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Path Idea

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by azmundai, May 22, 2013.

  1. popober

    popober Cupcake-About-Town

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    True, but again, Fauna is ALREADY COVERED. Hell, collecting animals for various reasons, as pet or specimen, would be more in line with a scientist.

    But that's just it, everything is already covered. No point in adding in another path that focuses purely on one thing, much less one thing already covered by other paths. Anyway, from a meta viewpoint, collecting animals would be in the Completionist's gallery, no point in making a separate pointless path just to please some people.
  2. Trenan

    Trenan New Cupcake

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    Scientist and settler do not fulfill the achiever and socializers as easily as soldier and explorer, which is why there will be overlap.

    Also taking control of animals is very far mechanics wise from the other Paths. It would also be quite easy to develop objectives of the path which are not utilized by the others. FAUNA is not covered, scientists get to scan a random creature(you cant even scan a certain type of creature, it is random if you can scan them or not), their interaction with them is very minimal. They focus on LORE, like why exactly is that monster there and what it does. It has nothing to do with the use and application the animal can have for the world, such as food, work, pet, and medicinal.

    So far, none of the paths involve going out and collecting an object which can freely follow you back to camp. Everything seems to be an object that simply goes into your inventory. This again, would set it apart from the other Paths. Being able to ride it back to camp, or have it follow you would be something very different and noticeable by other players. You would instantly be able to understand that persons path is Wildlife related.

    Also, I never mentioned "collecting" animals, I do not care for a pokemon type system. I would care about interacting with nature, and not just the "unknown" which is what the scientist does. I see animals being used as tools and resources for the game world, not as a personal pet.

    Synergizing with other Paths is what im all about, how about instead of doing a jump puzzle with anti-gravity crystals, I summon a nearby giant bird, which flies the group to the top of the peak, so the explorer can drop a beacon.
  3. popober

    popober Cupcake-About-Town

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    If that so then why look for another path that only covers one thing and one thing alone? Kinda pointless to waste time and resources on something that's highly limited. Why not just make it some kind of pet system that can interact with your path, like say Soldiers being able to find dogs that can help with missions, Explorers having bears or wolves that hel with... uhh, exploring. Settlers can have some kind of sheepdogs, Scientists get whatever, I honestly don't know what they could use, although they already have their bots.

    That way, everyone gets a little something, plus it gets better synergy with your path. Just a suggestion, I honestly don't care about this idea.
  4. Trenan

    Trenan New Cupcake

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    I am a bit confused why you believe a Path focused on animals would only do a single task? I can just as easily generalize the other paths, which you seem to be okay with, into a single task.

    Soldiers : They Fight Stuff
    Explorers: They explore/travel the map
    Settlers: They build stuff for towns
    Scientists: They scan Lore objects

    How is it highly limited?

    Mission: Bait and Place traps in a certain area
    Mission: Tranquilize infected animal and apply antidote
    Mission: Subdue X amount of horned sheep, and bring them back to farmer
    Mission: Mount Giant Beast and use it to stomp out a camp of poachers and/or bad people
    Mission: Eliminate aggressive predators in the wild
    Mission: Collect 10 antlers, BONUS: Find a 10 point antler within 8 minutes, get extra reward
    Mission: Mount and ride back 5 rhino beasts
    Mission: Protect flock of sheep from attacking wolves, BONUS: if no sheep dies, get extra reward
    Mission: Get a male and female together to help populate the species
    Mission: Plow field, move boulders, drag trees using beasts with yolk and chains
    Mission: Collect eggs from nests
    Mission: Incubate egg, and raise hatchling, then release into the wild.(24+ hour quest)
    Mission: Ride/Fly beast to different locations in a series of locations, protecting it while it handles its business at each stop.

    Perk: Beast may help you in combat for X minutes.
    Perk: Traverse tough terrain by temporarily riding specialized beast.
    Perk: Allow party members to temporarily ride beasts.
    Perk: Use beast to break open cave system for other players
    Perk: Become more adapt at fighting Beasts
  5. popober

    popober Cupcake-About-Town

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    Because they only really do one thing? Hunt.

    Most of what you said are either already incorporated into standard, run of the mill quests, done by other paths, or can be strung together to create one mission. "Go to area, look for target, stalk target, kill target, skin target/get item of value/repeat 10x."

    Soldiers, by the definition, do a lot of <REDACTED> for their higher ups. Test out weapons, kill targets, do bad stuff.
    Explorers go out into the great outdoors, spelunk, find new things, treasures, etc.
    Settlers, well building a town is really a lot of things in one package.
    Scientists find out whatever <REDACTED> goes on around and what makes things tick.
    Really, just eheck the link I posted.

