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Only 6 classes at launch?

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by drkgt, May 28, 2013.

  1. Nezk

    Nezk Cupcake

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    And 90% of the player base would disagree with making a class different by their abilities being lightning instead of fire

    ;p
  2. popober

    popober Cupcake-About-Town

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    Now you're mincing words. First you talk about raiding, then min/maxing, now you're saying function is not necessary for the sake of aesthetics? Make up your mind man!

    Anyway, if you want visual distinction, there's transmogrification. Adding more classes wouldn't make much difference, you'd be seeing the healers in similar cloth labgowns, the ranged DPSers in longcoats, and the tanks in heavy armor. Even if they do add some kind of heavy armored, melee healer, it'd just look like the Warrior.

    If skill effects are your gripe, then the fact that there's a limited amount of slots mitigates that acording to preference. But if you're going back to min/maxing, then you'd have to stop talking about distinction as the whole intent of min/maxing is ignoring everything else for the most powerful build.

    As people have said above, there's no difference between having two separate names with differing functions and just one name with all functions. You're just painting two sides of the same coin different colors.
  3. Chomag

    Chomag Cupcake-About-Town

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    You got your warrior, your assassin, your archer, your mage, and your priest.
  4. drkgt

    drkgt New Cupcake

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    I hope that's the case and they manage to pull it off! We will have to wait and see I suppose.

    Its a difficult thing to pull off but I do hope they manage to have multiple distinct play styles being viable.
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  5. drkgt

    drkgt New Cupcake

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    They are all related. Raiding -> min-maxing at the high end -> everyone using the same abilities -> tons of the exact same spell effect -> visually bland. I'm sorry you couldn't follow...
  6. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    It's proven that fewer choices lead to less remorse, if you give too many choices, you end up thinking how the other choices could have been better, instead of enjoying the one you made. If you put too many classes in, you can't fully explore the class on your own and decide if you think it's better or not. Instead you revert to the internet to help you research which class you're going to play, instead of just looking at them and deciding which one looks the most fun.

    Here's a TED Talks on the subject of choice:
    http://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_choice.html

    I know it sounds counter intuitive, because it is, but it's true. More choices actually cause less happiness than less choices (to an extent, you don't want too few either.) So, if 6 are in place, it'll be a meaningful choice for you, as you'll have time to look at each class before deciding on one, and being able to make an informed decision. With a brand new player in WoW right now, you look at the classes and say... "which one do I play?" And players have picked the wrong class over and over to start with, and eventually re-rolled enough times to finally figure out which one they liked. With only 6 classes your diversity is still high enough, and your probability of randomly choosing the one class you like the most is 16.7% as opposed to 12.5%, that's almost 1/3 more probability, and in actuality, players know if they like healing or tanking more and if they like ranged or melee more, so your probabilities become 1/3 as opposed to 1/4.

    The other thing is, I don't want them to arbitrarily put in classes because they think there isn't enough variables in the game. I want them to put classes in the game because specific roles are needed and not being filled. Otherwise you get class overlap, and everything feeling kinda similar, and causing extra balance problems to fix a problem which wasn't a problem at all. Basically if they add classes after launch, that's fine, because Carbine has said they want to wait to release more classes to cover gaps in the combat style of players, not to "just have them." For instance, if classes right now have DoTs but none of them are viable to actually use, they could implement a DoT heavy class to give a new combat style to the game. So, implement after testing, means you'll create a class that's truly unique and fits well with the community and fills niches, instead of one that feels out of place.

    Another advantage to fewer classes is cooler animations, being that time is a limited unit, and amount of time before launch is even more limited, adding 2 classes means you detract from how cool the original 6 look. This goes against your "visually appealing" argument. I would rather have the coolest looking 6 classes than 8 of the 75% as cool as their full potential classes. That's like... 25% more cool per class! (This is an abstract idea that's hard to describe... I hope it came out understandable.)
  7. popober

    popober Cupcake-About-Town

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    No, my point was your argument of min/maxing is counter to the whole distinction aim. Asking for more classes that won't be used in a raid is pointless simply because they'll be passed over for the situational better one.

