    You still don't understand the point of, new game is new. You absolutelly can not use lines as;
    What you have or haven't done has nothing to do with this product, unless Carbine wants it to have. Like I ansvered to Convicted, the original ansver was to general question of "Is there chance to separate solo and group PvE gear from each other". And there is, if you use your imagenation.

    The fact that some game you have played before haven't been able to create scenarios such as that, has more to do about the game than the possibility of creating one.

    Lets say you have mechanic such as ":devilish:Death Zone!:devilish: " that is targeted under you in in a zone of wich radius is 12 yards. Before the first, and last, tick of the ability hits you, you have one and a half seconds to move out of it, or it removes 500% of your absolute health. Now your ability called "Roll" makes you move 6 yards in 0.5 seconds. You now have one second left to cover the remaining 6 yards before you die. With sprint, you cover 5 yards per second, so you would be one yard short of making it. Well for your joy, solo instance called "Hermes's Lair of Epic Swiftness" has a drop of "Hermes's boots of even more epic swiftness than the lair it was dropped in" wich increases your sprint speed by 25%. If you equip these magnificent boots you will make it out of the Death Zone unharmed, just barely, but you will.

    In this scenario would you get PvE gear with +DPS / +HPS / Stamina... Or the "Hermes's boots of even more epic swiftness than the lair it was dropped in"?

    That was as simple example I can come with. If we now dont have some kind of an understanding that making solo, group, and raid content challenging and requiring different type of gear is all about balance.. I don't know what else I can say. :)
  10. Woke

    Woke Cupcake

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    Not even sure how they would implement a ranking or ladder system to 5 mans or solo. The only way I can think of is a Time Run system but that is a bad system to dictate Skill LvL and Gear Progression. To me he basically sounds like he is beating around the bush of wanting a "Normalized Gear System."
  11. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    You can have either normalized gear system, or you can have gear progression with old best times becomming legacy times wich were done when the game was fresh. Or you can have other ranking systems and what not.

    I am not a game designer, f-do-i-know really. :)

    Please keep in mind where the discussion of this started from. It was a general question is such balancing doable. I gave very very crude example how to do it, and I am just a player not a game designer. You could do the balance in my way, but would it be a good game wich gives interesting gear decisions and would it be entertaining? I don't know, most likely not. But if they wanted to, had the budget and time for it, I am sure Carbine could come up with utterly amazing solo and 5 man content of even higher difficulty for individual player than what is required in raiding. As a example WoW's engine is not even a true 3d engine, wich prohibits making such content.
  12. Gronky

    Gronky Cupcake-About-Town

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    I would want them to make solo content where I would fail almost every time comparing to passing 10 times in a row when raiding. After ten tries I should win, so approximately after as long as it would take to finish raid. Actually it should be 40 times harder (take 40 times more time) as all the loot goes to me alone. So basically and I repeat, I hardly fail in my role but it does not matter when there is so many people and if anybody fails all fail. I don't like to spend 6 hours raiding and not get anything because somebody has a bad day. You can tell what you want but raiding is just a cooperation problem for me. It's like with making a dinner. You cut carrot, I cut an apple but whomever coordinates cooking is the only person doing difficult job as particular mini tasks are not difficult. So I give raid leaders a credit but not that much to anybody else. And I believe that solo play with W* fight mechanics can be done to be much harder than any sensible raid content. If raid content was done to be for each raid member as hard as solo content can be, nobody would ever finish any raid. I don't want to involve maths into it. Maybe somebody else will help you understand my point.
  13. Woke

    Woke Cupcake

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    It may be a new game but that doesn't change that fact that if a new game has similar concepts to a game already released, than I can compare the two. Basically to me Wildstar comes off as a combination of WoW Vanilla with WoW BC with some sandbox concepts like player housing and dynamic events.

    I don't see why I can't compare Theme Park MMOs with a new Theme Park MMO with some sandbox concepts. This goes back to how apparently you dismissed my statement on how they have said this game is focused more on "Traditional Concepts" and that it is not a "Next Gen MMO." Not to mention MMOs that use the same Trinity System. If this part you keep bringing up isn't somewhat settled after having to explain it again, then I guess we can both agree to disagree.

