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Payment Model Discussion Mega-Thread

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by MiZTiiX, Jun 25, 2012.

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  1. Acidblood

    Acidblood Cupcake-About-Town

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    Actually I would say WS already has a sizable fan base, and judging by sites like mmorpg.com and the generally positive feedback from events like the Arkship and PAX I would say it is only growing; and they haven't even gotten started on the real marketing campaign, or beta. Besides that, it's better to start with a small group of devoted fans and grow from there, gaining new players after the initial launch issues (all online games have them); if the game is any good at all word will get around and subs will follow.

    Umm, what? Those are all (reasonably) successful P2P games... which is exactly what I want for WildStar. My comment "Now you could argue, 'but that's not the way is SHOULD be done'; wake up, it's the way IT IS done." was in reference to Defiance, the latest B2P, which is basically asking fans to shell out $100~$130 up front for the 'full experience' (or risk paying even more later).
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  2. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    The way you said it to me came across as some kind of sweeping declaration of the situation in MMOs (or games in general) these days, and that we should just accept it because, while it may not be how it should be done, it's how it is done.

    Sorry if I misunderstood.
  3. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    definitely agree. wow was initially released with far less people in mind than it has now. so much so that they had to drastically increase the number of servers at release.

    also Rift released p2p and that was an equally as unknown ip/game/company and they did well enough.
  4. Avenged

    Avenged Cupcake-About-Town

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    I know I threw this in quite a while ago in the argument honoracy, but one of the great things about a p2p model as opposed to a b2p model as well, is that in general you will see a lot of added content in between expansions. This is not something you see a lot in the F2P, or B2P market as content is generally going to be reserved for a new xpac to sell exclusively because again it is money driven development. Perfect example would be swtor which has now had 2 major content patches 1.6 and 1.7 with absolutely no class balancing, dungeon tuning, pvp balancing or anything. Look at any patch prior to their 1.6, (1.5 was their official switch to the F2P model) and you have to scroll down for days every time their was a major patch from all of the sweeping changes the developers were working on. The minor updates are even worst. I'd probably uninstall if I had to look at 2 game patches in a row that only changed pricing on cash shop items. Also in the short amount of time that the wildstar team talked about the MTX system in that private demonstration they did mention as well that although they wanted MTX for house hold items, that they did not want them to feel like they took away from the impact of what players could do in game on their own via crafting, and other activities. If this is the case then the amount they put in the cash shop will become pointless eventually as we will have a set number of plots for housing. How do they continue to extract cash from the top guilds that will be achieving "the leet" items for their housing and armor etc? Even when new stuff comes out on wow, I am in a guild with about 50 active members and no one buys anything. Some of the the multi-millionaires in the guild might convince someone to buy them one for gold, but none of the stuff they release ever looks cooler then the top raid mounts. Only cosmetic item I have purchased through the shop was the cinder kitten, and that was because the proceeds went towards the hurricane sandy relief.
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  5. Malorak

    Malorak Cupcake-About-Town

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    Which is why I guess that Wildstar won't try it. Few games succeed in doing so, not saying it's impossible or anything but not very likely either
  6. Honoracy

    Honoracy Cupcake-About-Town

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    I wouldn't mind if it was b2p with a sub and mtx. I'm for sure playing no matter what. The only reason I don't suggest sub is because I want a big player base so I feel immersed in a large community. I just don't want a sub to scare off people who might have played otherwise. If that makes any sense :p
  7. Rakkis

    Rakkis Cupcake

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    F2P also scares off people as well. F2P means casuals only.
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  8. Avenged

    Avenged Cupcake-About-Town

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    It will actually be harder for me to convince people to come over if this is a F2P then if it is a sub. Actually almost impossible. F2P games still have very negative stigma's in a lot of circles. Any competitive guild will stay miles away.
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  9. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    I have significantly higher expectations for this game. There is no reason for them to sell themselves short by going B2P or F2P, not when they have the makings of an MMO that can stand just as well as FFXI, Rift, WoW, and Eve.
  10. WildHawk

    WildHawk Cupcake

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    dont forget the fact that ESO is going to be released this year and it has a HUGE fanbase ppl who played it says its the new WoW if not better
    therefor most ppl might choose ESO

    so i say B2P is the best way cause ppl will be like "ESO is sub fee based ? hell i rather buy me wildstar"
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  11. Acidblood

    Acidblood Cupcake-About-Town

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    Actually anyone who has taken a closer look at ESO would compare it more to SWTOR... i.e. instanced world, driven by story, no raids, PvP only in a special zone... yes people will flock to it because of the name, but WildStar has so much more going for it, especially long term.
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  12. Lethality

    Lethality "That" Cupcake

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    The worst mistake they could make would decide on their business model based on some other game's business model. This is a marathon, not a sprint... they have to do what's best for the long-term!

