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Only 6 classes at launch?

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by drkgt, May 28, 2013.

  1. Yinello

    Yinello Cupcake-About-Town

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    And I would've gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids!

    I kid I kid. But I don't think the quantity of classes affects the quality of gameplay.
    Malorak likes this.
  2. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    You mean 4 classes with 2 subclasses that have 3 specs each. The subclasses were really classes, so you have 24 specs in total. Since every spec has one optimal way to play (or roughly one optimal way), there are 24 builds. Wildstar you can't really say that there's 2 specs per class, because each build will be a "spec" of the class. For instance there could be 2 viable builds for Stalker Tank, meaning there's the equivalent of 2 "specs" for Stalker Tank (this is due to ~40 total class abilities and only being able to use 6-8 of them at a time).
  3. Level9Zubat

    Level9Zubat Cupcake

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    Six classes is plenty to start off with, and they can keep the raid size at 40 man, thanks.

    If you want tiny little baby raids go play WoW or something.

    I hope they stay big and hard! Who cares if some people can't handle them? They'll adjust to the size eventually. (Double entendre ahuehuehuehue)
  4. Edouard Seryozhenkov

    Edouard Seryozhenkov New Cupcake

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    As long as we see a wide spec variation, and a variety of ways for the classes to perform their roles, I don't see having 6 classes as a problem.
  5. Sakorath67

    Sakorath67 Cupcake

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    6 is a good number. I think it really helps for bigger raids if they can do it right, the gear wont be an issue as the gear can range greatly based on the rolling system for gear they have currently shown us. Say I am a DOT based SpellSlinger, I am looking for something gear wise other than a possible Support SpellSlinger that can dps and buff/heal the raid as needed. The game will have a lot more abilities than what can fit on your bar, so having a mix of the same class that focus on different things will bring a great amount of strategy in my opinion.

    However, they have to make abilities WORTH choosing over another. I do not want to see plainly useless skills, mixed with great skills because then the versatility of the classes just tank.
  6. Dracor

    Dracor New Cupcake

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    Specializing in AoE damage will be important in some fights, theirs always going to be those silly AoE DPS race bosses in a game somewhere.

    The main difference I personally think we'll see with the different abilities for melee in particular is differen't types of tactical use (ie backstab abilities, higher damage because you have to be specifically placed) and having medium/long range options on close combat-centric classes. They've already showed off a few like that warrior saw blade ability thing that had a 15 or so meter range.

    I think there'll be a lot decisions between opting for the ability with optimal DPS in an ideal world, where you get to freely DPS, and abilities that are consistent. A melee stalker might have around 6 or 7 abilities that are perfect for this ideal situation where they're freely DPSing away, and having a blast. You'd probably use 2-3 of these on your bar at a time. You may then have another 6 or 7 abilities that are quite good when things aren't necessarily going your way, some mid range line nukes, or maybe a channeled attack, who really knows, and you'll end up bringing maybe two of those with you. Then you'll probably have a few panic buttons, something defensive to get you outta trouble if things really go bad, and you'd lock in one of those.

    That's a very basic example, but even something as simple as that could have a lot of room for variability from stalker to stalker in the same raid group. More range than one rogue backstabs with daggers, and applies SnD on cooldown, while the other rogue sinister strikes with a sword and applies SnD on cooldown.
  7. Malorak

    Malorak Cupcake-About-Town

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    "only"? WoW has 10 and adding the 10th was a horrible decision for balance in PvP and PvE. Also it didn't do <REDACTED> to the "we don't have enough tanks and healers" problem. The monk didn't help, either.

    I'm fine with 6 classes because of all the character specialization you can do for your characters and thus create your very own char.
  8. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    I just hope the final two classes are unique enough. The esper already looks like a caster rogue which is an issue. Warrior is generic but is a classic archetype and if Wildstar has its own unique spin on warriors, they'll be pretty unique too. Stalkers are generic too and outside of tanking I don't see them being anything other than the "rogue" archetype. The spellslinger, however, is a bizarre and unique class among the four known. It'll probably attract both the caster crowd and the gunslinger crowd which ought to be interesting. I still don't quite understand how spellsinger healing will work though.

    I do hope they make a point to add more classes in future expansions though. I always love getting new classes down the line in MMOs.
  9. Nemeses

    Nemeses Well-Known Cupcake

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    I'm surprised that we not heard what they are yet, if the game slated for a November release, its must be getting very close now.

    Just want the 2 remaining classes to be nothing like what out there now (with this game ofc), I agree that I do not see having 6 classes a problem it depends on how wide the skill variety is.
  10. Cartographer

    Cartographer Cupcake-About-Town

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    E3 in a week, give how quiet the devs have been over the last week or so, I expect a lot more info to hit in one massive lump.

    I'm hoping we get a pet class (is it too much to hope for it to be ridable pets?).
  11. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Watch WSW be "We're going to E3! Catch us there!"

    Please no pets... unless they're just mounts. Pets in an action oriented MMORPG will either be not fun, or way overpowered in an MMORPG, unless the pet is just there to buff you and not actually attack and is invincible... But not a real pet that's permanent. It's really unfair to the other classes, because pet classes seriously limit what you can do in a game due to always being a painful balancing act. This is especially the case with the telegraph system. You would have to make it so the pet has to dodge telegraphs based on your micromanagement, as well as make it attack, as well as your own actions which will be separate, and make it so that you feel like you're doing equal work as the pet so you don't feel useless and you don't feel like your pet is useless with a system as varied as Wildstar's limited action set, on top of this it can't be made too easy and just nerf the damage, because then it'll just be made fun of, if it's too complicated and doesn't output more damage, no one will play it, because it's not worth the amount of work, if it puts out more damage, everyone will play it because it's OP and if it's too easy and does equal damage, everyone will play it because it ends up being easy numbers for the amount of work. This has to be done EVERY time a patch comes out to ensure that the pet class stays balanced in how it feels (player's dmg output vs the pet's) how it plays (complexity) and how good it is compared to other classes (overall dmg output), that's ignoring that Carbine has interesting CC mechanics which you will have to actively mitigate by doing some sort of minigame, how do you make your pet do this? Or can your pet do this? How do you balance that out?!

