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Modding and Crafting Changes to CBC

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by CRB_Gortok, Aug 8, 2013.

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  1. CRB_Gortok

    CRB_Gortok Carbine Econ Designer

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    I know I have been pretty invisible here lately. A big part of that is because we have been working really hard to respond to beta feedback to improve the game. While I won't be going into details about the changes at this time, Circuit Board Crafting is undergoing some revisions that are significant.

    We found in beta that players were falling into two fairly distinct categories:
    1. People who understood the crafting and modding system, and would customize their gear to be optimal. These people would have the correct stats at the right levels to be effective in combat.
    2. People who mostly ignored the system because they were unaware of it, intimidated by it, disinterested in it, or whatever reason. These people would get items that were poorly statted for them and continue to use them. This would severely gimp their ability to be effective in combat, and negatively affect their experience.
    Our specific goal is to make item modding more accessible, more exciting, and less punishing to players who are not as familiar with the mechanics of stats and how they affect things like DPS, Healing, and Tanking. To this end we have drastically simplified the system at early levels while still trying to maintain interesting depth of choice at later levels. It still uses a lot of the core, underlying systems from Circuit Board Crafting, but it does so in a way that is more streamlined.

    As a bonus side effect, this allows us to address another issue that we have been thinking about a lot lately. We have heard a lot of feedback that crafting (using CBC) is not really interesting anymore. None of the choices made during crafting really had a long term impact because players could just modify and change any microchips a crafter put in, so effectively there was a lack of meaningful choice while crafting an item.

    We have decided to make the core of the item unchangeable after it is created. This means the modifications always add something on top of the item, rather than changing existing stats or specials on the item. This makes decisions made by crafter exponentially more relevant, and a good crafter will have to know what stats are desirable on the item they are making.

    I am really comfortable with the changes we are making and I am excited for you guys to be able to dive into this stuff soon.

    Primus/Gortok
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  2. Mellkor

    Mellkor Well-Known Cupcake

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    I hate to sound so negative but this and the state of beta address makes me feel both sad and concerned respectively.

    Systems like these seem to bring to light that's its an orchestrated illusion of choice with only slight variations of customization.

    If i may pose a question/suggestion: Why dont you place systems that aid people in becoming more proficient rather than bring the whole system down to the "nubs" level?
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  3. Reeve

    Reeve Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm going to reserve judgment, since I obviously haven't tried it, but my feeling is that crafting systems that are good SHOULD be complex enough that some people will make bad choices.
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  4. teh_ninjaneer

    teh_ninjaneer Cupcake-About-Town

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    I obviously haven't tried the system either, but I agree completely with the above statement. CRB_Gortok's explanation makes me feel like what was a complex system has just been "dumbed down" to a_wowcraft_crafting_clone_005.
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  5. Rare Spawn

    Rare Spawn Cupcake

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    I have not tried the circuit board system, obviously, but I do hope you have not 'dumbed it down' so to speak. It's not bad or unexpected to have a learning curve at the beginning of a game.

    Hell, in vanilla WoW I was level 25 before I figured out I had talent points that I could use! Someone pointed it out, and I was a better player for it. I also ended up joining that persons guild...so it actually added to the gaming community for me.

    I think having a more complex chipping system would similarly allow for experienced players to interact with less experienced players, bringing the community closer.

    Having to learn something new is not a bad thing. Just put in the tools to do it correctly!

    You could maybe add in a 'choose for me' option for chipping gear at lower levels that would be close to optimal, but not as optimal as if you really knew what you were doing.
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  6. Zellfel

    Zellfel Cupcake-About-Town

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    To be fair, this can be found in MMOs all over the place. While your distinctions can be true, people wearing gear with incorrect stats can also fall into distinct categories.

    1. A person who simply does not care if it's not optimally statted for them as long as it's a new piece of gear to replace something that's far behind what they should be wearing at their level.
    2. A person who is simply unaware of what stats are best for their respective class + role and have no idea where to begin to find out.
    #1 will happen because people are people, but is there currently a method in place to combat #2? You say that the system was ignored by lack of awareness which I assume you'll probably implement ways to bring peoples' attention to it via a tutorial or even a quest line. I'm curious if Carbine is either implementing or considering implementing a way to educate the playerbase as to the value of the stats (both primary and secondary) that doesn't require theorycrafting and complex math that intimidates a large amount of players? I think if you could do this in conjunction with the CBC simplification and education it would go a long way to help players grasp what they should be looking for.

    I already appreciate the way the combat system is meant to educate the players, as from what I've seen the difficulty ramps up throughout the game to prepare you for end content. Applying this approach to the CBC system is a step in the right direction.
  7. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    id suggest making a dev speak about how to mod your gear (at a basic level) instead of nerfing the system. that being said another reason people skip crafting is because it doesn't offer them enough bonus for the effort required to make the devices .. in other games that is. <<---- isnt in beta !_!
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  8. CRB_Gortok

    CRB_Gortok Carbine Econ Designer

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    We are making the impact of modding less important at low levels to allow players get introduced to it. We are making it an "add on" system so that it requires you to act to get anything out of it, meaning that players won't just leave it alone as "good enough" like they can do with CBC Modding.