    Hunters? Hunt. "Go to area, find animal, tame/kill, skin repeat." That's honestly it. Whatever else you can dump on them is already done by the other paths. Trying to give them, say, a protection mission would be pointless as it's already done by the settlers, hell it would be better if done by a settler. A farmer protects his own sheep, a hunter doesn't have sheep. There's a difference between overlapping and redundancy.
  6. Trenan

    Trenan New Cupcake

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    EDIT:**I would like to point out that there are Path specific mount rewards, which would make this a pretty obvious choice, allowing you to mount a crazy creature of some sort.***

    Developers already stated everything you can do in a path is accessible via standard game content. There is literally nothing unique in any path. Soldiers and Settlers both have protection missions. Infact, 3/4ths of the Soldiers missions are "hold outs" which just involve fighting waves of enemies with slightly different end objectives.

    Every path explores, every path collects, every path battles several foes, every path fights a "boss". Every negative you use against a beast type Path exists within every other path, I honestly do not understand how you cannot see this. Your bias is clearly massive and blinding you from pretty much everything.

    Why would a settler protect a flock of sheep? Their business is with the TOWN, the flock I mentioned could be out in the middle of no where, I never said it belonged to a farmer.

    There is literally no difference between an Explorer finding an underground cavern, and a Scientist unlocking a hidden room. The end result is the same mechanic with a different name. So, a Settler goes out, and collects 10 supply crates for the town. A Scientist goes out and scans 10 pollen samples. Explain to me how they arent exactly the same? You walk to an object, click it to either 1) collect it or 2) scan it. They are literally identical in nature. You somehow think they are vastly different for some reason.

    Also you wouldn't be a hunter, it would be about co-habitating with animals, which is a fundamental necessity in any type of exploration or settlement world. Every human migration and settlement had to go through this very important step, otherwise they would not survive. This is especially true in a fantasy setting in which the majority of creatures are deadly to humanoid races.
  7. popober

    popober Cupcake-About-Town

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    True, but that's just it, my point is that everything, literally everything you're saying to give to a hunter path is already done, by other paths and by standard missions. So why bother? And why would you protect a flock of sheep in the middle of nowhere? Also, Settlers are also farmers, ergo they will most likely have farm animals, but really, just check this link: http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/the-game/paths/ Right there in Settler under Civil Defense, you can just imagine having to protect a farm from attacking monsters, kinda like townspeople or farmers forming a mob/militia.

    But really, think of this; you're part of a new civilization/crew/etc that just touched down on a deserted, unknown frontier. Tell me WHY or HOW you would live with animals right off the bat? First thing would happen would be for the scientists to study the indigenous species, a step that's certainly much more sane and beneficiary than trying to "co-exist" with them, something that would take years of mindless care before you even make any actual step. I mean, you have INTERSTELLAR TRAVEL-level technology, NO ONE is going to waste time mingling with animals, they'd all tractor beam them up and cart them off to the mothership, except maybe Aurins, but I honestly doubt Exile higher-ups would let something important be impeded by treehuggers.

    But really, think of any western, space or otherwise, that had hunters in them as an actual profession by the settlers. And no just because it has a cowboy doesn't make it a spacewestern, so those movies where Chuck Norris plays a raised-by-wolves buryly guy don't count.
  8. Trenan

    Trenan New Cupcake

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    Everything EVERY path does is already done by other paths or standard missions. So why are you picking on me? How do you not get this? Every path has like 10% of an almost unique ability attached to it, the rest of it is slightly altered content.

    There is 3 things you can do in a game regarding quests.

    1) Travel Somewhere
    2) Interact with something which doesn't fight back
    3) Fight something

    As you see there isn't a whole lot of real variation you can do. There is no possible way to make the paths even remotely unique in actual game play. The only way you can make it unique is by altering the form of the mission and the reward.

    Why would I protect sheep in the middle of no where? Because ranchers will eventually want those sheep for clothing and food. Im protecting a future investment. If I am a Path which is design to use animals as resources, why would I not intervene if I see something like that? Perhaps I have another mission active at the same time which requires me to use those sheep for some purpose, wrangle, kill, shave, feed, breed. If i let the wolf just kill them off I will lose my opportunity to finish that mission as well.

    Settlers in WS have no indication of farming, farming is something you do on your Housing Plot. There is also a major difference between farming Crops and Raising Livestock.

