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Poll: Which raid size do you prefer participating in at end-game?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Kahlan, Feb 23, 2013.

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Which raid size do you prefer participating in at end-game?

  1. 10

    41.1%
  2. 15

    17.9%
  3. 20

    30.5%
  4. 25

    21.1%
  5. 30

    2.1%
  6. 35

    1.1%
  7. 40

    43.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Drasas

    Drasas Well-Known Cupcake

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    I'm inclined to agree. When I heard that this game was going to cater to fans of old-school raiding I jumped for joy. I rejoice in a dev team finally saying, "Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far! No further!" when it comes to compromising their vision.
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  2. John

    John "That" Cupcake

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    I think that epic feeling comes from being in a place that is at the absolute pinnacle of the game. Knowing there's another version of the same place, or similar place where the same gear drops really detracts from the epic feeling quite a bit
    I don't understand how me running a unique 40 man raid designed for my preference in any way detracts from you running a unique 20 man designed for yours. If were both getting to run the size we want, whats the problem?
  3. Kahlan

    Kahlan Guest

    Or, we can say that Warcraft was all ready on the decline and their development of accessible content is precisely because they're trying to remain profitable. Warcraft peaked in subscription numbers during Wrath of the Lich King. Not during Vanilla. The assumption that players left Warcraft in droves after the demise of 40-man raids and Vanilla isn't right either. The fact that Warcraft still has the largest player base of any game, after nearly a decade existence, where people have all but exhausted the lore and the mystique is pretty incredible. < There is your example of an MMO that is continuing to cater to casuals and managing to be successful. I attribute Warcraft's decline to the fact that 1) it's 10 years-old 2) most players have exhausted the experience and 3) it's visuals/technologies are in desperate need of a makeover. Having read some of what Lethality wrote about the implementation of Looking For Raid in Cataclysm - I can easily agree that this setup no longer sounds like raiding. This level of accessibility is pretty ridiculous. The thing is, in regards to Warcraft's continual fall from grace, it's not just ONE thing that is attributing to it. Is it possible accessibility played a role? Sure. But it's just as possible that a technology that is 10 years old is 10 years old and people want newer games. After all, before MMOs were a "thing," video gamers made a habit of playing their way through solo experiences, picking up another game and moving on. The whole community is quite adept and used to transitioning from one game to the next. We can't just pick and choose the dynamics of a community to support a singular opinion, without taking them all into consideration. The accessibility = games that suck and make players want to leave is only one part of the equation.

    Secondly, I never, ever said accessibility hasn't ruined games challenge wise. What I said was, I would love for games to be challenging. I would love for 10-mans to be as hard as 40-mans. What I do not like is that accessibility is not because of a player's skill level, but because of the size of the community they're willing to participate in. I don't know how many different ways I can say this? I know we disagree, but... it seems to me that what I am saying is fairly obvious? *Shrug*

    The debate is bent because people don't like giant communities. Again, I've said this repeatedly. I've said what would make me happy at length. It's not all about me either. In the end, Carbine will choose to do as they so please. I'm only here to voice an opinion.
    Mudfin and Ingsoc like this.
  4. moneda

    moneda Cupcake-About-Town

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    This thread is headed down a familiar path. :cautious:
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  5. Embermouth

    Embermouth Cupcake

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    I also am a fan of the bigger raids as they do add a certain epicness that some of the smaller ones dont (not always but in some cases).

    But it also comes down to a population thing. There is a reason there are 10man and 25man raids in WoW. You have smaller guilds and groups that just dont have the required amount for 25man raids, but still are able to enjoy the content on a smaller scale i.e. 10mans.

    That being said, I would love to see 20 and 40 in this game, mostly 40. Being an older WoW player and experiencing those 40man raids were truly epic, not too mention getting everyone on one sheet of music was an epic feat in itself. On the other had though towards the end of my WoW days, I really started to prefer 10mans. I had 9 other friends that were beast and getting 24 other morons to understand the fight and not mess up was kind of exhausting in the latter parts of WoW. Also you had less room to screw up in 10mans as you didnt really have room for a dps to die to fire or a healer to go down, unlike the bigger raids where the slack could more than likely be picked up.
  6. John

    John "That" Cupcake

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    WoWs demise didn't start when the game was 10 years old (its only 9 years old now), it started when it was 4 years old. The game peaked at the very, very beginning of wotlk, when WoW hype was at such a height that players were ready to buy anything Blizzard threw at them. Literally as soon as players started reaching level cap in Wotlk, the decline started. Prior to that, the game had be growing at an amazing pace for 4 straight years.