    The dodge/rolling mechanic isn't anything new to MMOs. The double jump might be, but I could be wrong on this. Not sure where you were getting at with your Herme's Boots example but I'll take a couple of shots at it maybe I'll hit your point. If you were going down the Hard Content path, I don't see how equipping Boots that are required to avoid a death zone is hard. If you were going down the New Content path then I have played a lot of games that require certain Items to pass a certain obstacle. If you were going down the Cool Content path then I can mention how those Boots would have major balance issues.

    To be honest, I am right with you. If you can't comprehend the difference in difficulty in Raids to Solo Content then.... I even gave you an example on how to make Solo Content "Hardcore" but even with my example it shouldn't lead to equivalent Gear as Raiders. Other than my example I can't think of any mechanic or concept that can make Solo Content even close to the difficulty that Raids represent in PvE. I can list so many mechanics and concepts that are only in Raids but I feel like it will all fall on deaf ears. By your definition you could whine about Crafters not making equivalent gear to Raids or Dungeon players not getting equivalent gear to Raids.

    We both agree with one of those sentences.

    The discussion has always been the same. It is how to make Solo Content hard enough to where it requires Raid
    Tier LvL gear and I have yet to see a reasonable answer(in fact believe it to be impossible). You basically keep saying you don't know. I even gave you an example but even if my example is implemented it wouldn't be reasonable for that alone to give Solo Content equivalent Gear to 20 man raids or 40 man raids.

    I found one of your previous posts, so I now know a general idea of your Past Raid Exp. This is related to your current last post. You simple sound like you have never experienced "True" raiding with other skilled players, and now you have a sour grapes mentality because you raided with bad players.

    I actually feel a little bad that you never got to experience the fun of competitive hardcore raiding.

    Please give me an example of how to make Solo Content difficulty as hard as Raid Content.
  14. Kayelia

    Kayelia Cupcake

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    Let me clarify one thing. I certainly do not expect raid gear to outdo a solo gear for solo content unless something goes horribly wrong. I'm fine with that.

    I've been talking about a style of play that seems ignored. Just doing enjoyable stuff with a friend sounds like a simple thing, but actually finding content that works for it has proven harder than any raid boss. I consider myself a soloer. I have been known to try to solo almost everything (keyword: try). Yet I will still party with my friends quite frequently and want to do stuff with them. Finding content for that is almost impossible. Just adding another person throws 1 person balance out the window. Meanwhile, 5 person content won't let us in.

    In my current mmo, there's 1 person content, there's 5+ person content, and there's 10-25 person content. It is a frustrating situation when you want to do stuff with 2-4 people, but have to basically glitch into enabling 5 person content and 1 person content isn't good for 2-4 people. (And yes, we have the firepower to handle the 5 person content.) And that mmo is not the first time I've seen that situation.

    I'm not sure what else to say on this. I've been trying to talk about the collective solo+small group experience. It's not at all like what people keep thinking it is in these forums. The rigid "you need X people" logic doesn't really seem to work well at these sizes.

    I said I agreed with this, remember? ;)


    Lol, it's fine. It takes time for me to reply thoughtfully anyway. I may not be helping as I keep writing sections to connect the points together, then decide to reword it and then never get back to it. :oops:

    Edit: Removed unnecessary quote.
  15. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    @Woke
    Ok last try, my brains are going complete smash in real life with alot of sighs "Oh lord" happening at the same time. I am starting to feel you just want to troll me, or that I might speak different english dialect you do.

    A) Forget wildstar, forget wow. I now make a new game called Awesome Game, wich hopefully will be awesome.

    B) I want to create challenging content for all three different kinds of players, solo players, small group players, raid players.

    C) Question was a very general one:
    D) I ansvered how can one create gear that is separate for solo players and raid players.