    Yes, so a 80 foot elemental worm is really going to care that I do not wish to co-habitate with it, and will just leave me alone. Just because you send a scientist to study a creature, doesn't mean it is gonna obey you and leave you alone. I'm sure you don't like spiders crawling over your face while you sleep, but guess what, they do whether you like it or not. If a wild hog is tearing up my fences and killing my livestock, do I call a scientist to come in and analyze the hogs for me? No, I call a hogger which comes in tracks them down and removes them. They also generally utilize the hogs for meat, jerky, and jewelry.

    The technology you speak of is high-grade uncommon technology. Does the game have players floating around in spaceships or teleporting from zone to zone? No. You walk with your own 2 feet. The technology you speak of is very much not apart of daily life. Why would Settlers have to gather supplies to build something? Surely with interstellar travel level technology we could just drop a pod which would automatically unfold itself into whatever structure we wanted.

    Where is your food source coming from that is feeding the planet? It is going to come from the local wildlife. So you obviously are going to start cultivating the edible plants and animals right away.
  9. popober

    popober Cupcake-About-Town

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    Wow, don't get so touchy. This isn't about you. What I'm saying is it's pointless to make something that caters solely to one interest. While true that there will be more paths some day, what you guys want is not enough to warrant being one. It neither caters to an actual, whole, playstyle, nor does it have anything that can be tied to it, like Soldiers actually doing soldier work, any passing adventurer can protect a flock of sheep for a farmhand as a quest. I mean honeestly, would you spend 50 hours just solely looking at tigers and playing pokemon? Why not just play pokemon instead?

    I'm not talking about uniqueness between paths, I'm talking about making something that, as a whole doesn't fit in the setting, vision, nor elements of the game but is also highly redundant in your wanted elements.

    Making a sole hunter as a whole path is pointless, it's too specific for that. It could fit as a profession, but you'd really only have the skinning bits, the rest is in-universe, not usable in game unless you make a whole class, in which case it would be another generic pet class, most of what you'd be looking for like taming or protecting wild animals for something other than battle, something already included in the Scientist path.

    They could probably make something like an actual mix of Explorer/Scientist/Settler, maybe something like a Ranger in real-life who builds some kind of reserve for his collected animals to preserve them and study. Just something off the top of my head, but I just realized that's already included in the Scientist path minus the reserve and collecting bit, Scientists just study in the field and a reserve would most likely be owned by the Faction government.

    But really, a whole load of the things you mentioned are all either done by other paths, run-of-the-mill fetch quests, or have absolutely no gameplay value, like the meat and jerky bit. You'd just be left with a generic pet class that "tames" animals for fights like GW2's ranger or WoW's hunter. If that's what you want then I hope one of the last unrevealed classes is one.
  10. Trenan

    Trenan New Cupcake

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    Your arguments are baseless and do not even make sense, they are completely controlled by your bias of not liking an animal type path.

    I have provided more than enough examples to show how this Path could easily be supported by the game and you retort back with no evidence of your own. There would be plenty of interest from players about a Beast path, since guess what? People like animals. It is why we have zoos.

    You do not care about the uniqueness of the path system, yet your biggest gripe is that it has aspects similar to others? Total contradiction.

    You also keep referring it to hunter, which implies just killing animals, which is the equivalent of me saying Soldiers should be renamed Assassins, since they just kill stuff. When infact Assassin is just a small part of their mission set. I have in no way suggested it would be just about hunting and killing animals.

    Interacting with wildlife is already a major element of the game, yet you say having it as a Path does not fit the vision? Also incredibly contradictory.

    Guess what? Exploring the game is something every player must do, must be pretty redundant to have an Explorer Path, assuming we use your logic.

    The entire point talking about this Path is that it is literally the only thing that has enough game content to support the Path. The world is filled with animals/beasts/creatures, so there would be plenty of content for the Path to expand upon. Tell me, what else exists within the game in enough quantity to support an entire Path? Everything else that was a major part of the game has been claimed by the other Paths.

    Who knows, maybe you can bribe NPCs and get discounts on your Warplot upgrades.
  11. popober

    popober Cupcake-About-Town

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    I do not dislike a pet path, I just honestly see no point. I said I didn't care about uniqueness between paths, never that I didn't see it. Soldiers, for example, while can be summed up in "kill stuff" something everyone does, have assassination missions, holdouts, playing with new toys, something other paths don't have. Scientists get to find out lore and info about things others can't. Explorers have access to new places others don't, unless you let them in. Settlers can build stuff, others can't. "Hunters" can study animals or kill them or protect them, something you do anyway regardless of class or path.

