1. Hey Guest! If you're more than just a WildStar fan and want to keep up on the latest MMO news, reviews and opinion pieces then I'd like to suggest you visit our sister site MMO Central

"OMFG you noob!" Trolling and solutions.

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Morthaine, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. Zeus

    Zeus Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Houston, texas
    I don't believe anything as of yet needs fleshed out. Carbine should do the same thing that Riot did with thier Tribunal system. They didn't make it till it was needed. LoL needed a rash harsh system because of what the community did. They did it to themselves. I dread the day that Wildstar needs a fools court.
  2. Sasquatauch

    Sasquatauch New Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
    I think it not only weeds out some of the work for the CS's, but it also gives players a very real sense of ownership of the game and their gaming experience. Can you really put a price on that? To me that's that's a gold monkey flinging gold poo into my "I love this game" account.
  3. Jojin

    Jojin Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Likes Received:
    113
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Jacksonville, Florida

    Because in a game, often people will often use the report function as a tool as a means to strike out. I think we are all familiar with behavior that might be upsetting, but in no way is against behavior guidelines. Examples like grabbing a resource node ahead of someone, removing someone from a group after seeing their gear or play style or just making fun of another's misfortune.

    In these cases people will use a report function just to get back and appease their anger. Having a paid employee sift through all the complaints where there isn't really any breach is expensive, especially where complaints can roll in at thousands a day.

    So the use of the community judgement system allows many of these reports to be thrown out and those which remain sorted by vote balance. The cost of this process is pretty much just involved in the implementation, yet the benefits continue for as long as it runs.

    It also allows for the community at large to act as a measuring tool of how strict or lax specific rules should be and where to focus attention.
    Khrusky and Sasquatauch like this.
  4. Zapp Brannigan

    Zapp Brannigan Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Nimbus
    I certainly see how that could be a possibility, though I doubt it would have any real impact. They'd have to get the message out to target a specific person somehow, and I doubt Carbine would allow that kind of message on the official boards (or that mods would allow it here).

    Let's suppose that they get 100 people on board, though, and those 100 people all get onto the tribunal. To begin with (and lets assume that the person they are targeting is innocent), said person needs to get on the tribunal. Those 100 people could force it, sure, but there'd be no evidence that the person has done anything wrong.

    They'd then have to have the majority of people voting on that case to chose punish. Since there's no evidence against them, anyone using the tribunal normally would chose to pardon them.

    Assuming that they do have enough people (and I'll note that 'enough people' would be decided by Carbine) voting falsely on that particular case, though, the person will first receive a warning as well as a link to the case(s) that people voted on. I'm not sure on specifics, though I believe that once someone has been punished/pardoned, all cases against them are dropped; you can never be tried for the same set of cases.

    So, they've managed to give him a warning, at this point. Now they need to repeat the entire process, have enough people falsely vote against him again, in order for him to receive a suspension for whatever amount of time Carbine deems is adequate after the first warning (or they may chose to include additional warnings, etc). The person being suspended receives a link to the tribunal case(s) that suspended him.

    Putting aside the logistics of this happening (as they depend largely on how many people play the game/use the tribunal, which we can't know at this time), there is also the chance for the person being suspended to appeal. This happens frequently on the LoL forums, though generally ends in the community eviscerating whoever is complaining about the decision after they see the case(s) themselves.

    The person being punished can create a thread, say "hey, I think I've been falsely punished, here's my case for you to have a look," at which point he opens up the entire community to judge him. If he's clearly done nothing wrong, he'll get support from the community (trust me. He'll get support). In LoL's case, this would generally result in a 'red' (moderator/dev) stepping in to either say "yes, he's right, he shouldn't have been punished and we'll lift that right away" or "no, he's not telling you about x, which is the real reason that he has been punished".

    If we take it a step further, Carbine would then be able to see who voted falsely on the case and ban them from the tribunal (I believe LoL has a system where if you vote incorrectly enough, your vote is worth less (and vice-versa), though I'm not entirely sure. Also, around 80% of the LoL tribunal cases deserve punishment). Eventually, the people who did this would be weeded out, and let's face it, how many would blindly jump on board to punish someone who doesn't deserve it anyway?

