Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by kongpong, Dec 4, 2013.
if thats an example of Frost's mad bro skills then Team Pappy all day!
ditto on the ditto, that was almost the only thing I was searching for with this AMA
I have high hopes for the Medic, but MMO history is against this class already:
My first experience with this type of healer was the Friar and Warden of Dark Age of Camelot. Both classes had good defensive abilities and melee weapon skills; however, the majority of their time was spent standing in the back, chain-casting heals.
Next came Warhammer Online and their Warrior Priest/Disciple of Khaine. These classes had the combined damage/healing abilities (smack people in the face with a hammer or knife and get AoE heals) as well as some targeted, cast-time heals. However, when the game launched the playerbase quickly learned you could manipulate the class mechanics such that you could, again, stand in the back and heal better than the other 2 classes that were designed to be the back-line casters. There wasn't much need to ever get in melee range. Mythic even started designing gear to help this style rather than get the class back into melee range.
And then Wowcraft designed the Monk class. This one had a few healing spells you could cast at range, or you could punch things in the face and heal the people around you (stop me if you've heard this before). It had the option to weave back and forth from melee to range, building resources as necessary. But early in that expansion, the players decided that "fistweaving" was inferior for progression and that the Monk should, again, stand at range and cast its heals.
I hope Carbine can make the Medic and it's "short-to-medium-range" healer work. But previous attempts by other games have fallen short. Most people seem to like the safety and comfort of being on the back line, casting their heals while watching TV.
I haven't heard of this but then again I have been out of the MMO market for several months, outside of Neverwinter. The first thought though is when talking about these classes "healing from the back/range" which you described as being not the design intent, how are those players able to heal better than the designed range healers?
That doesn't really make sense, if short ranged/melee heals are designed to be better and ranged heals are only supposed to be rarely used, then how does this happen?
What type of progression are we talking about here, I would question if "players" deciding this is better, are flex/normal players...or are they actually heroic progression players, remember there were "players" who also decided that Wildgrowth spam and Priest shield spam was the best way to heal in Wrath, but I would question the expertise of those players.
Shield/Rejuv spam was the best way to deal with the overuse of persistent aoe damage in Wrath, especially since the near infinite mana meant there was no drawback, and throw in a legendary that also benefits from this spam and that is the situation you get. It was boring, but effective, also lolmeters.
Ya that was sort of my point, situational in certain fights, and usually done in normal mode. Doing a total reverse of a class design because it ends up being easier and/or more effective than whats intended, is a developer issue. Infinite mana was bad design, and the power/effectiveness of shield/WG spam was also bad design, on top of the encounter accommodating that style.
These same points could be said about all of the games and classes that ninja pointed to above. If the design allows people to do that, then the finger points at the dev for making that possible in the first place, or not fixing it immediately if it comes up.
I would think by 22 you at least see the core mechanics of your class in play, which we did. Priest is very different than a Medic. Lastly the devspeak video didn't exactly show much more. AMA mentions channels but odd they didn't show anything off that makes their attacks standout.
Sorry. Thought it was obvious what I mean by auto-attacking. Use Builder then attack with nukes in between applying station fields and using/exploding dots.
Well lets see: Warriors has AoE shockwaves, ranged blasts, deathgrip, a rush technique, can apply a field onto an enemy similar to the probe, whirlwind, and grenades to constantly apply pressure.
Espers turn into unicorns& a Pheonix, summon mini-pets, have very visual abilities, most CC, armor they can apply to themselves or others, very appealing to anyone who likes Nukes, some abilities make them mobile so they aren't that stationary.
Spellslingers Devspeak video I think illustrates perfectly why you would want to run one. Nuker, Sniper, acrobatic gunslinger, switch places with people, chill in void, teleport and/or dash around, and elemental spells so it's not all generic blaster fire.
Stalkers have positional combat, clones, combat stealth, multiple options to get in and out of combat, and are implied to be rather good at CC like the Esper.
With the first four Devspeak vidoes we either got rundowns on all the crazy stuff they can do or we saw little but could tell it was just the tip of the iceberg. Medic video seems to show only what I described. Apply Dots&marks then build and unload with attacks. Repeat.
I'm talking mechanics. Everybody dodges telegraphs.
I know. Hoping I didn't need to clarify.
What was the first comment supposed to mean?
The difference between the medic and your other examples is the effective range on healing. Your other examples were all classes that had melee options, but still had the ability to sit back and aoe heal (especially in warhammer where the melee healers were better at aoe healing). The medic doesn't have this ability, the range on their heals looked very short to me in the video.
So if all the heals are short range, it'll be impossible to sit back at range. Your heals won't reach.
That's not to say that the medic won't sit in the back anyways. In pvp a short range can be dangerous, who knows how it will turn out. The medic might end up being best used for peels in your back line to defend espers and spellslingers.
made me wonder if you had watched the vid. In the very first encounter Frost starts out by saying he likes opening with a Devastator Probe and you can see the telegraph, and it’s been already mentioned that Frost showed and explained the Devastator Probe later on.
Everything else is subjective; even though I was looking forward to a Melee focused Medic I liked the Medic Devspeak, and I liked Frost’s Medic vid. In my opinion the Medic has no less available options than any of the other classes, and in my opinion you’re biased against the Medic because it turned out to not be melee.