    I will be sorely disappointed if there's a pet class, because it's going to be a constant problem child, require more time and attention than all the other classes, and frankly it's just not fair to the rest of the classes. It will stunt the growth of how they develop the other classes over the long term as well as limit the ability to add in new classes.

    Some solutions that have been suggested modifications to argue that a true pet could work but don't:
    Invincible pet: Now you get free damage, and can just stack your limited action set with pet attacks, and have it go kill the enemy while you stay out of range of attacks.

    It dodges when you dodge in the direction you dodge: That doesn't really work either with a complicated precise telegraph which is designed around one player, you'd have to specifically move the pet where you want it to be while attacking and dodging yourself.

    It auto-dodges, and auto targets for telegraphs: This takes the skill out of it and again see invincible pet.

    Some solutions of suggested modified pets which actually work:
    Turrets: This is a good solution because it gives a temporary boost to dps or healing or whatever, while being stationary, so you have to skillfully place it when you know it's not just going to be killed by a telegraph. They would only last the max of 30 seconds, that's the hard max, I think something like 20 seconds is better.

    Support pet: This works, in that the pet would simply be used to buff the player, and does no damage, but it could be invincible here or just stand right next to the player, or auto-dodge or whatever because it is not the basis of the attack point. But at that point you've basically just got a non-combat pet, and you're buffing yourself, so kinda boring.

    Temporary pets: You could make them killable and only last 8 seconds or so, in order to make them likely to last long enough, but wouldn't give enough of an advantage (assuming a long enough cooldown). But again, kinda boring, in that sure it's a pet, but really it's more of an ability at that point.

    In the end if there's a pet class, the only true way to balance it (long term and with every slight change of the game) with the other classes output:skill is make it over-complicated and painstakingly micromanaged.
  12. DrShemp

    DrShemp Cupcake

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    Six classes seems fine, much easier to balance so that there is an even spread in 40 mans. I never like having a large number of classes because then the popular class usually gets a lot of attention while the unpopular classes just slowly fall behind and begin getting outclassed.
  13. Flannan

    Flannan Cupcake

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    More classes means more development time means a further away release date. 6 classes is a good number, any more and we may never see this game released! :eek:
  14. Nemeses

    Nemeses Well-Known Cupcake

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    I agree 6 classes and maybe more more than 12 skills make the game a lot easier to balance
  15. Cartographer

    Cartographer Cupcake-About-Town

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    A lot of very good points.

    My first thoughts on a pet class pretty much were the turret model, with said turret being customisable: weapons, fields, auras etc. but itself immobile and vulnerable to damage. You could even have specific telegraphs emanating from the pet/turret. Obviously, there would have to be some sort of range limit to prevent a player from dropping a turret and running while it does auto-damages its target, as well as a penalising CD to prevent spamming.

    If you extrapolate down that route however, the notion of the player being able to climb aboard the pet/turret, perhaps involving some form of transformation, and moving it manually isn't that farfetched. I'm thinking a mechanical turret sprouting tracks when a player rides it, then slowly (<100% speed) trundles in the direction the player wants to move it.
  16. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    I've had the discussion about pets a lot with people for them, and the general idea that people want them is for a unique feel that they can change out if one of them gets stale, as well as a dps supplement. Most of them don't want an extremely finicky micro-managed class that would have to be uber-complex. Glad you didn't just throw out the argument "but I waaaaant one!" Which is about a 50/50 response to the balance argument, which can't be refuted... Thanks for being logical! :D

    Yah it's important that turrets have a duration, a set range, and be killable. This is especially important during raid encounters where it could be used as a mini-dps cooldown (or heal cooldown or whatever). It is also important that they don't move for PVP because then a PVPer could just get out of range, or try to force the enemy out of range of a healing turret.

    Hmm... possibly something like that could work too... but that's not really a pet, that's a mounted combat at that point. I'd hope they have that for everyone on mounts for open world play instead of limiting it to just one class... Really interesting thought though. If it didn't move it'd feel like the "cover" mechanic in SWTOR, which at first was kinda cool, but it got really old really fast for me, as it kinda became arbitrary at some point. Even if it does move, it may feel like the "cover" mechanic...
  17. Calahan

    Calahan Cupcake-About-Town

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    In some interview a dev said, a pet class could be "possible". I don't take this as confirmation, but it sounds very odd for me: If there is no pet class, this was a very unnessesary comment.

    I like to see a range pet class in the game and some sort of melee turret user too.
  18. Seahorse

    Seahorse New Cupcake

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    It all comes down to how well carbine can balance all specs to fill their roll.

    A good way to make specs viable is by giving each spec certain buffs and debuffs which they bring to the raid, that way you will at least want one of everything in order to obtain max total DPS, healing and damage mitigation within the entire raid group.
  19. Cartographer

    Cartographer Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'd argue that that is the worst way to do it.
    That is the bandage the Blizzard applied to their raiding once they realised that balancing all the different class combinations they had was impossible, some were just preferable to others in the majority of their fights.
  20. Seahorse

    Seahorse New Cupcake

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    Well as I said it comes down to balancing. Not just basing it around buffs and debuffs but having them but having them on top of well balanced classes it isn't a bad thing.

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