1. Hey Guest! If you're more than just a WildStar fan and want to keep up on the latest MMO news, reviews and opinion pieces then I'd like to suggest you visit our sister site MMO Central

My PvP Concerns (From Reddit AMA Tier List)

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Honoracy, Mar 24, 2013.

  1. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,876
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Arkansas
    thank god that they're not balancing PvP around arenas, or around PvP. all combat is balanced around "Bob"! lol!
  2. Nekofest

    Nekofest Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2013
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I find their method of balancing concerning by itself. Bob seems to be nothing more than a target dummy for DPS testing.
  3. Zybak

    Zybak Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Radford, Virginia
    I should have gone into more detail. For Arenas to be completlely balanced every ability would have to have the potential to work differently in and out of arena. If Sword Swing X does this much damage in arena and this much damage outside of arena. Obviously they'd have to start slow and balance it out ability by ability if needed. That was a lot of the reason WoW's Arena to PVE transition is so bad. Blizzard is too arrogant or lazy to realize that some things need to work differently in arenas.
    Tramazing likes this.
  4. Tramazing

    Tramazing New Cupcake

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2013
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Fresno, Ca
    I agree with you, because I believe a MMO can properly balance arena and their PVE successfully. Just because all the previous MMO's have failed doing it DOES NOT mean it is impossible. If you have a group of developers that are actually trying to fix their game, anything can be done.
  5. Patrician

    Patrician "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,013
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Land of the Danes, for now
    Well Blizzard has always been fighting a difficult uphill battle with no end in sight when it comes to PvP balance because they released the game as a PvE only game. They didn't start to add PvP
    Content until so much later, and by then abilities were so ingrained into a class the only way to make them fair in PvP was to remove them completely... And well, people hate that... So you got that constant roller coaster ride of nerds and buffs we still see even today.

    Releasing a game with both PvP and PvE in kind from the start is oh so better.

    Another thing I think will help so much is the limited action sets and people having to pick and choose abilities for each fight. There active crowd control mechanics and counters as well really makes me look forward to trying it all out ( and if in beta, trying to break it all so they can fix it ^^ )
  6. wormed

    wormed Cupcake

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2013
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Biggest problem: PvP gear with PvP bonuses. Simple as that.
  7. Phakz

    Phakz Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2012
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    Do you mean like a PvP stat on gear?
  8. Nekofest

    Nekofest Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2013
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    43
    He means something like a Resilience stat, yes.
  9. Phakz

    Phakz Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2012
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    Ok that is what I thought and I think it is important for there to be something like resilience for the fact that I do not want a top geared raider walking being the best PvPer to. I know if the PvP is strictly skill based then that won't matter but, gear will always have a factor in PvP and it should. Not an extreme factor, however, you should be rewarded for being good and spending the time to make yourself good. I hope Wildstar can be the first MMO to find the balance we are all looking for.
  10. wormed

    wormed Cupcake

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2013
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    18
    What's wrong with gaining the same gear from PvE and PvP? Isn't the whole point to just obtain the top end gear through the avenue you enjoy the most? Whether that be PvP or PvE? I love PvP and would get all my gear through that avenue but I also don't care if some PvE raider has equally good armor. I'll just be better at killing them, no matter what.

    They'll rock at killing a computer script, whereas I'll be awesome at killing others.
    Mudfin likes this.
  11. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,876
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Arkansas
    well, their gear will be normalized anyways, and it's all tiered ELO ratings anyways, so they can't just walk into the top tier right away, they'll have to work their way up - earning PvP gear on their way anyways... (edit: holy run-on sentence! lol! and i have an author for a mother, she'd get on to me!)
  12. Phakz

    Phakz Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2012
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    What do you mean its all tiered to ELO? I have a basic understanding of ELO but im not sure what you mean. Also, don't worry about a run-on sentence. This is a forum :p lol
  13. PlayerOne

    PlayerOne Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2013
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    And you think that such a small part of what makes up an MMO like WoW and maybe Wildstar (and arena in general, let alone high rating arena where this sort of thing really starts to stand out, is really small when compared to all the other things that make up an MMO) is worth that level of attention? I don't.