    E) I said my examples are very crude, and by any means should not be considered good mechanics, or even interesting ones. It was to show, you can do it. And if my kind of a retard can come up with crude ways of separating the gear, I am sure a experienced gaming studio can come up with better ones.

    F) The example of :devilish:Death Zone!:devilish: was not suposed to be interesting mechanic, or even realistic one. It was meant to show that, if you balance something it is possible to reach the point where you want Item A over B. In :devilish:Death Zone!:devilish: example, you would be forced to use "Hermes's boots of even more epic swiftness than the lair it was dropped in" in order to complete the solo instance, wich hardly is good game design. It was not meant to show how something can be harder, as if you had read my posts completelly, you would see the discussion is about;
    G) I am sure there are ways to make solo content harder than raid content, if either of us can not come up with the ways to do so, it doesn't mean the way doesn't exist. If I don't or you don't have imagenation to come up a system to make solo content harder, it absolutelly does not mean it is impossible.

    H) I can not remember when was the last time I would had done hard raid content, wich would be hard for me personally as a individual player, and I have done End Game raiding since January 2007. I have also played Arena at 2600 MMR over the years, and I have to say that is way harder than PvE can ever be.

    I) Just list your self what makes raiding hard. After you have list of few items on your table, think how you can make those even harder. Most of it boils down to either numbers, timing, or space. How you can make solo content harder, I am sure you can draw conclusion from the sentence before.




    This is my last message about this discussion. I give up.

    Edit: Haha, I actually wrote the alphabet wrong, that is epic. In all seriousness tho, this discussion gave me a hellish headache.
  16. Bravadorado

    Bravadorado Cupcake-About-Town

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    I have very little time or ambition right now to read this whole thread, but I'd like to throw in my input here. Judging by the first handful of posts there is a lot of back and forth still going on about raiding, I'd like to say some things.

    Hardcore raiders aren't "out to get" casual players, they aren't bullies and they aren't trying to force you to lose content (Obviously some people are jerks, but I'm talking generally here). The reason that hardcore players are not okay with casuals getting to see the same content and get similar gear via LFR or scaled difficulty is because it is insulting. It's saying "You can do something way easier and still get nearly the same things!", and to anyone who actually wants to try, that is a huge slap in the face. Most casuals don't really understand what this is all about. It's not about wanting YOU to MISS OUT, it's about wanting the REWARD to take EFFORT. Content and items are the rewards from raiding and they are the rewards in most all MMOs even without raids. Let me say that in WoW before I quit I cam back from a hiatus of seven months. I had pre-firelands gear, and I went into LFR, the result was a completely done 25m DS in 1:30. 25 random people with no coordination, leadership, or tactics shoved into a scaled down raid that took a total of 1:30 (including queue times for both). That is 11 minutes and 15 seconds per boss with complete strangers.

    I don't know what kind of person you are, but if you seriously try to argue that that type of content is challenging, I have no respect for you in anything regarding an MMO. LFR was so pathetic that watching a youtube video of the fights was basically the exact same experience, and if you are in it to see the content, why not just do that?

    But I digress, casual players don't get that by making raids easier, not only are they taking A LOT away from the more motivated gamers but you are also straight up insulting them for wanting to TRY HARDER and WORK TOWARDS A GOAL.

    Some of you may ask, "What are we taking away from hardcore gamers by scaling difficulty?" The answer is literally EVERYTHING. Just like you play to have fun and see the world and lore and content in your free time, hardcore raiders enjoy countless hours of hardcore progression to earn their place in the annals of history. Let me ask you, what do casuals lose when raids are difficult? Content, perhaps, if the casual can't raid 4 hours a week (You could get through all of the content of a raid with 4 hours a week easily before the next raids come out if you have any motivation or skill or even a will to keep trying). Now, again, what does a hardcore raider lose? All of their content. They play the game for the difficulty of the raids, and to try and fail and then succeed and get the best gear and the coolest things. You would literally be taking away THE ONLY THING THEY TRULY CARE ABOUT in this game.

