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PvP being "normalized"

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Spaz, Jun 3, 2013.

  1. Spaz

    Spaz New Cupcake

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    What is the point of having a currency to obtain gear through time and effort, gaining a high rating, only to have your gear normalized to everyone else' level? What is so wrong with having better gear than an opponent and killing him in less actions? Being on the under-geared side as well, it's extremely rewarding to outplay someone with better gear than you and to defeat them. Maybe I don't have all the information but from what I've read this is the way it is.

    This is from reddit, from the Wildstar combat / pvp team.

    If a person plays in an unranked Battleground they will be matched with other players with similar gear values to you. Additionally, due to the Rallying system (where players are boosted in level/stats to the max level of the Battleground bracket), your gear is then normalized to the max level of the bracket. If there were players with higher PvP gear, their gear is normalized as well.
    Rallying is also present in ranked Battlegrounds (the only difference here is that the player is matched with other similiarly rated players).

    So, what is the point of having pvp gear, if it just gets dropped to a "normalized" state.
  2. F8L Fool

    F8L Fool Cupcake-About-Town

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    It probably has to do with the games competitive PvP focus on Arenas and Warplots. I look at Battlegrounds as a method to practice basic coordination, get some gear for Arena (and Warplots in this case), learn the ropes of your class and pass some time. Since people will be able to earn experience, PvP currency and gold in BG's, I assume they want to make enjoying BG's as painless as possible. Who would want to level up in BG's if it meant getting ran over by extremely geared people? I doubt many. Furthermore the Rated system is aimed at premades while the Open system is for PUG's.

    The gear normalization also isn't set in stone. It is probably 5-8 months before launch and they have a lot of work to do on the game. But announcing that there will be some normalization in at least one organized PvP mode is a solid way to attract Guild Wars 2 players, who all swear by that approach to PvP. It's all about appealing to as many people as possible.

    P.S. Welcome to the site :).
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  3. Kleev

    Kleev Cupcake-About-Town

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    They're doing this so new players/alts aren't discouraged from playing unranked battlegrounds, which is how the vast majority of players will acquire entry-level PvP gear to begin with.

    I don't necessarily agree with them normalizing higher levels of gear to a median, but I understand it. Gear will still matter where it counts (ranked matches).
  4. ObliviousPrime

    ObliviousPrime "That" Cupcake

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    I like normalization and think it helps to keep skill more important the gear in pvp which is how it should be imo. I hated that in when I played SWTOR in the lvl 50 bracket the gear difference was such a major issue and annoyance, since sometime the other person isn't more skillful at all.

    why gear is there? for match making on gear score I think since the ELO is only for ranked BGs IIRC so there has to be some sort of match making in the unranked and gear score seems like the most likely way to do it.

    still normalized I would imagine too.

    PS. I did enjoy the gear normalization in SPVP (GW2)

    Edit: there are ELO ratings for BGs Arenas and warplots from what i remember reading and from the pvp podcast.
    those I think are the ranked matches from what I understood.
  5. Myrrdhinn

    Myrrdhinn Well-Known Cupcake

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    The point is: The system will be matching you, with players who have similar skills as you do. As you get better in the game and obtain better gear, you will be facing much more skilled players.

    The game will be very skill based (especially in pvp) and the position of your character will matter. The devs want to give players with the same level of skill and experience equal chance to win, but they want you to have a goal, to progress further.

    So you'll not be stomped the first time you'll go into a battleground.
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  6. Alex Moore

    Alex Moore New Cupcake

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    Are you guys saying that only certain aspects of pvp are normalized?

    Like the more chilled out BGs are normalized, but the Arena's and Warplots are not?

    I'm cool with that. Like the main post says, if ALL pvp is normalized then I don't see the point of ever earning gear for it/from it.
  7. Narrack

    Narrack Cupcake

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    It basically means if you hit cap months after everyone else you wont get butchered by the other players just because they have better gear (no you'l be butchered by them because they have more experience :p)

    Gives you a chance to gear up and learn how to fight without feeling unfairly disadvantaged, Then you can take that gear and experience to Arena's and Warplots.

    That and gear has a good use in the open world either for getting mats and stuff to sell (for pots and money to repair gear) or just hiding behind a locked door waiting for the "Lucky" scientist to find you.
  8. WakeskaterX

    WakeskaterX Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think it's fine as long as they only rally UP and when you are rallied up you aren't quite as strong as someone with the actual gear/level.

    If it brings you somewhat close, I think it's fine and balances out a bit so that you can actually do it without getting crushed, but it should never make you AS strong as the guys that level, just give you a little bit better of a chance.

    Also, in PvP don't rally DOWN, that'd suck and be bad. (I don't think they are planning to do this though.)
  9. Inv1cted

    Inv1cted Cupcake-About-Town

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    The key word there is unranked also it's very likely you won't be able to get top tier PvP gear unless you have a serious arena/BG/warplot team so grinding unrnked games only helps to a point.

    Also you still have an advantage just less so.
  10. Shadix

    Shadix Cupcake

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    I like normalized gear.

