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Payment Model Discussion Mega-Thread

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by MiZTiiX, Jun 25, 2012.

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  1. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    TBH, I would prolly sub to 2-4 games at the time, if it was 9.99$ for a monthly sub with a 20%-40% discount for taking an annual or halfyear sub. All content included.
    Or buy to play content packs, maybe with ingame vanity rewards for pre-ordering upcomming DLCs.

    Any cash shop/microtransaction then better be in the form of out of game merchandice, tickets to real life special events, or vanity fluff that people with enough time can be ingame rewarded similar items for.

    I would rotate the actual playtime between games I know there are active friends on and games I have yet to explore quest chains, locations, achievements etc. on. I am too happy about different features for different game modes and char builds in different games to limit myself to one for long. I have not seen any game contain all of my favorite stuff in some sort of streamlined smooth way -- WoW is possible the closest, but they also had a long time to develope it.
  2. Tiktak

    Tiktak Cupcake-About-Town

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    They should choose one.

    "Buy to Play" or "True Subscription" since WoW's "Buy AND Sub" system is going the way of the dinosaur... Or should do.
  3. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    I agree, as I stated in my first post in this thread, the gamer demographics and the competition among game publishers is simply not going to allow that model for much longer, especially not if the games price is about the same as a B2P game and the sub is about the same as a P2P game. They both have to be significantly lower to make BnP2P competitive in the future.

    I am trying to make a business model definition list (link in my sig), but maybe I should move the question about what I am missing to this forum, seems to be plenty of people here with personal experience with different types of payment models.
  4. Sprby

    Sprby Cupcake

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    I think the payment method is not an issue for this MMORPG, considering the points you have made about player base. What you have to understand is how the Wildstar team is approaching the subscription based model. The environment is one selling point to the game, using time and resource to developing this part of the game is what will ultimately determine the player base.
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  5. JarNod

    JarNod WildStar Haiku Winner 2012 / Lead Guinea Pig

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    Not to beat a dead horse, but something that sprang into my mind after watching the housing video. I still think F2P is a death knell for any MMO but that's just my personal opinion and shouldn't be the point of this post. I do now think that a B2P where the initial price is $50 or so with some cosmetic MTs is a good model to follow too.

    Why do I bring up the housing video? Because if you have cosmetic furniture to buy with real money, that would be a fantastic way for Carbine to get the needed cash to continue developing content. I don't think that people should be able to buy furniture that would only drop in high level dungeons, but players should be allowed to buy unique chairs and desks. It would be an effective way of providing a sought after cosmetic item without disrupting game balance.

    Thoughts?
  6. Sprby

    Sprby Cupcake

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    Either go with the subscription or the cash shop but not both.
  7. Dyraele

    Dyraele "That" Cupcake

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    Why not? Is there a certain reason you had in mind?

    I would agree to cash shops for vanity/fluff stuff if it also allowed the sub to be lowered. Maybe they could charge $5 to $10 a month instead of the $15 in that case. I would never want a cash shop if was for anything that affected gameplay.
  8. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    The problem for the players is speculation in acceptable dropout rate vs gains on cash shop transaction.

    Instead of making an acceptable cash shop with acceptable items to a majority players, they find out how much pain their player base can take before they quit, specifically the part of the player base, who spend a lot on cash shops, and then turn it down half a notch right there. Those types of cash shops gives the whole concept a really bad name.

    Add intrusive ingame advertising and you have another F2P fail, no matter if it is a cash cow.

    Simply because it gives all the F2P business models a bad rep up front.
  9. Sprby

    Sprby Cupcake

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    It's my gaming preference which supports the idea that any item created should be obtained through in game mechanics rather then purchased. If you are starting from a subscription model I would keep it that way. I know how tempted players can get to go out an buy this sweet looking mount that just arrived in the cash shop and the rest of us have to put up with it or buy one.
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  10. Dyraele

    Dyraele "That" Cupcake

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    I see, I happen to agree. I hate cash shops in general and like the sub model. Having items mostly crafted is a good idea I believe.
  11. Sprby

    Sprby Cupcake

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    This is an ideal issue similar to what I discussed with JarNod on the Dungeon Finder topic. I will stress to you the issue of how likely do you think a younger player will blow their money on cosmetics through a cash shop playing Wildstar? This is not necessary to have, yes a convenience to some but do you really want to have this in Wildstar?
  12. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    Peer pressure? you guys must be from the generation that is/was brought up with the idea that it is a must have to have the right brands on the cloth to be accepted as cool, if something as peer pressure makes you feel obliged to buy a mount from a cash store instead of earning a -- maybe uglier one -- in game.