    Notice in the graph how the growth stagnates right at the end of 2008, about a month after wotlk release and right around the time the majority of players were reaching level cap and finding all the ultra accessible content:
    [​IMG]

    I understand that you think access to content should be determined by skill rather than choice of group size. But what I don't understand is that Wildstar does offer smaller groups, both 20 man and 5 man. How is that not satisfactory? They do have content for players who want smaller groups. Or is it just 10 man or bust for you?
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  7. Zap-Robo

    Zap-Robo Administrator • King Cupcake

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    Guys, can we leave out the "demise of WoW" discussion from this thread? Start a new one in Gaming Arena if you want to discuss it!
  8. FluidD

    FluidD Cupcake-About-Town

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    I dont think wows declining... and who cares if it is. All i know is i want harder raids... Idc whos doing what and how its wrong as long as WS gives me challenging 40 man content. I want a raid to at least take 2-3 months to beat the last boss.
  9. Kahlan

    Kahlan Guest

    This is in absolutely no way, shape, or form intended to be rude. Now that this is out of the way - have you read all of what I've been saying? Or are you skimming? I just discussed, on the page before this one, where Black Wolf asked what people would do if their raid preference weren't at end-game, what I would do. It seems like you're skimming - because you're inferring things I have not said or asking questions about things I have all ready commented on.
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  10. Kahlan

    Kahlan Guest

    Ok. Sorry for getting off topic.
  11. John

    John "That" Cupcake

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    I read that you would not play in that case. I personally would rather see 10 mans than 20 mans, as long as it was completely unique from 40 mans.
    But your right, tbh I haven't read all the posts, there is quite a few of them :p. I guess the part that perplexes me that you probably already answered somewhere is, what exactly do you have against 40 mans? I understand you like 10 mans, but it seems you are intent on trying to have no 40 mans in the game and I can't quite see why. Based on your poll, it seems many people do in fact like the large communities of 40 mans, why deprive them of that?
  12. Drasas

    Drasas Well-Known Cupcake

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    The problem that I've seen from other games with 2 raid sizes is the smaller group raiders automatically demand to be on equal terms with their larger counterparts. They want the exact same dungeon, they want the exact same difficulty, they want shared lockouts, they demand the same loot. We have this in multiple other games and I'm sure we'll see people demanding it here too.
    Mudfin likes this.
  13. Kahlan

    Kahlan Guest

    I have absolutely nothing against 40-mans for people who want 40-mans. Nothing. Every post I have made on these forums, including the two I reposted to Drasas (which you can read on page 6 of this thread by clicking the links in my post), are, "I want 40 mans for people who want them. But I also want 10 mans." I don't want to deprive anyone of anything. But, I do not want to be deprived of 10-man content at end-game. Only Carbine can decide whether or not this type of player is one they will want to address with their end-game.
    Ingsoc likes this.
  14. Brightag

    Brightag Cupcake

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    So...like uh...I don't have a raid size preference which is why I didn't vote in the poll. I just want meaningful raids. Since the raids will be unique for each raid size, I will try to do as much as I possibly can. Does anyone else feel the same?
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  15. Patrician

    Patrician "That" Cupcake

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    I bet everyone can agree with that! :) I am so very excited to see 40 mans again and will probably finally, after many years away from end game raiding content, dip back into that ocean once more!

    But since I'll have that 40 man experience keeping me entertained at max, it will also mean I'll want to try the other smaller group content as well. All of it!!

    The encounters need to be strategic, challenging, and robust enough for me too, of course. ^^. But from what I've seen... I'm pretty certain Carbine has THAT department covered in spades.
  16. Hope

    Hope Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think it's a little too early to tell, there's just so little we know about how raids will work. Speculations and making assumptions doesn't seem to work out too well so far. :p

    I've decided not to jump to conclusions just yet, there's plenty of questions I need answered first. PAX East is in a couple weeks though, maybe we'll learn something new there!
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  17. Lethality

    Lethality "That" Cupcake

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    10 man is too similar to 5 man. Not enough interesting additional group dynamics can happen with that small size increase. I feel 20 is about the minimum... and 50 is probably the maximum for practical purposes, unless there were some really creative mechanics!
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  18. Lethality

    Lethality "That" Cupcake

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    I need to echo this post, as it's something often over-looked.

    WoW's decline didn't start until the smaller raids and over-accessibility. Now, they've obviously kept respectable subscriber numbers, but the growth was definitely at a time where there was a huge carrot out of reach for the majority of players. That's human nature at it's finest - striving to get better at whatever we do!

    But the good news for WildStar is that 40 man raid will not be your only option to continue your journey on Nexus. It will not be for everyone, but that's ok - there will be *something* that is. No one should really be asking for smaller raids because of that alone, and certainly not until you see how things play out in-game. The combat system is like a beautiful baby that WoW and Guild Wars 2 made. That means there are things we can't even imagine about raids and raid size at the moment.
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  19. Brightag

    Brightag Cupcake

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    Are you referring to the what I said about unique raids? Scooter confirmed that below.

    http://wildstar-central.com/index.php?threads/multiple-raid-modes-confirmed-what-do-you-think.1372/
  20. Hope

    Hope Cupcake-About-Town

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