    What do you want? Protect animals? You'll most likely run into a quest doing so. Tame them? Hunter class. Skin them? Profession. Collect them? Hunter class or pet system. Use them in battle? Again, hunter class. Really the only thing that can answer your questions would be to introduce a Hunter class that has a pet. FYI, I'm referring to them as Hunters because that's what usually the pet classes archetype is called, an example is in WoW, either that or Ranger, like in GW2.

    But really, true that the game has a lot of things that can "support" it, those things are instead integrated into other things such as quests(capture x # of animals, protect this herd, etc), path missions (Scientist's Biology, Settler's Civil Duty), and possible professions(cooking for meat, skinning for leathers).

    The only way to integrate any animal taming is either in a pet system or an actual pet class, I'm sure neither of those will fulfill your interested, however. There is absolutely no more that can warrant for a whole path to be devoted to it.

    Again, FYI, the unrevealed things aren't paths, they're CLASSES and RACES, two for each. Maybe one class is a pet class or they'll release a new path in the far off future, who knows.
  12. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    You haven't even played the game yet and you already aren't satisfied with the coverage of the 4 Bartle types? I mean there's plenty of good reasons not making a Path for every possible potential playstyle out there. So when players roll alts they feel like their levelling was meaningful and different. Also, adding too many options which you can't go change is a bad thing. More options is worse. I think Carbine should wait to see how the current Paths work, and if they feel there needs to be another way to play, add it then. Also, I've never seen any complaints from players that played the game about the path system. (This is because there's not a ton of player feedback from gameplay yet, it's too early to call it either way.)
    If you want a survivalist feel, go for explorer, if you want a researching the flora/fauna and wildlife, go for scientist.

    Also, the secret content for the Scientist and Explorer are COMPLETELY different. The scientist gets it to learn more about the world and possibly a buff or loot or a quest or something. Getting into the secret door for a scientist is a puzzle in itself. An explorer's secret door is based on observation and simply happening upon them, with the reward being a new area to explore. I don't know if ALL explorer areas are secret shortcuts, but all the explorer content I've seen that's secret is a new room with movement. Scientists have the challenge that gives them a reward, which gives them a sense of achievement, and a strict end to when they have gotten there (very important for the achiever types). Explorers are rewarded by challenge, seeing new things, trying new things out. Explorers wouldn't mind if their secret tunnel went on forever and panned out to be nothing at all, as long as they found it interesting.

    I hardly think secret door == secret door.
  13. Trenan

    Trenan New Cupcake

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    I have never made a complaint about the Path system, I love the Path system. The entire beginning of this post was someone who wanted a Path that focused on Animals. The mention of the Bartle Types was because the Achiever and Socializer are different depending on the player, these cannot be so easily addressed by a Path. Building a fire so people can get a buff is an entirely different appeal to someone who wants to talk with and manage 1000+ guild members. That is why I "speculated" those 2 types will have the most overlap of any new path, if any.

    However, some guy comes in talking about how it isn't unique enough, when that can already be said about the current Path and the game in general. When you break the game down to its basic elements you are repeating the same objectives over and over, but they look and are described differently. Not to mention every type of content from a Path is available in some amount in standard content, so the entire point of suggesting a Path needs to be super special and unique is pointless.

    I seriously do not understand how people are so short-sighted to realize this. The Paths aren't even that major part of the game, they said roughly 20%. People make it sound like you will be doing nothing but Path objectives all the way to end game. Heaven forbid 2 paths both have a fetch quest(which guess what? every Path has a fetch quest, in fact every Path has the same quest every other Path does).

    and yes, Opening a secret door, is exactly the same as opening a different secret door. They are both content blocking obstacles which can be removed by a Path so that players can access the stuff inside. I'm well aware that the content inside will be different, which isn't exactly the point.
  14. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Woooooah, you're negating the fact that settlers have to work with other settlers to get a major building project done. The tier 1 stuff you can do by yourself, the tier 2 you might be able to do a few by yourself but the tier 3 will need MANY settlers, to build and upkeep. If you want to talk and manage 1000+ players, no one's stopping you from doing that. I'm saying that the prospected path is simply a carbon copy of parts of other classes, and cannot be expanded much.

    The problem is, this isn't "once you break it down it's the same" it's quite literally the same. Scientist has the ability to scan creatures while you're fighting it to get a buff against it. And the other half of the path seems to be more of a crafting profession, which is breeding animals and taxidermy.

    This argument goes either way, it's only 20% of your content, if it only covers half of the things you like to do, the quests will cover the other half.

    Actually this is exactly the point, who cares if you can get into a secret space if you don't like what's inside? The difference is the Scientist has the getting the door open being their content, and the explorer has the stuff inside the door being their content.