    I feel old now.

    btw, I still want my pink pegasus pony with wings and horn and rocket fire on the hoofs
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  13. Sprby

    Sprby Cupcake

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    Absolutely peer pressure :)
    And for a sweet game like Wildstar this would be huge.
    And more so individually will I be contributing to that peer preasure.
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  14. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    I only just got my 100 mount achievement on my hunter on WoW. But when I quit the game, I was at 99 and I got them the hard way, in game working my but off looking for them everywhere all over the place. Only ones in game I do not have is raid ones, I never got lucky on those rolls. So now I fly my 100 mount achievement mount around, because around the corner there is plenty new mounts in MoP and that achievements will become cheap as dirt :)
  15. Sprby

    Sprby Cupcake

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    That's exactly how cash items would tilt the subscription based model.
    When it starts affecting the achievements its crossing the line Pay To Win. Is it not?
  16. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    I got mine through ingame content, so I feel good about my achievement for myself. The last one I got to get the achievement, when I got back into the game a couple of weeks ago, was the vial of sands mount on the first day. I don't care how others gets it with the new content and cash shop mounts, as long as I know, I got mine "the right way" that no money can buy. It is about feeling good about me, not about feeling good about having an achievement vs others having achievements.

    If comparing myself to others was all it was about, then I can just go buy everything money can buy and feel good about the superficial superiority however fake the ground for having it was.

    But yes, to me, if something is effecting the achievement for progression, then it cross the line to Pay to Win and I agree on that being a really bad developement and I want nothing of it.

    Your bar is set for all achievements, also those not all about progression, I am a little more softie about those rich time challenged people out there, who want to pay for the developement of the next game update :p

    As long as I can still forfill the achievement ingame without absurd demands, like having to win the roll for a massive number of 25 man raids, I can accept that other people can buy their way to parts of non-progression achievements, like pet and mount collections, if they like to do so and have more money than time.
  17. Sprby

    Sprby Cupcake

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    You are a more accepting then me on this. For a lot of players it is about bragging rights, like myself for an example. I would show of in game with a new mount.
    So what it comes down to is either support the cash shop or not and my preference is the subscription. You can understand how the cash shop could cross the fine line of the core values you hold on game progression.
  18. JarNod

    JarNod WildStar Haiku Winner 2012 / Lead Guinea Pig

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    I was trying to talk about having a buy price similar to GW2 with a cosmetic in game shop. You can go to Protostar and "swipe your credit card", and purchase a relatively custom piece of furniture. There should also be furniture that can be gotten through raiding/achievement hunting/exploring so that the "coolest" people can show off their awesome loots. But that way the "casuals" can buy cosmetic furniture that doesn't effect anything in the game world, except show off awesome stuff.
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  19. Sprby

    Sprby Cupcake

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    I do not want to be taking down a raid boss to get a sofa. :) This has got be a crafting setup.
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  20. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    Your assumption is that a cash shop has to deal in power items. It does not. It could be in out of game merchandive, like computer accessories, tickets for fanfairs or novels based on game lore. It could be cosmetic for roleplaying purpose or just because you like looking like someone with a dupont hat on.

    Also, if there is a distinct difference between a raid dropped mount and a cash store mount, there is still bragging rights. Cash shop mounts should NOT have the same visual identity as ingame rewarded mounts. Then they are totally fine.

    The problem is that cash shops do not need to sell power items, but some publishers appears to be speculating in how many they drive off letting that stuff in vs how much they can earn on that stuff from those, who couldn't care less. The tag F2P is therefore in main parts attractive to those who couldn't care less, the rest of us approach it most sceptically.

    Gives F2P a bad undeserved rep. If done well, it could work. Except those doing it well would not be able to get their message cross, because many people assume the only cash shop there is, is the type done badly, so hearing a model out is not an option, the tag F2P is enough to disqualify.

    This is why I work on my little project of trying to create a sort of taxonomy for MMO game business models. I want to try classifying different types of F2P models and hybrids based on access and limitations and types of goods on the cash shop.
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