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My PvP Concerns (From Reddit AMA Tier List)

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Honoracy, Mar 24, 2013.

  1. Nekofest

    Nekofest Cupcake-About-Town

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    Banning?
    More like it's up to Carbine to ensure players don't have the tools necessary to exploit the system and whatever exploits are discovered are quickly rectified.
  2. PlayerOne

    PlayerOne Cupcake-About-Town

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    <Mod Monocle> Flaming removed. </Mod Monocle>
  3. Nekofest

    Nekofest Cupcake-About-Town

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    It's difficult to appreciate the potential Warplots have if your PvP experience has been limited to arenas and BGs.

    And that experience ruined by chaotic zergfests like GW2 WvWvW.

    I relate Warplots back to my experience playing PlanetSide 2 with over a hundred people coordinating together on TS3 for large scale operations. I doubt Warplots will be anywhere near that scale, but they certainly have much to offer that I don't think any other MMO has offered before.

    The primary feature here being able to build your own fortress. Most games feature a "capture and hold this static structure" that gets boring if there is no engaging metagame around the system. I feel this is one of the reasons why GW2 and PS2 both sucked for their wPvP.

    Warplots also remind me of tower defense games. And not the ones where there is a fixed path and you build on the sides of that path. I'm talking about the ones that allow you to build intricate mazes.

    I hope how well you construct your warplot is a significant factor in what showcases skill differences between warparties. As well as offering opportunities to exploit structural weaknesses in your opponent's fortress design.

    Another element of depth, and I feel one of utmost importance, is terrain. If you ask me, warplots are going to suck if it's two castles across from each other on an open field. Especially if they are in close proximity. Randomized terrain with randomized warplot locations would make for pretty good skirmishes as each team tries to locate the other's fortress. This would be on a such larger scale than the impression I've been given about warplots thus far.

    We don't know anything about how warplots are designed though so it's difficult to talk much about them.

    Will it be something you can continuously queue up and do all day, every day? Or will you need to recuperate after a battle to repair your structures? How costly will warplots be to create and maintain?

    I imagine them being something you do a couple times a week and although not the primary field for PvP, certainly one with enough incentive for people to participate in.

    I would also expect teams to naturally gravitate towards all doing warplots on the same days / around the same times. Or it's all cross-server on top of that to keep the competition fresh and keep queue times reasonable.

    It's likely features such as randomized spawn locations and randomized terrain are unrealistic to implement. But I definitely feel like warplots are going to be lackluster if it's two fortresses in the middle of an open field slapped against each other with each zerg rushing to the other's doorstep.
  4. Honoracy

    Honoracy Cupcake-About-Town

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    I ran across that the other day. I was actually quiet surprised that they are taking that approach. They seem to really be about the skill factor which is pleasing to see.

    I always found world PVP awesome fun, but more a bonus while leveling/questing etc. Before battleground in WOW were around I did nothing but world pvp in the foothills. It would be pretty cool and interesting if they had some sort of world pvp elo. Maybe it could give some titles, mounts and other trophy awards. It would be pretty rad!

    This indeed would happen, but only a small portion. I like to think a large portion of people who play games love them and don't take the scumbag paths. The people win trading will be striped of all rewards and banned. We can't prevent people from doing wrong, but they can be punished. We shouldn't limit our fun because of people who can't appreciate something and enjoy it the way it was intended. Great point though.
  5. wormed

    wormed Cupcake

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    Yea, but make sure those players continue to play. Good call.
  6. Nekofest

    Nekofest Cupcake-About-Town

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    And why shouldn't they be able to continue playing the game?
  7. Tramazing

    Tramazing New Cupcake

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    I like this plain and simple

    Haha my server was the first to do that. The sith and republic just shared/traded off kills in ilum.
  8. wormed

    wormed Cupcake

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    Because they're deliberately cheating? Knowingly exploiting a system within the game? Gaining an unfair advantage over other players?

