1. Hey Guest! If you're more than just a WildStar fan and want to keep up on the latest MMO news, reviews and opinion pieces then I'd like to suggest you visit our sister site MMO Central

Multiple raid modes confirmed, what do you think?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by John, Feb 22, 2013.

?

Which do you prefer?

  1. One raid difficulty

    87 vote(s)
    54.7%
  2. Two raid difficulties

    72 vote(s)
    45.3%
  1. Praiz

    Praiz Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Yes, but that's not to say that raids won't have two difficulties as well. I was a wondering if we could get a definitive on this.
  2. Batzorig

    Batzorig Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    28
    That... wouldn't really make much sense. He made a point of posting in order to clear up confusion, and said dungeons were what they were referring to as having two modes. Now... why would he post that at all if raids had two modes? Unless they've changed that plan, that makes it pretty clear that raids have 1 mode.
    Kataryna likes this.
  3. Draegan

    Draegan Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    8
    There were also interviews that went further to state that 40 man and 20 man raids were separate instances. Not the same raid at two different sizes.
    Lyas Tyrell and Kataryna like this.
  4. Praiz

    Praiz Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Yeah, raid size was never the issue. I guess I'll just have to wait and see on this one.
  5. Kalmander

    Kalmander Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Likes Received:
    334
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Costa Rica, Central America
    Actually, I would prefer 5-6 raid and dungeon difficulties... Difficulty/challenge settings are like underwear, there is just not one size that will fit us all.

    Some people are really good players, other people, not so much. So having only 1 difficulty setting will be a bit too hard for some, and incredibly easy for others. That's just not good. We should have the normal setting they are planning, then an easier setting (for the less coordinated players), then a tougher setting (for a nice challenge), and an impossible setting. I don't care if only 0.1% of the players will be able to complete the impossible setting, but it gives a goal to people.

    That's just my take on it...
  6. John

    John "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Likes Received:
    618
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    USA
    To me that really cheapens all the modes, there isn't much thrill in killing these 'epic' bosses when anyone who is willing to login can do the same thing.
  7. Tiosav

    Tiosav New Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    This is exactly the thing that killed all excitement in WoW raiding, for me best solution was to nerf raids before new patch.

    Please do not make instances and raids easy, make people to play them because content not just rewards after few hours of grinding. Remember for example original BRD from vanilla WoW, or Dire maul instances for small groups with epic tribute run. Spent like 9 hours in Alcatraz to obtain key for The EyE. All the things that makes me and my friends feel epic.

    I'm observing with thrill everything in WildStar, and every thing I heard until now I like.
    Keep holy trinity, make one raid mode, world PVP, no cross server LFG, fractions, music - sounds...

    Carbine studios got it all right.
  8. Xandita

    Xandita Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    Likes Received:
    39
    Trophy Points:
    18
    You can still feel epic. Because there are multiple modes does not mean that will detract from how you feel getting server first or world first. There will be more competition of course, which I think is pretty fine. It's difficult to please everyone in games like this.

    Anyways, holy trinity is in, there two different types of raids, world PvP is in, not sure about xrealm LFG, factions exist, there will be music, you will get to hear the sound of Aurins dying.
  9. John

    John "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Likes Received:
    618
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    USA
    It does, at least for me. A huge part of the fun and thrill for me is just seeing a place that is so badass that only a handful of the bravest fighters can even enter it. When anyone who can click a que button is able to see the same thing, the allure and magic of the place is gone.

    This is coming from someone who generally plays in mid-level guilds that very well may never even see all the raid content in the game. I still prefer having that 'forbidden mystery' sense of truly epic raid instances and the feeling that there is something much grander than me out there. Its a real challenge to get there, but when you do its infinitely more awesome than any LFD-type-mode could even dream of.
    Tiosav and Kataryna like this.
  10. Tiosav

    Tiosav New Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Nah, thing I see there is bunch of noobs running in the cheap epics, content is still more important and I wont to deserve to see it, after some easy LFR mode run the thrill just disappears, . Also few raid modes makes people to rush thru content... It is not fun(been there seen that). But I agree it attracts younger population, more money, easier to control community, less work to do.

    :p
  11. Xandita

    Xandita Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    Likes Received:
    39
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Considering that Youtube exists it would be difficult to keep such a mystery secret (unless, for instance, all the top guilds in the world never upload it).

    I understand how you feel though. I haven't missed that thrill personally. I enjoyed the server first/world first feel more (which was mostly a bunch of guys screaming and that pocket female). But, I think I see it more from a developer's standpoint since getting people to see the content and experience it is probably more important to them.

    Who knows. Maybe I have too much of a "casual" mindset when it comes to these things.
  12. John

    John "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Likes Received:
    618
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    USA
    I think its a fine line between 'letting people experience the content' and 'keeping a sense of wonder'. On the surface it seems like 'more people seeing content=better', but I think that is oversimplifying it.

    There needs to be that mystery in the world, that feeling that something grand is out there. The game world gains a ton of authenticity when there are truly powerful monsters in it that are nearly impossible to kill.

    To me, that intangible authenticity and sense of wonder is a huge benefit of having elite raid content. If other games are any indication, that sense of wonder actually does more to grow and maintain a playerbase than accessibility does.
    Malorak likes this.
  13. Kalmander

    Kalmander Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Likes Received:
    334
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Costa Rica, Central America
    So it's bad to make raids for 1% of the population, and it's also bad to make raids for 99% of the population? What do you propose then?