    You're going around in circles, you asked for more classes for distinction in raiding, I said playstyles differ, then you said min/maxing trumps playstyle differences. So in the end you're not gonna get what you want. If you add more classes for raiding, it won't make a difference as some simply won't be used, you're gonna be stuck with the same classes with the same build in each run.
  8. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    It's significantly less difficult if you have less classes. This is less likely to happen with more classes, as the other classes end up filling niche roles that would have been a complete build from original classes. I think the systems they have in place can support a variance of viable play styles, it's all about follow-through at this point.
  9. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Another way to phrase this is, number of classes is inversely related to the variance of roles per class. But his argument is that each class will look exactly the same as the next, which can be countered by an increase of variance in roles per class. Animations are included with this formula.
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  10. eselle8

    eselle8 Well-Known Cupcake

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    If we're just talking about looking around the raid and not seeing a bunch of clones, I don't think adding a large number of new classes would help much with that. My mage and my priest may play slightly differently, but someone looking around a raid isn't going to be able to tell us apart unless they're watching our spell effects closely. Visually distinct races, costume tabs, interesting animations, and variation in armor styles are more likely to satisfy that urge.

    If Carbine wanted to release the game with eight classes at launch, I'd be fine with that as well. But six is also perfectly workable, and may be easier to balance properly. I'd certainly prefer six classes to eight that have combat imbalances, or eight that don't gel properly with each of the paths. At any rate, I suspect that at this point in the game's development, an extra class is one of those things that's very unlikely to be added to the game at launch.
  11. drkgt

    drkgt New Cupcake

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    Yes you are right, as I said in a previous post, if they have multiple viable distinct set ups for each class that works as well.
  12. popober

    popober Cupcake-About-Town

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    Then the whole raiding angle and min/maxing doesn't matter. Why'd he cite something that ignores distinction as the reason in the first place if all he wants is visual distinction between characters? Something unlikely to happen with all the things we've been presented with so far.:rolleyes: Some people...
  13. Morphine

    Morphine New Cupcake

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    Remember they're going for not just class diversity but PLAYER diversity- I reacon we'll be seeing a lot of one class but most will play differently. Even if there is a "best" spec- I don't think it'll be easy to achieve.
  14. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    It was due to not knowing all of the information... That is generally the reason people will post wildly varying viewpoints from what Carbine has said. That, they haven't thought it through well enough, or they are trolling. I think drkgt is now leaning towards a "I hope that visual effects vary enough, as well as viable builds within classes, so that all the classes don't feel the same" point of view, as does everyone.
  15. Psistorm

    Psistorm Cupcake-About-Town

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    You know, I don't necessarily mind "too many tanks" - most games have a shortage of them, meaning if you are anything but a tank, your LFG times will be 10x as long :p
  16. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    It's possible with the limited action set, that raids need like 5-7 tanks for a 40-man raid, 3-5 of which are hybrid dpsers. Not sure how they'd pull this off exactly I'd imagine it would be with making those same players be CCers on other fights, so they don't have to build 2 sets of drastically different gear, maybe just swap out a piece or two.
  17. Cartographer

    Cartographer Cupcake-About-Town

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    Or have mobs stack debuffs that interact as a damage multiplier, so individually they hurt, but get 2-3 on you and they hurt 4-9 times as much. You bring multiple tanks early, but once you've geared up, you can switch a few to dps 'cus the MT can take the damage.
  18. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Or that and 3 bosses you're fighting at once where one tank will have to kite them around while avoiding the 3 bosses, hoping the DPS cc's the mobs while they're being kited and kills them off before he dies, a healer yelling at the tank to slow down, a tank yelling back to the healer to speed up. Yeah... that's what they need, and that's only the first boss of the raid.
  19. Red_Death01

    Red_Death01 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Like all MMO designers they're trying their hardest to make the game not "here his the answer" and instead "here are some tips" when it comes to guides. Given we know very limited about the classes and how they work it'll be hard to say- but, with the way everything is heading it is possible the diversity in roles is great enough that you won't run into this problem. Of course there will be "best something"- but, having 7 of the "best something" ends up being overwhelming if you need something else. For example- (bad example but) Look at Shamans in BC, you always wanted at least 1 in your raid for bloodlust. For warlocks you varied from Destruction and Affliction (burst vs sustain). Hunters you... you had hunters- priests you wanted 1 or 2 shadow, and at least 1 holy and discipline.
  20. Locheawa

    Locheawa New Cupcake

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    I personally think 6 classes is enough. If you think about it, it's 6 classes with 2 specs each, meaning 12 different specs. This is the same as SWTOR for example, which had 4 classes (mirrored for each faction) with 3 specs each.

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