    Everyone starts out as a "nub". The goal is to make a progression that is engaging and develops a great depth so that players can grow their knowledge and understanding without being completely gimped if they haven't figured it out yet.


    I agree completely, and that is why the stat circuits that a player puts in while crafting need to be permanent. If the player itemizes poorly, then no one will want their items. However, there are costs and risks involved with trying to itemize perfectly as well.[/quote]
  9. CRB_Gortok

    CRB_Gortok Carbine Econ Designer

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    To be clear, this is not a nerf. We are actually implementing several entirely new subsystems with new code that is built on the existing CBC system. We are simplifying the presentation, moving around the emphasis and creating depth in other areas.

    You make some great points. There are going to be people who don't understand the stat systems. We definitely want to do everything we can to engage them and help them learn. Traditionally this is a smaller percent of the population than we saw not engaging in the CBC system.
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  10. kongpong

    kongpong Cupcake

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    "x .. is undergoing some revisions that are significant." the more I read\hear about changes that are big really drag me down. I understand they are listening to the lucky people that have got to play the beta but if people are falling into 2 categories that to me means this...

    Group A: People that love games and respect the fact they got picked for beta and are taking the time to learn the game and really how to play. So yes they understand crafting because they did the time to learn and respect how it works.

    Group B: People that signed up for Beta..got picked..and now they get to play a free game and are going through the motions. Some yes might not understand crafting but who cares really..their bad.

    So..where is group C? the people they sorta get it..so its either you get it or you dont..strange.

    With such a small sample of people actually getting into closed beta and it being 8 months into the year the game is supposed to be released to start making "significant" changes to anything just makes me think...not good things.

    With that said, yes I want the best game possible but it seems late into the dev process to be making so many different game changing changes.
  11. CRB_Gortok

    CRB_Gortok Carbine Econ Designer

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    We were not satisfied that what we had was accomplishing what we wanted to. This is iterative game design. We are looking to improve things we aren't satisfied about. I am somewhat baffled to the negative response we get from saying "X wasn't good enough so we are fixing it"
  12. Rare Spawn

    Rare Spawn Cupcake

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    I think most of us are worried it isn't a fix, but a 'nerf'.
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  13. CRB_PChan

    CRB_PChan Carbine Studios

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    Circuit Board Crafting is now more interesting, dynamic, and exclusive. If you can't cut it in the CBC world, go Mod like a nub.
  14. teh_ninjaneer

    teh_ninjaneer Cupcake-About-Town

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    If the crafter is free to put any "stat circuit" into the item at creation, rather than having to craft a specific pre-designated item (that requires a specific circuit), then I can probably go along with this modified system.

    As long as the player is still given the option to craft a poor, undesirable item, then he will eventually learn after his product has been on the auction house for a week.
  15. AimLock

    AimLock Cupcake

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    Rare Spawn "Hell, in vanilla WoW I was level 25 before I figured out I had talent points that I could use! Someone pointed it out, and I was a better player for it. I also ended up joining that persons guild...so it actually added to the gaming community for me." I did something even dumber I rolled a shaman, speced for the magic caster type "enhance'" ? and had all melee gear :( . Quit at high 40,s because I couldn't finish quests before respawn , lol .Is that what we want <redacted> off noob ? Everyone has to start somewhere ?

    A year later with a friends help I went back stayed till cata . Many mmos later I'm better but not that much , last year I jumped into GW2 on day two . No reading no wait didn't care about lore etc , I liked it quite a bit but it wasnt till I got to end game that I found out that "talent" trees had "spell" types like shouts etc :).

    So I say to Azmundai should every dev speak be a must read ? WOW are making an in game store because most of there customers dont go to the web site ! I never did .

    They need to cater for both "group" "A " and group "B" . In my opinion they need to work on the training systems as much as the choices that are made !
  16. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    Cool!
  17. Mukesh

    Mukesh Cupcake

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    I definitely see how it adds depth. As a crafter, I now want to put the best chips into the best gear I can make. It creates lots of little interesting quirks in the economy as well.

    And let's be honest, true choice in an mmo is nearly impossible. You will have people complaining about how x isn't as string or viable as y. So y is buffed and people complain about homogenization. I don't think it's a bad thing if every dps stalker that raids chases a primary and secondary stat, as long as not every spec if every class is chasing the same thing.
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  18. Rare Spawn

    Rare Spawn Cupcake

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    I'm speaking my mind, so sue me.

    I don't have direct access, so I guess I just have to take your word for it that it is indeed more interesting, dynamic, and exclusive. I think our biggest fear is that we all saw what happened to WoW when they started dumbing things down for the general populous...it just seems to be a slippery slope.
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  19. Vyver

    Vyver "That" Cupcake

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    any change in anything is a nerf to the average mmo player

    we're a skittish untrusting bunch

    "we changed the red hairstyle from #ff0000 to #db0000."

    "FKHSDIU NERF ITSA NERF THEYRE NERFING IT FOR NOOBS WARGLEBARGLENERFINTURFTYURD"
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  20. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    they are just anxious to play the game (some of them anyway).
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