    Are you actually going to reply with something like 'CARBINE SHOULD'VE HAD FAIL SAFES!!' or something equally moronic? People WILL find exploits, that's a guarantee. Utilizing them for gain is cheating. Period.
  9. qqmoarploxify

    qqmoarploxify Cupcake-About-Town

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    One thing to add, Idk if it's mentioned somewhere else, but summong riad bosses you've "captured." Isn't that forcing PvPer's to go into hardcore PvE to compete?
  10. Mierelle

    Mierelle Cupcake-About-Town

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    This is one way to get one tool for your Warplot, far from "the way you have to do it". The only thing I get out of this statement is that a PvE focused guild can go into Warplots without having to focus on PvP to get their warplot started. I'm sure Carbine have worked alot on this so when it gets down to it, a Warparty will get different perks for investing time in different kinds of Elder game, you get a gient dragon for PvEing and a "warmachine" for PvP or something... they look different, they effect the match differently but you do not need to get any of it.

    In short: Yes, they force PvPers to PvE if they want a world boss in their Warplot, but there is a lot of different stuff they can get from just PvPing
  11. Chomag

    Chomag Cupcake-About-Town

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    Funny but in WoW, most of the pro pvp-ers were also part of pro pve guilds.
    Honoracy likes this.
  12. Summerlack

    Summerlack New Cupcake

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    Yeah. Skill is skill. Has little to do with fighting internet dragons vs. players.
  13. Cassp

    Cassp Cupcake

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    I have no idea how the system works so this is just speculation, I'd have to assume the bosses you can capture won't be particularly strong, like maybe metal maw or something like the easy pvp/pve loot bosses in wow.

    But the idea of summoning something like yogg'saron onto a battleground is amusing.
  14. Nekofest

    Nekofest Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm going to reply with: Banning is the death penalty in a game and should be reserve for the worst offenses. The severity of a punishment is generally determined by the weight of the crime.

    An exploit could be anything from abusing the AI being bad for a boss fight for an easy kill, finding items that sell to vendors for way more than their actual worth, or glitching through a barrier in a BG to get an early start. Even using a spell which is doing more damage than it's intended to do is technically an exploit.

    So before you call for blanket bans on a broad concept like "exploiting" put it into some context.

    If people start wintrading warplots, BGs, or arenas I don't blame the players for being scumbags and cry that they should be banned. I blame the game's design. In actuality banning solves nothing. It gets rid of the players. Likely temporarily as they will just create new accounts.

    To give that some context. Illum wasn't trash because players were wintrading. Illum was trash because it was a poorly designed area. And it continued to be trash even after they tried to fix the wintrading issue.

    In addition to that, I feel there is some miscommunication here. I'm not entirely against banning players. Perma-banning on the other hand is pretty severe. Temporary bans on the other hand are perfectly reasonable. Find a way to glitch your flag out of the map in a CTF game so it can't be captured and abuse the hell out of it? Enjoy your week long vacation. Sure, I'm alright with that.
    Vembumees likes this.
  15. Zybak

    Zybak Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm just happy that Wildstar is actually putting Arena PvP into their game. Most MMO's don't have the balls to do that knowing that balancing it will be hard.

    Hopefully Wildstar will have a plan to split up every ability inside arena and out to work differently (if needed)

    Like if "Sword Swing X" hits to for too much in arena then they'll nerf it down in arena but not PvE.
  16. Phakz

    Phakz Cupcake-About-Town

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    Having arenas is the best thing they can do. I know that Warplots are their major PvP thing but, arena is what allows the really competitive PvPers to show how good they are. However, balancing is where they really need to focus with arena.
    Also, are they going to have anything like PvP resilience? This can cause many problems but without something like it, it is hard to make PvP gear and PvE gear different.
    I really hope you can not walk into battlegrounds, arena, and warplots with PvE gear and do just as well as someone with PvP gear. This is also vise versa, someone should not walk into dungeons and raids with PvP gear and do as good as people with PvE gear.