    The other part is to get the marketing message straight. Because I honestly believe these two games will appeal to totally different people. Sure, there is some crossover but when it all shakes out, two very different kinds of players will play each game. As long as WildStar gets the ones who are interested in their type of game, TESO won't matter in the slightest.
  13. jonbones

    jonbones Cupcake

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    Willfully ignoring other (extremely popular) contenders in the marketplace is a terrible business strategy, fyi.
  14. SteveDiggler24

    SteveDiggler24 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Just check out the Carbine website. This is a company put together by some of the brightest minds in the industry that have been involved with several of the most successful MMORPGs to date. The panel's Q & A at PaX is interesting if you haven't watched it. Their goal, the concept behind Wildstar, and their focus throughout the past few year's development has been to create the best MMORPG on the market. One hell of a task, how do they plan on doing so?

    Straight from their website regarding their development team's experience.

    A collaboration of all the good things that came from those games cannot possibly be overvalued at 15$ a month with a quality production. In the Q&A, they mentioned examining the games on the market and identifying what's missing in their game experience. Carbine's intention has been, since day 1, to deliver a complete game experience, one that speaks to the deficiencies of other games, which is unrivaled by it's competitors. While I agree that's much easier to say then to successfully deliver, I'm sold on Carbine's ability to get the task done from what I've seen and heard so far. I mean, look at the spokespeople for Wildstar, they're all dedicated gamers that are almost too excited when talking about their game, and this is a great sign.

    Now with all that said, if this game is viewed by the MMORPG community as just that, how can a P2P format really turn that many people away? I don't accept that there is a large % of the genre's fan base that will look towards other games, such as GW2, in the case that Wildstar goes P2P. That's also easier said then done.
  15. Cogburn

    Cogburn Cupcake-About-Town

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    Personally I like the B2P format, but I wont argue for any other reason than I just don't want to pony up the $15 a month. The P2P will not turn me away from Wildstar and I certainly believe it would be the best option for the games future, but cash flow is too tight for me to be able to pay for it monthly and feel secure financially.
  16. Aranguard

    Aranguard New Cupcake

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    Free-to-play games done right usually bring in MORE revenue than pay-to-play games. I'm personally a fan of the buy-to-play model (e.g. GW2), where you buy the game once and that's it. The developers can then sell cosmetic and convenience items for additional revenue.

    The buy-to-play model is one of the reasons GW2's active population continues to grow after release, rather than decline as is normal with most MMOs (or any game for that matter). Imo, the age of the subscription fee is over.
  17. Avenged

    Avenged Cupcake-About-Town

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    A vast majority do not want any cosmetic upgrades to be able to be purchased. They want time in game to decide how people look
  18. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    Wall of text crit me so hard. I can't say I agree though, GW1 provided huge amounts of content in their patches, then basically a fresh game with each expansion. Then on the P2P side of the spectrum you've got WoW, which charges you for their content patches then on top charges you for expansions.

    As for Wildstar, the sub is just generally seen as an outdated payment method, I'm personally fine with paying a fairly priced sub, but I don't want to be paying for expansions as well as that then (unless the sub is really small). I do agree that if there was a cash shop they'd really have to be careful on anything other than pets, you can't remove too much content from your game and make it cash only or people will feel ripped off, equally your cash shop has to have items players want to buy in order to sustain your running costs!
  19. Lethality

    Lethality "That" Cupcake

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    GW1, however, was by most counts not up to the standards of production values of subscription games like WoW. That's not to say players didn't find it "fun" to play, but the quality and volume of content delivery wasn't the same, nor was their cost to uphold the same kind of technical and support infrastructures.

    I firmly believe the subscription model is the best way to provide players with a set-it-and-forget-it service, and gives developers the predictable revenue stream they need to re-invest and deliver quality content on a consistent basis. The actual dollar amount should negligible for anyone that also meets the computer and internet connection requirements of these games.

    I also think it's fair to pay for expansions, because, at least the way Blizzard has done it, they really are entire new games. But perhaps there's a model more like EvE, where there's a sub fee but all expansions are perpetually free. Then again, there's not the same amount of art and theme park content in EvE so it's not quite the same... apples to oranges.
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  20. Tangoman

    Tangoman New Cupcake

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    I totally agree with this, as i'm sure many others do. Usually I also find that the time/money you invest into that one p2p game usually costs less than say, buying that extra new-release game every month. It does provide the dev's with a solid revenue that they can rely on allowing them to do what is best for the game, not worrying about trying to make new schemes for more money just to keep the current game floating. Reliable income = progressing game.
    I think paying too much for expansions can make players feel forced into paying too much. WoW for example pretty much made you buy the expansions because of the level cap/content increase and the fact that the majority, if not all of the playerbase, would upgrade voiding you of guildmates and online friends. Of course with a p2p game, most dedicated gamers are willing enough to shell out a few £££ for a game they cherish *cough* wildstar.
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