    In Wildstar specifically there will be tons of things for casuals to do as well. Leave raiding to the motivated and skillful, if you can't raid for 4 hours a week or don't want to try to get better so you can succeed, then raiding and an MMO isn't for you. Taking away the only thing hardcore raiders enjoy just so you can see the content that you clearly do not want to work at all to achieve is a horrible idea. And if you do want to achieve it but simply don't have the time then it's really tough luck, you can't blame the MMO when it's you that can't take 4 hours a week to progress on a boss.

    By the way, I'm a casual raider as well. I raid 12 hours a week maximum and I am more comfortable with 6-9. I like lore and content and all sorts of things besides raiding, but raiding is THE END GAME PROGRESSIVE CONTENT. It's what it's designed for and the rewards have ALWAYS been content and gear. I have the drive and attitude of a hardcore player, in that I want to be challenged and go through difficult steps to finally achieve victory and feel accomplished. If you don't have that drive then I'm sorry, but clearly raiding isn't for you. Asking to reap the rewards without putting in the same time and effort as everyone else is literally the same as exploiting the game. Think about it.

    TL;DR: Raiding is a raider's only content, don't make it easier and take it away from them. Some casuals want to see the content but put in little/no effort, time or skill to achieve them, if you are like this, then go watch the content on youtube. It's not like the game is going to get phased out and your world wont progress until you defeat X boss. And you aren't entitled to the rewards just because you play the game, paying the subscription is what gives you the right to the same exact content as everyone else. It does not give you the right to have to try significantly less hard to attain that content. The content is still there for you to take it, and if you are paying a subscription for a game you know you can't dedicate time to, well frankly that is a little silly I'd say.

    If you want the content to be plopped in your lap then just go google it, rather than take aspects of the game away from those who truly truly wish to try, progress, and achieve.
    Woke likes this.
  17. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    @Woke
    I think I now understand that we are having a debate of two different questions wich is why this conversation became so brainf**cking.

    Question I am trying to ansver is: Is there a way of making gear so that solo content gear is the best for that content, and raid gear is the best for that particular content and you wont be able to overpower neither with the other's gear.

    Question you are trying to ansver: Is it possible to make solo content harder than raid content.

    I did tho give some ansvers to your question too, but all my examples were for the gearing question.
  18. Woke

    Woke Cupcake

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    Yeah, we speak different languages. From this post I see some reasons why.

    I also competed in the 2k+ arena never got to 2600 but at 2k. I wouldn't say it is harder. This is a different area of gameplay and I'll avoid the wall of texts that I can go on with that topic alone.

    You miss so many of my points or maybe I am not explaining them right. I never said you can't give out competitive content for Solo and I am not against it. I am simply stating it will never be at the difficulty LvL of Raids.

    Let me put one last example which to be honest you will probably not understand. When you basically debate on a topic and use bad examples and keep saying you don't know how to implement something, then it doesn't look good. The fact is no game designer has been able to implement something to make Solo Content as difficult as Raid Content, heck not even as difficult as 5 man Content. If you want to believe this Traditional MMO will amaze us with some unbelievable Solo Content concept that has never been done since Games have been invented, then go ahead but don't hold your breath. Do you really think they wouldn't at least give us a Teaser on such a genius concept like how they have done WarPlots or Housing so far?
  19. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    @woke read the post ontop of your post
    Also:
    That actually shows we are not on the same page english wise... At all, or that you are a magnificent troll and I bow down to you :)

    Also at times I have so good consentration on details:

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    Well atleast got good laughs out of that epic win :)
  20. Woke

    Woke Cupcake

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    Very good Post, I cut the quote since it was so long. Basically everything I have been saying in this thread. I was trying to avoid a Wall of Text like yours though.:D Everyone can have all the Content in every area they desire, simply don't diminish our rewards by giving it to people who put in less effort.

    The only reason I keep commenting on these Hardcore subjects is because I have seen constantly in MMOs, how casuals cry and whine about everything and eventually they get there way and destroy every competitive aspects of MMOs.
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