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Payment Model Discussion Mega-Thread

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by MiZTiiX, Jun 25, 2012.

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  1. Honoracy

    Honoracy Cupcake-About-Town

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    Do a buy to play with micro transactions (pets, stuff for house, etc). /endthread :p
  2. John

    John "That" Cupcake

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    If only it were that simple :rolleyes:
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  3. Lethality

    Lethality "That" Cupcake

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    That's probably the most likely scenario...

    I just don't want them to follow GW2's lead and put any sort of convenience or otherwise game-connected items in there. Only pure cosmetic fluff.

    And even then, I hope there's no cross-over currency like gems. If there's a shop, it should be external and out-of-game on the web and you should pay with real money as Blizzard does. I think that would satisfy my worry a bit with B2P.
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  4. Avenged

    Avenged Cupcake-About-Town

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    How would you pay for future content, without the developers having a guarantied income source monthly, but still having monthly server, building, and employee costs?

    Thats the problem with the B2P model. We have never seen it in a game that offers near the amount of content that a P2P game does. Gw1 would be the poster child and it severely falls flat to any game out near the amount of time it has been out. Abyssmal.
  5. Honoracy

    Honoracy Cupcake-About-Town

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    Micro-Transactions in a game like this will make them way more money than a monthly sub IMO. Same way League of Legends makes money. There game is F2P and only lives off micro-transactions. I would still maybe fool around on WOW if it didn't have a sub. I don't get why I buy a game to just pay a fee every month on top of it. Shouldn't it be just a sub and no down payment lol.
  6. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    Doesn't have to be.
  7. John

    John "That" Cupcake

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    To me f2p only works with cosmetic items, I think most people would agree with that. With Wildstar being a game that seems to be catering more to the hardcore audience; and things they've said like, "we want the best housing rewards to be earned through blood, sweat and tears," I wonder how much room there is in a game like this for pure cosmetic items from a cash shop.

    Gw2 for example was a game built on cosmetic gear, they strove for a game style that didn't have vertical progression. Cosmetics were a big thing in that game because that was the primary way of progressing your character. Wildstar seems to be adopting a vertical progression model, where stats are the most sought after asset, not cosmetics.

    I'm not saying there couldn't be a cash shop, but the game systems they have built don't seem to offer a ton of player incentive for a big cosmetic market.
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  8. Lethality

    Lethality "That" Cupcake

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    I don't know about that. We already know that the percentage of players that spend money on mtx in cash shops is *extremely* low. With a p2p, every player is guaranteed to give you money every month.

    If a game for example has sold 1 million boxes, and 10% (an over-generous estimate, based on industry data) of those players spend $15 a month on mtx, that's $1.5m per month. Not bad. But if that same game was a subscription game and had just 250,000 subscribers, that would be $3.75m per month in revenue.

    A quarter of the players, but nearly triple the revenue!
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  9. Acidblood

    Acidblood Cupcake-About-Town

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    Proof?
  10. Honoracy

    Honoracy Cupcake-About-Town

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    40-60 for the game, then sell house items, pets and mounts. Smooth sailing :D. I already know all my spare money will sink into WS. Even the people who don't purchase stuff will still have bought the game. I will be super surprised if they do F2P or a Sub Fee. I'm looking at it from a marketing perspective.

    Well there is a few sides to that. The younger players will have to either ask their parents to buy them the game or have some money to go to Gamestop, Walmart etc to buy the box. If the game is sub they will need a CC or if they sell a card in stores they will need some money to get that every couple months or ask their parents to use their card (which is pain, been there when I was 15). Micro-transaction would be bought from mostly the older community who can access it via having a job and a CC. I'm sure some younger kids might have a debit card or cool parents though.

    I just find it easier to see the game being sold in stores and then having extra content to be bought. I know a lot of people do the following when looking into MMORPG'S; They check all the F2P first (cause it costs nothing to check out /bonk), then they see all the ones that are B2P and look up reviews/videos to see if it's worth the money and anything with some sub + buying it is just a huge turn off, it's a lot of money to fork up for some game you might not like. Yes I know some games have a trail etc, but that doesn't server most games justice.

    Wildstar being a new IP and not having a HUGE fanbase "yet" would do best with B2P and MTX imo :D
  11. SteveDiggler24

    SteveDiggler24 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Have we run out all the F2P/B2P fans?

    I can't wait for Wildstar and to start paying my subscription!

    Edit: I posted too soon.

    I can't tell if this is a troll to keep conversation going, or a legitimate contribution. We've been through this. From a market perspective, there's nothing that offers the experience that Carbine has been slowly rolling out via hints, reveal videos, & expansive discussion with Q/A on development goals & game design.

    And the belief that the subscription-model doesn't have an interested audience that's substantial enough to have the game's population erupt when the game play provided is this sensational, look no further than the 12+ million subscribers over several current P2P games available, not to mention the F2P/B2P players who can ignore the MMORPG community's reviews no longer, and finally have the opportunity to "see the light"

    I would argue that a majority of those who purchase and play these games are of age to earn and spend their own money, and I'd also argue that a lot of them are smart enough to know quality when they see it, have a decent understanding of the relation to value & spending their money, and aren't easily mislead into believing that free games with paid perks provide the same experience as paid membership with improved game play as the only incentive to keep paying.