    In the end, it would be better as a crafting profession, not a path, as the path of "capturing and releasing animals, and learning about them," doesn't seem very exciting or different from scientist that has a crafting profession of being able to make custom pets.
  15. popober

    popober Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'd just like to inform you, man, that the unrevealed things are CLASSES and RACES, not paths. I just assumed you read that they were planning to reveal more paths in the future, which they probably will, maybe 1 or 2 years from now seeing the massive scope of paths. Maybe one of the unrevealed classes is a hunter pet class.

    Still, they haven't shown anything about crafting professions AFAIK, but your ideas work more that way.
    Skinning for leather armors
    Animal bones for trinket crafting
    Taxidermy for housing designs

    I'm sorry, but it just doesn't have enough to warrant a path, it doesn't fit. At all. It's more a crafting profession or a class mechanic than an actual playstyle.

    But even then they won't be together as Taming animals would be a class mechanic, skinning and bone collecting would be different gathering professions, same goes with trinket crafting and taxidermy being separate crafting professions. Dumping them into one category would imbalance the economy.
    BlindSear likes this.
  16. Morgrihmm

    Morgrihmm New Cupcake

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    I hear what people are saying, but honestly although it would be cool, not sure it would "fit" in the game. It is also way to late in the game development to add a new path, with all the associated animations, dialogue, quests/missions etc.

    Now don't get me wrong if anyone cold pull it off its the Wildstar guys, their animations are super smooth, but it is very labor intensive to get them that smooth. Maybe in a future expansion they will come up with something similar to what you are asking for. These guys probably more than anyone else listen to what the community is asking for.
  17. Cuddles

    Cuddles New Cupcake

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    With all the bickering aside on how to implement this, I just wanted to say I would really like to see something similar to the creature handler from star wars galaxies. I can still remember vividly the first time I stepped foot on Tatooine to see this badass with a Bull Rancor!

    Having the possibility to tame animals, breed and train them to supply them to your guild and warplots or to sell them to strangers. I would scout Nexus in search for the rarest and most awesome creatures to tame! If it is implemented as minor assets of current paths, I fear it will only be a shimmer of its true potential. May I be clear that the hunter class from WoW is a dumbed down version of the possibilities of creature handling, and an insult thereof.
  18. F8L Fool

    F8L Fool Cupcake-About-Town

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    I don't want to reiterate too much on what people have already said, but this entire thing sounds like a mixture of the Explorer, Scientist, Gatherer, Crafter and a whole bunch of other things that would need an entirely new class to implement. For starters pet classes are absurdly hard to implement effectively in any game, let alone a skill-shot game such as this. Adding in an AI/auto-targeting component to a class would be detrimental to the game, while pure micro-managing its movement and attacks (in addition to yours) would be borderline insane.

    How would you deal with the wide system telegraph damage in PvP and PvE? Unlike most target based games literally every skill is a cone/AoE that would rip a pet to shreds. They would either need to have an obscenely large health pool or be immune to most damage; both concepts are broken as can be. So that idea is somewhat shot unless they take some serious liberties with it, or completely rework the combat.

    As for the rest of the things like collecting and whatnot; that's a pretty small niche. One that is already incentivized by having achievements attached to them in other games and therefore reinforced. Paths are first and foremost for rewarding specific styles of play and crafting custom content for it. Styles that extend beyond class distinction (pets, swords, magic) and into quirky things like:
    • walking up a steep mountain just because or revealing 100% of every map (Explorer)
    • pulling excessive amounts of enemies at a time to challenge yourself or show off(Soldier)
    • meticulously reading every line of quest text and lore books in the game (Scientist)
    • or sitting in town hubs all freaking day and making roasting marshmellows at campfires (Settler, obviously they do more than that, but hey lol)
  19. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    F8L
    you obviously didn't read my post as it clearly states that players would not control the animals like a pet class would.

    the whole point of this idea was to add some more player created content to combat in the game. to add a path that can capture mobs and release them for other people to duel or to have them attack a town or something. so when you are twirling your furry little tail at an outpost, and some dominion comes along they can release a big metal maw on the town.

    It amazes me that certain people have nothing better to do that sit around and disprove a simple suggestion as if the world would end if it was implemented. This community used to be so interactive and supportive .. now it's just full of argumentative drivel like all the rest :|
  20. popober

    popober Cupcake-About-Town

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    That... actually sounds more along the lines of something a Soldier would do, it sounds a whole lot like Black ops. Only instead of taming/capturing them yourself, you're given a new toy that can hypnotize/bait mobs then set them loose on an opposing settlement, still the concept applies.

    "Argumentative drivel" simply because they don't agree with you. Right.

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