    Of course different difficulty settings would have different rewards, but there really is no reason for everyone not to see all the content. Does having other people see the same content you experienced, suddenly make your run in hard mode less fun? or valuable?

    There is nothing wrong with wanting to feel epic, and I'm all for Carbine providing ways for people to feel epic. However, I'm against people that want to feel "epic" at the expense of other people not able to experience the same content. It would really sadden me as a game programmer if not everyone that purchased my game can experience all of the content...
    Naunet and Rumze like this.
  14. Deloim

    Deloim Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Finland
    I would rather have more moderate lvl raid bosses to pwn than just another difficulty.

    Speaking of raids i sincerely hope that they add a lot of really hard endgame bosses around the world (plenty for everyone) as open world bosses. One of my fondest memories of vanilla was the emerald dream dragons on a pvp server. Top quilds rushing around the world to find which ones spawned and then the full raid pvp matches on who gets to try it first and after those warmups people continued to instanced raid content. Loosers first or after the first failed try and let the other grp get their chance.

    Maybe add kill buffs to incentive going for those first.

    And ofcourse a couple very hard ones that maybe need some contradictory faction co-operation to down, not for the imba loot but just for the insanity of the challenge.
    Malorak likes this.
  15. Tiosav

    Tiosav New Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    This, for example

    Point to this,
    To add this, as well said too,
    No hard feelings it is just my opinion, make quality thing with long and beautiful content and people will play your game, or go easy way with same content but different quality settings to attract "more" people is just excuse to work less, u may always add pandas to attract big Asian market, if u want to play really low :D
  16. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2013
    Likes Received:
    586
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    UK
    So many people seem to forget that the reason raiding became so popular was because of it's difficulty and entry barriers, Raiding as a whole (at the moment) has somehow gone from an endgame challenge to a slogfest. In the past raids weren't the only way to feel fulfilled from MMO's but it was the way to get the top (PvE) gear. People wanted to be those guys stood in the major cities in the best looking gear, lightning arcing off them.

    There is an aspect of "everyone deserves to experience the content", however, with an MMO you're meant to get a world of diverse content, some solo focused and others requiring groups. The truth of it is though that if someone isn't good enough (even after trying) to get past a level on the easiest difficulty on a singleplayer game, they simply won't get past that level. Why is it that MMO dev seems to think that they need to develop for the lowest common skill denominator???

    The problem with difficulty modes - or at least their current implementation - is that they provide a ladder to get to the harder difficulty, so once you finally get your kill on normal, you've farmed enough gear that going to hardmode isn't much of a step up! Hardmodes need to be radically different fights and maybe even with extra bits of the instance thrown in. The best example I can give of this is Mimiron HM in Ulduar 25 and then Alganon, where Alganon was "Hard-mode only" and Mimiron was just a brilliantly different fight to it's normal mode.
    Malorak likes this.
  17. Malorak

    Malorak Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Likes Received:
    146
    Trophy Points:
    43
    ^This.

    Some games are hard. Deal.With.It.

    If you can't beat it, you can't beat it, end of story. If you're not good at...I.E megaman 9 then either get better or..Get out. They won't give you a super dooper power up to beat the game (nintendo does that for no <REDACTED>ing reason. I don't even get why...Mario's not that hard <.<) so you better become a good player or you just stop.

    I don't get it why do MMO's need to be as easy as possible? Geez. A game's either hard or has a good learning curve, everything else isn't good. No challenge<Insane Challenge<Good learning curve with fitting difficulty.

    Uhh...Okay. Wildstar devs actually once said something along the lines that Raids will be so big and so hard that my grandma can't beat them (which if I were like 60 would take as a challenge^^) so...You have that, I guess.
    Tiosav likes this.
  18. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2013
    Likes Received:
    586
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    UK
    Apparently quoting you makes a magical section of text that I can't see in the QP at all appear. I'm not prejudging WS as we'll see when we get in, I'm more arguing against their modern implementation.

    The concepts of raiding are not difficult to understand, the player skill comes in with practice by weaving those concepts so you're maxxing your trinity field (threat, healing, damage) whilst avoiding as much incoming as possible.

    MMO's especially WS due to it's telegraph system, gives players more than enough practice to "not stand in the red ****.", raiding should expect the highest level of competence (so far) on entry and not be there to train people up through the raid.
    Malorak likes this.
  19. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2013
    Likes Received:
    339
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Why is it that you people continue to insist that players asking for multiple difficulties or smaller raid sizes or whatever asking for Carbine to cater to the "lowest common skill denominator"? Argh. It's enough to make me want to pull out my hair.
  20. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2013
    Likes Received:
    586
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    UK
    Raid sizes were never mentioned, I'm fine with multi-size raids and even in my other post I imply that I'm OK with tiered difficulties as long as they are done properly and not purely a scalar value applied to damage and hp.

    My problem with multi-difficulty raiding is the laddering effect that means that once you've farmed your gear from normal - "hardmode" just becomes normal again (effectively negating the difficulty) as you can push out bigger numbers due to all the gear upgrades and you already know the tactics.

    I also never said Carbine are catering to the lowest skill denominator, all of my statements on multi difficulty are pretty much taken from WoW's implementation, as I've also said I haven't played WS so it would be unfair of me to judge. In WoW's implementation, they do cater to the lowest common skill denominator - you only have to see the years of complaints regarding the ever reducing difficulty in their raid content post WoTLK.

    So please before you cherry pick my posts for something to generalise me in with "you people" whilst not providing any counter argument, read what I've posted.

Share This Page