    Also, in WoW, there are plenty of abilities that work differently in PvP than they do in PvE.

    Blizzard, with all their experience and money have done the best they can with arena. But in an MMO that tries to cover so many different bases it will always be trying to ram a square peg into a round hole. It just doesn't fit in. That/this type of game simply doesn't stand up well to the type of scrutiny that a closed environment relatively low skill cap 3 vs. 3 battle puts on it. And I don't think it ever should. To do that you need to narrow things so much - fewer abilities, fewer classes, fewer secondary effects, narrow ranges in damage, hyper balanced gear and so on - which all make for less and less MMO for everyone else.

    For me arena should have remained where it started. A for-fun mini-game. The real effort, in my opinion, should go into larger scale PvP which shows off a massively multiplayer game far better and allows many of the inevitable imbalances to be diluted due to the larger pool of players competing with each other at one time. Sure, that will never be the ultimate test of player skill, but let's not kid ourselves, neither is WoW arena. Never has been. Never will be.
    Vembumees likes this.
  14. Nekofest

    Nekofest Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2013
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    43
    [​IMG]
  15. Zybak

    Zybak Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Radford, Virginia
    I totally agree. I'm not asking them to spend tons and tons of time balancing out Arenas. I'd just like to see them make changes to it every now and then and listen to player feedback. Even if they barely give it any attention at all it'll still be more than Blizzard does. Blizzard attempts to make half-assed pvp changes once every 3-4 months.

    I definitely see where you're coming from though. I play every aspect of the game PvP Hardcore, PvE Hardcore, and I'm an achievement nerd/completionist. I'd much rather them focus most of their time and effort on game features rather than small-scale PvP balance at the start BUT if they at least show some interest in balancing Arenas I think it will go a long way. Even if they are horribly imbalanced, if they show they care at least they'll be doing more than Blizzard does :p
  16. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,876
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Arkansas
    once you hit a certain ELO rating you go up a rating tier. so say you have an ELO rating of 1450 and the next tier starts at 1500. once you hit 1500 you'll go up to the next tier, be fighting against other people rated 1500+, and get access to gear that requires 1500 rating. so a beginner will not be fighting people ranked highest in the ELO tiers.
  17. Nekofest

    Nekofest Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2013
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Arenas seem to suffer more from stagnation than anything else.

    Same team comps. Same maps. Same strategies. All the same nonsense. Only gets changed as a result of balance changes by the devs and not players discovering new things themselves.

    Yet another reason why I'm excited about Warplots. Different fortress layouts (hopefully). 40 people can either make for a load of variance or, in the worst case scenario, just a massive zerg rush.
  18. Draegan

    Draegan Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I think some people may be underestimating how hard/difficult it'll be to get a good warplot up and running and competing for the best gear. Maybe they mentioned this, but I haven't read anything about how rewards will be given out.

    For example, at PAX, they did mention that Warplots will have a certain cost allotment to them. I can imagine that your warplot could have some kind of gearscore associated with it. So if your plot is fully upgraded and utilized fighting newbie plots won't get you that many points if you win. In the reverse, if there are no higher level plots to fight, you won't be able to earn the points needed to get the better gear.

    I hope that makes sense, but ultimately in order to get the best warplot gear, you need to either have the best warplot or beat the best warplots. This means that a noob plot won't really have a chance to get that stuff.

    That's how I would do it anyway. If plots are hard to build up, and time consuming, then add in the risk of actually losing your work if you lose a match - I think you can justify it being a higher tier than arenas.
  19. Phakz

    Phakz Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2012
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    Ok i got it now. Thank you for explaining :)
    Kataryna likes this.
  20. OGee

    OGee New Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I don't know if I have an opinion either way at this point. However, as a dedicated pvp'er in swtor, I am leaning towards arenas being the pinnacle of pvp. It seems that the grinding and building of Warplots is an element that may not be PVE but definitely does not fit my definition of PVP. As a pvp'er I want to be able to jump into a match where everyone is on equal footing and your strategy is based on how you play the opponent and not their built up Warplot. However, maybe it is time for my definition of PVP to expand and Wildstar might possibly help with that.
    Kataryna likes this.

Share This Page