    Now, I'm not saying that the system is flawless. No system is. I do think that the benefits outweigh the disadvantages though, and in LoL's case it really shaped up the community.
    Sasquatauch likes this.
  5. Zeus

    Zeus Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Houston, texas

    I think more negativity would come from it that good. There are other ways to create a sense of ownership. I would hate to see people bragging about how many Tribunals they have been apart of.
  6. Zapp Brannigan

    Zapp Brannigan Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Nimbus
    To save me some typing while I go watch The Devil is a Part-Timer, here's a link to someone complaining about their tribunal ban (it's the first thread I saw). Browse some other threads if you want more of an idea as to how it works (I'd suggest hopping on the tribunal yourself, though I think you need to be level 30 to use it. Still, the guidelines are there).

    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3330584
  7. Zeus

    Zeus Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Houston, texas
    In that case if the system is needed it is. It has helped shape LoL because people are now fearful of spamming being jerks. So far we have a great happy community. if it came down to Wildstar having a low down dirty dog of a community I will probably be more pro of the system but I can't put more change in the jar that is the Court System until I personally deem it worth the time needed hallelujah for opinions!

    it is hard for me to comprehend needing it and even fleshing it out until its needed. As Mr. Sasquatauch said.

  8. Honoracy

    Honoracy Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2013
    Likes Received:
    39
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Virginia
    We need Egyptian rule set here. You troll me, I put a stake through your heart. :inlove:
  9. Zeus

    Zeus Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Houston, texas
    That is all solved by open world PVP. Meet me outside the City gates so that we may settle our quarrel.
    Honoracy likes this.
  10. Zapp Brannigan

    Zapp Brannigan Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Nimbus
    I agree, it would be much better if it never came to that. Honestly, I don't think it will.

    In a thread discussing ways to stop trolling, though, I thought it would be a good idea to bring up the Tribunal, because as far as I'm aware, it has had the single largest impact in any game to stop poisonous players.

    They also have an 'honour' system which I believe helped improve their community, though I believe that system would be more difficult to implement in an MMO without it being abused.
  11. Zeus

    Zeus Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Houston, texas
    I think its been an amazing tangent of the thread. I've spent a good deal today thinking on this topic and I would do it again.
  12. Sasquatauch

    Sasquatauch New Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
    One of the constants that I've found in so many aspects of life is that by the time you need it, you should have already had it. I can't stress how important it is to have systems in place to deal with issues that you know are going to inevitably arise.

    Maybe in the case of LoL it seemed harsh simply because it was a matter of perception. Had that system been in place from the get-go it wouldn't have been as jarring (i.e., if people know the system is in place, they know what to expect and they know what the potential outcome will be.)

    I think a proactive approach to trolling seems like a step in the right direction, don't you?
    Khrusky likes this.
  13. Zeus

    Zeus Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Houston, texas
    Here, here!
  14. salazar

    salazar Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2013
    Likes Received:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    28
    what is trolling for you guys ? Do you really wanna give out perma bans for people saying [dirge], Anal [spell] or <wow was first mmo>

    Or are we talking only about people being jerks here?
  15. Zeus

    Zeus Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Houston, texas
    More people being jerks and generally mean.
  16. Zapp Brannigan

    Zapp Brannigan Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Nimbus
    You don't know how much I'd love to ban people making anal [spell] jokes. Then torture them mercilessly, and perhaps ironically.

    That said, no, I don't consider it trolling (and I wasn't being serious about banning them, an ignore function is more than enough for those people). In fact, I'm perfectly ok with trolling, so long as it's in good humour.

    It's when people are being intentionally and continuously hurtful or abusive that I think measures need to be taken to stop or change the behaviour.
    Sasquatauch likes this.
  17. Sasquatauch

    Sasquatauch New Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
    Agreed, and as mentioned earlier it's probably going to have to be spelled out in the ToS of the game as well so everyone has a common reference as to what Carbine/NCSoft deems as trolling behavior. Otherwise we'll be all over the place on standards and punishments.
  18. Sasquatauch

    Sasquatauch New Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
    It's funny how much we've concentrated on the punishment side of this tonight. Very little has been said about the rewards side of things. I've got to hit the sack, but would love to pick this up tomorrow.

    ... <REDACTED>, after I do my taxes!
  19. Grohmm

    Grohmm Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    France, Paris
    The only good way to maintain a great community and a great experience is unfortunately to make people understand that, if they insult or are racists or whatever, they have 100% chances to meet a Game Master who's going to explain the limits of decency.

    So, in order to do that, the main goal is, for Wildstar team, to provide a great amount of GM (employees or voluntary GM) who are going to be here to help the community, but also to sanction the bad behaviors. Like that was the case by the time of WoW Vanilla :)

    What do you think about that ?
  20. ElizDewitt

    ElizDewitt New Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    There will always be such people around. We just need to L2ignore and deal with it.

Share This Page