Something else to note, Frost is a Production Designer, not a Class Designer like the Devs that were running the characters in the livestreams, and he had to answer all of the questions while running the character unlike the Devs that were running the characters in the livestreams.
Auto-attack and Spam attack are not synonymous; so if you mean spam attack then say spam attack or expect to be called on it.
Note, the attacks you call Spam attacks are still press-aim-release just like all other free-form attacks, they just happen to have a 0 cycle time.
That is his point though, no developer has commit to (and players have not embraced) the "melee" healer because it has a lot of balance issues in PVE and PVP. Both the range limitations and the damage+healing spells combine to make a class that will be difficult to balance. I commend Carbine for committing to this style of healing, but it could easily blow up in their face.
To be fair, the Medic doesn't have an obvious hook. All of the other classes have something you can immediately point to and say, that ability looks fun, or you could easily describe in a sentence to someone. We have not seen anything flashy (except spell effects) from the Medic. Probes and fields might be effective, but they certainly are not as interesting as the abilities that Kujaix described above. That doesn't mean that the class is not fun to play, but it certainly has the most lackluster Devspeak and the IGN video doesn't help much in that regard.
I don't know, close/middle range healer was enough to get me hyped. And since I love HoTs and DoTs the hype got even bigger. And fields? Give me more of those.
In my opinion, it's just comes down to different tastes.
The stuff Kujaix described was described specifically in a way to try accentuate the other classes and down the medic, he simply has something against them.
The medic has It's hooks though, I for one will not heal on a Spellslinger or Esper because of their style but I find Medic healing to look incredibly appealing and will likely do it, The reason I would play it? are it's hooks.
People describe probes as basic and simple, some are and some aren't depending on if they are ones that can be detonated, at which point you need to keep track of the times on the probes.
Stations? again in this thread are described as incredibly simple, while the thought of them may be simple they can also add a real interesting aspect to them, seeing that you could either place it in the fray to set a field where the fighting is, or set it to the side for people to activate when needed. This hands more thought to the medic on if it is worth dropping the cooldown of the station earlier for ease of healing or if its better to save for those clutch moments.
The biggest part of why I am very interested in the Medic though, is that it has something like only 2 abilities that are targeted, everything else is free-form targeting, this is a HUGE part of why i am interested in it, an almost 100% free-form targeting healer is really appealing.
And people in this thread saying the Medics abilities aren't as flashy as the other classes? are seriously going out of their way to try and down medics. The medic's abilities are extremely flashy, but in it's own style, and if someone can't see that and wants to attack the medic over it? I think they need their eyes checked.
Medics are lazor light shows the flashyest of the flashy. I would love to heal with this class but i have a hatred for dual wielding which allows me to only heal with an esper T_T. Anyways The best part of a medic is ALL heals are able to be used on the move. This makes it the most active healer because you never have to stand still. I think this class is going to accel in AOE heals for stacking mechanics and for a melee healer because it can move all the time and plant stuff for people to use. Plus that ability exritcate i think it was called pretty much force pull from SWTOR except heals your ally vs the aggro dump. Not to mention your heals do dmg at the same time if aligned right. If anything medics are the best healing class right now.
A hook is something that gets someone interested without any outside knowledge. Each of the previous Devspeak videos had a unique character to them (some with Frost even doing a different voice for) and some unique and interesting abilities. The only somewhat amusing thing in the video was how it was a terribly kept secret. The Medic has unique and fun abilities they could have shown in the Devspeak, and one of the ones they showed they didn't highlight.
The Medic also doesn't have easily comparable counterparts in other games, so it would make sense to make a more interesting video. You already can get people to play the other classes since they are based on more easily recognizable archetypes. Also, saying hybrid healer and damage dealer can raise red flags to people who have played other MMOs.
Like I said, none of this means the Medic won't be an interesting class to play, with interesting mechanics. I am looking forward to the Medic because I want a real melee healer to succeed, it looks fun to play in the Livestream, and it fits my style. But, I think the Medic video was fairly lackluster.
So why does it have to be taken down to the devspeak alone? This counts anything they have officially released / stated. And we know from what they have said that the Medic is a highly mobile class that has almost every ability using the free-form targeting.
I agree taking the devspeak alone as the only info it was a bit lackluster but one thing I would call a ''hook'' in the devspeak is the tron like abilities they are aiming for (I know this is part of why I like the look of the Medic), the rest of it is just a brief overview of what they can do.
They probably could have given a little better info in the devspeak alone, but you have to remember the devspeak isn't the only official info released.
The Medic Devspeak hooked me.
I was disappointed that the Medic was called the Medic, and that it was not a melee class. I was indifferent to the Medic weapon, and the one short ranged attack we had already seen did nothing for me either. I tried to go into the Devspeak unbiased, but I would say that I was on the “not” side of like/not like equation…until I saw this
at the “only weaponized” statement. I liked the graphics and I liked how the Dev emphasized it with the “only weaponized” statement. I was now interested in the Medic. I saw the Fields and Probes, and now I was enthused about the Medic. I still don’t like the name, and I’m still indifferent about the weapon, but the class now looks like it would be fun to play.
The Devspeak did its job for me.
Yeah boi, Pappy gon' put Frost on ice!