    I can't wait to see what they do though :)
  17. Zybak

    Zybak Cupcake-About-Town

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    Balancing PvP around arenas is the best thing to do. FOR THE MOST PART if something balances out well in small scale technical fights then it will balance out in larger fights too. A perfect example of this is in WoW where there's a lot of classes that suck in Arenas but are somewhat viable in RBGs. It rarely goes the other way around.

    I think they are going to put a PvP stat into the game. I hope the PvP stat isn't completely overbearing though (something like how resilience was in WOTLK) where you could get creative with your gearsets and swap in a few PvE pieces. I know set gear is the best for balance but I think a little flare and customization would make the game pretty fun + get a lot of people motivated to raid. The main motivation for me to raid was to get PvE pieces to theorycraft with!
  18. Acidblood

    Acidblood Cupcake-About-Town

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    Agreed, and don't forget WarPlots will be owned by an organised team, so it's not just a bunch of randoms like BGs or even WvWvW. Add to that that you have (in game) money and ranking on the line, and I'm pretty sure WarPlots (especially at the higher rankings) are going to be every bit as tactical as arena style PvP, just at a larger scale / with more sub-groups.
  19. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

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    those worried about spells being OP in either PvP or PvE and under powered in the opposite, the AMAA said that they have a mob named Bob that they test out spells on, so that they're equal powered no matter what situation you're in.

    here's the question, answer, and thread for that:

    http://wildstar-central.com/index.php?threads/combat-pvp-reddit-amaa-on-wednesday.1604/#post-26821

    Gazimoff: How closely interlinked are PvP and PvE versions of abilities? if I'm a PvE player, can I expect nerfs and buffs for the sake of PvP balance (and vice versa), or are they completely decoupled?

    CRB_Clynch: Due to the way we design and balance WildStar you should not experience nerfs/buffs to your PVE experience because that ability is over/underpowered in PVP (and vice versa).
    • In WildStar, we balance all of our combat around a base creature we call “Bob”. This entity has statistics that are what we expect the ‘average’ player to have at each level in the game. This means if we balance Bob so that a player kills it in 30 seconds, then we can assume that an average player will then kill another average player in 30 seconds. This also means that if an ability is overpowered in PVE, it’s probably overpowered in PVP and will need to be addressed.
    We also have some tools on the Crowd Control (CC) side of gameplay that will allow us to make CC’s feel different in PVE than they do in PVP.
    • Due to our Breakout Gameplay system, we can make the effects on players be different than creatures. For example; when you stun a player they will be able to fight to get out of the stun faster, but a creature does not get this opportunity.
  20. PlayerOne

    PlayerOne Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm sorry but that is about the the worst opiniofact I have read in a long time. That statement has no logic behind it.

    What happens in arena, in my opinion, is that classes, to be viable, have to meet very strict and very arena specific criteria. If they don't, then they rarely get played at high ratings. The problem with this is that a class that could be perfectly viable everywhere but in arena is buffed to make it viable at high ratings (the place where a only a tiny percentage of people care about let alone play in) and imbalance it everywhere else (where almost everyone plays) . The same happens in reverse when a generally underpowered class over performs in those very specific conditions and gets nerfed, wrecking it for everyone, most of which have no idea why it was nerfed and why their class, which to them was balanced and fun, is weaker and less fun.

    This for me is why MMOs are one of the worst vehicles for esport type PvP out there. While I understand a lot of players see MMOs as a good place to get e-famous and make e-asy money because of their popularity, their play-lots-to-win style and their relatively low skill cap and developers see it as a cash cow, I will just never believe in balancing a massively multiplayer game around poky little closed environment 3 vs. 3 mini-game that is so ridiculously restrictive in the classes/specs and team compositions it welcomes into it.

    So, I disagree. I think balancing PvP around arenas is the worst thing to do.
    Celtkhan likes this.

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