    Wait a second....You know people that, when looking into a new MMORPG, start with F2P games? how often are they doing this? Sounds like a bi-monthly task complete with free access to frustration & false hope. They could save themselves some time by going to Barnes and Noble, buying an interesting book or 2, and signing up for the Wildstar Beta. Everything else has either lost it's taste or is simply child's play... err that's just me...

    Wildstar doesn't have a huge fan base because they haven't even started BETA yet! They were a big hit at PaX, this forum grows more every day, and people are checking their emails obsessively in search of BETA invitations.

    Guess how popular World of Warcraft was before BETA.. I don't know, but I'll bet my savings account it wasn't 10 million people popular, and they released P2P! A great MMORPG's population is similar to the small snowball rolling down a giant mountain in early development, and as more information releases, and more people get excited, it grows and grows and grows. It's picking up speed now, but it's a bit early to start commenting on population. Carbine can talk about it all they want, they don't have the production history to have loyal followers to create instant hype. I think they're going to let their game do the talking, and it's so exciting it hurts.
  12. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    FFXI, WoW, and Rift. And soon, FFXIV. Perhaps even WildStar. I'm fairly certain Eve Online doesn't quite work that way, either.
  13. John

    John "That" Cupcake

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    Would that be enough though? Is there any b2p/f2p game that has thrived selling only those items?

    Based on everything we have seen so far, I don't think kids are the target demographic of Wildstar. The marketing and gameplay seemed to be very much so aimed at an older group imo.

    I agree that the hardest part is getting new players into the game, especially with a new IP. Im hoping they go with a low box price with the first month of play included for free, effectively the same as b2p but just for the first month. Personally I think the game will sell itself once people get into the world, and they would be willing to pay for subsequent months once they see it firsthand.
  14. Honoracy

    Honoracy Cupcake-About-Town

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    When WOW first introduced MTX they could have easily have took away their sub and have still been making a ton of money. They actually showed how many of their first MTX were bought and it was $25 a pop. That's like selling a mini expansion. I'm not opposed to paying a sub for WS, but I don't think it's the best route to go.

    I wasn't saying that I thought kids were their target consumer so I hope I didn't come off that way. I heard Jeremy Gaffney explain they wanted to appeal to even older audiences and they currently have a "Teen" rating. If they want to add stuff that would make that rating go higher then they weren't opposed to it since they aren't targeting a certain group of people. They just want to make a fun game and not be limited by the rating.
  15. John

    John "That" Cupcake

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    But wow at the time they did that was a *very* established game with 10 million players who had invested a lot of time in Azeroth. Im not sure how well a $25 mount would sell on opening day of Vanilla WoW, let alone in a brand new IP like WS.

    In the same vein of 'not wanting fun to be limited by the rating,' a f2p model does have a very clear limit on game design, as choices must be made under the pretense of getting players into the cash shop.
  16. Honoracy

    Honoracy Cupcake-About-Town

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    I just believe that people are really going to fall head over heels for this game. It's going to blow up. I'm down for whatever their choice is. Subscription based games is just blah. I don't see that winning votes on a poll. It's going to be between B2P and F2P. I'll dance in a dress if they do a sub, that's how shocked I'll be! LOL
  17. SteveDiggler24

    SteveDiggler24 Cupcake-About-Town

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    What? I understood that correctly.. I think... WoW at the time of cash shop release "could" have willingly provided a free game that 10 million people were ALREADY subscribed to, and still made great profit?
    10 million x 15$ = 150 million dollars. Now, the almighty cash shop which creates such mind blowing profit would need to sell 3.33 million mounts at the extremely valuable 45$/month just to equal what they were making before. What a deal, sign me up!

    Age of Conan was limited by the rating... but the terrible delivery of play experience along with a release that was arguably more than 12 months early had more to do with the resulting fail.

    Assuming you will still be head over heels if it's P2P, you should make an event out of buying that dress, it might be the last time you buy a cosmetic upgrade because of an online game for a while...
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  18. Malorak

    Malorak Cupcake-About-Town

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    I don't care if it's F2P because even subscription based games have idiots.

    I'd be all in for B2P since it's a cool model Idea.

    Subscription?...Lot of games failed that, so...Naah, probably not.

    It will probably be B2P or F2P as long as it's not pay2win I don't care :D
  19. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    They failed because there was something wrong with the game, not the payment model.
  20. Honoracy

    Honoracy Cupcake-About-Town

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    Oh boy.

    People get so literal on forums. My point is WOW is at the point where they could drop their sub and float off MTX and expansions. I wouldn't be surprised if they went some new F2P model like TOR eventually. I was never saying they should just dump their subs, ofc no one is going to flop all that money. I was saying they proved they could make good money through MTX and could still be in business not needing a sub based model.

    And if it's not P2P? Then you wear it? Deal.
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