Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by AusterlitZ, Jul 17, 2013.
yup! that was just a guess as to why the OP put stalkers so low though - dunno his real reasoning
When I first sighted the diagram (before a read a word) 1 thing sprang to mind is that it may have been a perception on what class may play what roll depending on how people spec. EG: People (the majority) may play Stalker spec'd as DPS (Over being a tank)
This image is way way off.
I will be extremely shocked and disappointed if every class isn't nearly identical in output of their 2 roles.
It does seem like people are screaming for normalization across the board these days.
Niches are preferable to me as long as they don't go to extremes.
AoE Heal or Single Target Heal
AoE DPS or Single Target DPS
AoE Tank or Single Target Tank
They don't even have to be limited by classes since WS has the LAS. You can choose which niche you want to fill before the fight even starts.
I'm curious about how your saying "present in the game." The only people able to do that would be the ones in Beta, and Beta is under NDA. Would you perchance have data-mined, or are in beta? Because if you are, this thread will be going "poof" soon.
If you'd based it off the patch notes, though, everything is all well and good.
As for your concerns: we are only seeing a tiny patch of "core" skills at the lower levels, the ones that define how a class plays in general. The disparity between DPS/Healer/Tank will become more evident at later levels when we get more powerful skills that are less utilitarian, more specialised, say, a frenzy attack for destroying mobs (Stalker DPS), or an aggro generating dummy drop when stealthing (Stalker Tank).
And also, the classes may PLAY differently but functionally, they're all equal. It all really depends on how skilled the player is, than their actual class, if Carbine has designed it right.
Just FYI you don't need to be giving specifics to be breaching the NDA if you are under it.
Some people really are unable to put things into context,
Let's say hypothetical, the warrior has more defensive stats.
What does that tell us? that a warrior has more active defensive abilities to mitigate damage, does that mean they'll take less damage over the course of a fight compared to the other tanks?
No, as it simply tells us they are reliant on active mechanics to absorb or mitigate a damage spike or perhaps are simply needed to shave off some damage from regular hits.
Stalkers would functioning differently by mitigating with either more passives, in form of avoidance or other mechanics that are kept up by regular offensive abilities, that shave of a portion of the damage taken in other ways.
Long story short and to avoid using direct real examples, all such information tells us is what type of tank they'll be, their effectiveness is in numbers. It also tells us what tanks will be easier to play, but being easy to play doesn't mean even that they are the best tank out there.
The lower the skill cap, the lower the ability to increase performance on the player end.
Just so we're clear here, to redefine that ghastly image from the front page, this is what all current and future WildStar classes will look like.
Now, if you want to talk about how populated each of the classes roles will be, then your image becomes somewhat appropriate (your third tank is still way off course, and there is no way the third healer would have more healers than the Esper, given that it looks most like a caster healer class).
As a guess, cause I'm not in beta or anything, but I'd think the other 2 classes could be like ranged dps/tank and melee dps/healer. It would give a special different flavor to them. As I understood, then you can only have a limited set of skills in your bar to use?
If that is the case, well, then you can specialize the abilities you are going to use per fight or per role you are going to play. Meaning, you can be a warrior with a single target tank set of skills, then change to be an Aoe set of skills tank for another encounter...sort of like that. I think that would be interesting since you would have to think on the possibilities and needs of the group and role for different situations. Same would be for any other class and role.
I like this set up. I can understand how it can be a turn off for some of those who have been playing for a while. The way I see it, by allowing everyone to optionally tank or heal it may encourage more people to do these roles since they are typically more rare.
That and, min and maxxing can hurt when it forces you to roll certain classes to succeed.
I agree with Trigger. Normalization is a GOOD thing for game balance. Do we really want this game to be like some table-top RPG's where certain classes are insanely more effective than others (best example in my mind: D&D 3.5 edition)?
No, of course not. As Carbine has stated, each class will have the ability to DPS/Tank-or-Heal. If each class can not do that, then Carbine has some work to do in order to live up to their design ideals. This means that, as others have stated, the diagram in the OP is pretty much absurd, and reflects nothing about the game.
As to my personal feelings on the matter, I will be estatic if Warriors, Stalkers, and <Redacted>'s can tank equally. The fun comes from the different styles of tanking. I expect Warriors to be the "up in your face, blasting through you with a cannon, blocking lazors with my chest" kind of guy. I want Stalkers to be acrobatic, rely on passive and active dodges, and use stealth and redirection in order to tank. I want <Redacted>'s to do something else. Everyone should feel different, but everyone's numbers should come out the same. That's what game balance means.
For me all of them are 50/50, we don't know nothing about specs and that sort of stuff so we are left with speculation.
Warrior: 50/50 Tank - DPS
Esper: 50/50 DPS-Healer
Spellslinger 50/50 DPS-Healer
Stalker: 50/50 DPS-Tank
Stealth Class: 50/50 DPS-Heals
Rifle/Cannon Class: 50/50 DPS-Tank
If is anything like this i'm mostly going to pick Esper or Spellslinger.
I added that cause i saw it somewhere on this forums, but i believe you get the idea.
The good thing about this system is that we will not have the bull<REDACTED> about hybrid classes deal 5% less damage than pure dps.
And Jeremy Gaffney confirmed my original post:"All classes have AT LEAST two roles" (which means there is at least one class with more than 2 roles,just like in my original post.)
"In general the characters can DPS. There’s a scale, some are better, some are worse, but there is a role you can put yourself in or there’s a spec you can do, or gear set you can put on, to have a viable sort of DPS spec.(Which also confirms my original post that classes will not have 50%/50% damage/heal/tanking potential.Yes you will be able to dps as a esper or one of the two unannounced classes,but you will not be able to deal the damage a similarly geared Spellslinger will do,which makes perfect sense,all classes will have at least 2 roles,but some will be better at it than others.
ANd why the Esper can't do the same dps than a Spellslinger? They're both the same. Ranged magic dps. One fire spells from his guns, the other create magic weapons, summons and throw them at the enemy.
To me, a better way of "fair imbalance" would be Melees > Ranged, because melees take more damage, risk and tend to lose uptime and dps on target switching.
What does DPS have to do with what type of lore related skills the classes have?You're not making any sense,what do numbers have to do with "fire spells from his guns, the other create magic weapons, summons and throw them at the enemy"?Have you actually read the Jeremy Gaffney quote?
You said Spellslingers will deal more dps than Espers. I wanna understand why.