    PvP should be skill and not equipment based. If top tier equipment equates to facerolling enemies (not that anyone is saying that), all you would need is a time investment to get the gear and then nothing to really look foward to afterwards. Skill is a constant evolution because 99% of the population will never be "the best". But they can always get better.
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  11. kanochi

    kanochi Cupcake-About-Town

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    I agree, I think the point to pvp gear honestly should just be that you can show people what kind of skill level you are at/your merits and such, shouldn't give someone who's spent a year pvping a giant advantage over someone who just started pvping.
  12. F8L Fool

    F8L Fool Cupcake-About-Town

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    I totally disagree with this, to an extent. Carbine is giving players that want gear normalized an outlet for doing so in the form Batlegrounds. For everyone else that wants gear to matter they can play in Arenas and Warplots.

    When a new player is just as powerful as a veteran it puts a damper on progression and replayability. There is nothing to really strive for other than improving your win/loss ratio, personal rating and skill. For some that is enough, but for many more it will defeat the entire purpose of playing MMO's: a measurable and tangible sense of progression.
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  13. Red_Death01

    Red_Death01 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Hmmm if it is only in battlegrounds I could live with it... Since battlegrounds will be Tier 1 of PvP and shouldn't be murder on anyone entering it with transparency gear like solo or raiding. Though if they apply this to arena and Warplots I can sadly say PvP is dead. Take heart though! World pvp is very much alive and I don't think they're stupid enough to apply this effect to arena or warplots.
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  14. Woke

    Woke Cupcake

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    Why do people keep saying this statement? Please look up how the Elo system works. You can grind out as many Ranked Arena / WarPlots you want, but if you aren't good, you won't get into the top ranked brackets or have the rating needed and therefore you won't get the Best PvP Gear. This system is a hundred times better and gives you a better sense on the best PvPers.

    Being able to enter with your lvl 1 and compete with a lvl 50 or having a fresh 50 and basically be the same as every other lvl 50 is <REDACTED>. Where is the incentive to even keep PvPing?
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  15. Red_Death01

    Red_Death01 Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'll admit this is entirely the reason why I stopped PvPing in GW2... it became pointless.... so- there any place to sign a petition to tell Carbine- "This is stupid, please remove it. Your PvP community asks this of you!" ....?
  16. NILVIO

    NILVIO Cupcake

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    I understood that this is only happening while you are leveling up with BGs. So you can actually lvlup without getting owned. Its like in Neverwinter, If you join BGs at lvl 10. You will get boosted to 19lvl so its more balance in lowerlvl brackets.

    But when you hit cap, your gear will be based on ELO rating. Which should make matches really balanced gear wise.
  17. Rhythmix

    Rhythmix New Cupcake

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    Basically, normalised gear allows anyone to play at any given time even if you have never touched BG's before. It allows everyone to be on an equal playing field in terms of gear and stats and allow for skill to take it's place.

    The PvP gear you'll acquire from doing structured PvP is mainly aimed at being used outside that for things like Open World PvP and Warplots and personally? I think that's an amazing idea. It'll stop you thinking "Oh god.. I have to spam BG's and get dominated by higher geared people and just grind losses to make a bit of pvp currency" and instead your mindset will be "I'll do BG's where everyone is the same and I have an equal chance of winning however I'll probably get stomped by ACTUAL PvPers who know what they're doing." I'd rather the latter as I don't mind losing to people who are better and have shown that by being more committed than me.

    There is a big HOWEVER, however (excuse that) and that is, if you don't stick with the SPvP and someone else does, I can promise you that if you then went back and tried to play after say a 2 week gap, you WILL be able to tell who the better player is even if you have the same gear as them.

    Just my 2 pennies'
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  18. Backpedaling

    Backpedaling New Cupcake

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    this issue with gear got in pve being used for pvp never was a issue in vanilla wow and plenty of people still did bg's. In my opinion there should be a way to balance pvp and pve gear to be both usefull. remove pvp power / resillence and let pvp gear i dunno grant you some unique set bonuses like a cc breaker/buff to the cc armour stuff like that maybe grant more hp etc. and let raiding gear give you move damage and offensive buffs (for dpses) then if you wanna pvp you can combine both sets to give you some defense u need in pvp and some extra damage which the pve parts will provide. let the players decide how they wanna gear them selfs give us some customization. instead of having 1 end game pvp set that is set in stone for the class u play and u can barely influence.
  19. F8L Fool

    F8L Fool Cupcake-About-Town

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    I don't know what version of World of Warcraft you played, but in the one I played PvE gear absolutely destroyed people in PvP. In fact, every single good trinket, weapon and accessory for PvP was a PvE item. Ashkandi? Hand of Rag? Thunderfury? 100% of the weapons/rings found in Naxx?

    Vanilla and TBC are precisely the reason why you shouldn't let the best PvP items be obtained in PvE. It just ruins balance and infuriates people.

    They have already said that PvP Offense/Defense will be unique stats for PvP gear. There is also a mechanic that lets you manually break out of CC's so having a stat on your gear for it would be redundant.

    This would be like giving the best gear for tanking raid bosses to the highest rated PvPers. Effectively forcing an entire segment of people (raiders) to participate in a system that has nothing to do with raiding (PvP), for the sake of being the best raiders. I can give about 10000000 other analogies for why this would hurt the game, but at the end of the day it is the worst possible thing you can do to PvP balance in the game. Aside from making one or two classes be exponentially better than the rest.
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  20. Witless

    Witless "That" Cupcake

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    I agree with the OP whole heartedly.

    If you put forth the effort to get the gear, and in this case the strength, then that advantage should never be taken away. This goes for whether I start out with everyone else or come in late to the game.

    But, OP, I also like to fight people and to many whiners will not play because they are getting spanked. So it is something we have to deal with or have queues that take forever.

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