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PvP - Does it currently work for you?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Dyraele, Aug 30, 2011.

  1. Dyraele

    Dyraele "That" Cupcake

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    In the games I have played or want to play, why have they changed the PvP to be basically CTF or resource control with no real game world meaning?

    I liked it better when the PvP was open world and you could do what you wanted when you wanted. Why can't they keep it like that with real meaning? For example:

    1) Why not have towns that produce certain goods that can only be obtained from that town? Then, if you take over the town you can buy those goods from that town.
    2) Have areas in towns/cities that you own that have resources unique to the world but both sides need.
    3) Have special abilities/skills you can learn/master if you own a certain town for a certain period of time.

    Those are just some examples. I like that SWTOR has dedicated a world to open world PvP but I am not sure of the details yet. That may be a step in the right direction for me.

    Don't get me wrong, some of the instanced PvP is ok for a short while but becomes real boring to me in a short time. I would like the danger to always be there causing me to have to look over my shoulder all the time, and I would like a reason to be there.

    Any thoughts?
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  2. Brotoi

    Brotoi Cupcake-About-Town

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    I hate PvP. Period.

    Behind all the fancy graphics, storylines, and sound effects, these games are little more than multi-dimensional databases. PvP is nothing more than a numeric comparison between two database entries with a corresponding change in state for the smaller numeric total. For me there is nothing more annoying than to be working through a complex, multilayered quest only to keep getting sent back to the starting point by some player who thinks it's cool that his magic-do-everything-one-shot-player-kill-thingamajig can send other players back to their spawn point with a single keypress.

    I do not pay my monthly fee to improve someone else's ingame experience! I pay my fee to follow storyline quests to their conclusion until I run out of story. I spent five years in Lineage II and I will NEVER again pay money on an open-PvP game. Period.

    If someone wants to spend their days in constant stress let them join the Marines and request assignment to Iraq or Afghanistan.
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  3. Dyraele

    Dyraele "That" Cupcake

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    OK, so, then it doesn't work for you. :D

    However, nothing says you can't avoid those areas. They could be designed so that you do not need anything quest-wise so you could avoid them if you wanted to, thereby making the PvE experience just as enriching.
  4. aspira

    aspira Founding Member

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    I love open world PvP and I hope there is a ruleset server which promotes it in Wildstar as I only play MMO's for the Pvp.
  5. .selebu

    .selebu Cupcake

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    W* should definitely have PvE and PvP servers.
    Some ppl just love the thrill of being threatened not only by mobs but also by other factions, some don't.
    As Brotoi explained, being ganked when trying to do some quests is really annoying.
    PvP areas are not the best option, because Explorer (and maybe Scientist) paths still want to see every tidbit of the world. And some still don't want to be killed by some high lvl.

    Let the players play as they want to =P
  6. Dyraele

    Dyraele "That" Cupcake

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    Yes, can't argue with that and I agree. I don't want to force players into a situation they are not comfortable in though I do want to bring up some points. They have RvR in the game and they have 2 factions. Are the factions magically separated and preventing from interacting? Do we only get to wave at our hated enemies? Do we even get to see them? I am not sure about all the details but it would seem hard, even on a PvE server, to prevent the 2 factions from interacting, especially your character with the opposite faction NPCs. There are going to be conflicts.
  7. VooDoo

    VooDoo Cupcake-About-Town

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    It depends, I dont like most open world PvP unless I can choose if I want to PvP or not. Whether this is by flagging or by territory, I usually choose not to.

    The only games where I truly enjoyed PvP were usually in battlegrounds such as Warhammer Online and WoW battlegrounds. I preferred Warhammers because it wasnt really as gear dependent, and even if you lacked the gear it was very easy to obtain. I also really enjoyed castle seiges in lineage 2. Above all of them I felt Warhammers PvP was pretty close to perfect and was something I took part in each time I logged into the game. Their PvP zones were by far my favorite and I loved how they combined the open world with PvP without much seperation.

    One of the problems I have with open world pvp is that open world is for questing and resource gathering. Most of which are done alone and require a skill set and gear set neither of which are pvp orientated. Most of the pvp I experienced in open world was purely out of grief sake where you have a lone wolf max geared out in PvP gear looking for someone who wasnt equipped as well as them or under level and catch them off guard. Or worst case, small groups of people looking for under level quest runners to just mow down.

    I think where most games PvP fails on me is that they reward PvP players with ever growing teirs of PvP gear and allow them to compete with pretty much anybody. Its very non-competitive and very non-skill orientated.

    I believe in "bring the skill, not the gear". I also believe in always giving the player the option to be engaged by their own choice. I dont feel that most open world PvP games accomplish this well.

    Im all for open world PvP servers, in fact I think of them as filters..without getting into details ;) Howerver I prefer to keep questing and resource gathering completely seperate from PvP. As much as some PvP'rs want to think that resources should be contested by PvP, the games that do this well and is actually a focal point of the game are extremely limited. I can only think of one that does it properly, and thats Eve.
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  8. Dyraele

    Dyraele "That" Cupcake

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    I dislike the gankers/griefers too, and I don't know how to prevent that. However, what about what is currently planned? Won't the 2 factions force some type of PvP interaction, at least with the NPCs, when you are exploring?
  9. Dragor

    Dragor Cupcake

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    I never really was a PvP player in WoW, the only thing I was doing was, change to defense warrior gear and steal the flag in warsong :D In the short period of WAR, I wanted to play PvP but I was not amused at all. The Firemages were too powerful and the choppaz just mowed you down -.-
    Now I play Eve Online and I like small scale PvP, never was involved in large fleet actions though^^

    The thing I didn't like about PvP is, that you have to completly change the type of playing and to have a complete different gear.
  10. aspira

    aspira Founding Member

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    Different server groups. PvE ruleset where you have to flag yourself to be killable in open world or PvP ruleset where you are always gankable.

    That's how most other games do it and it works well as it keeps the gankers and the gank haters separate which is more fun for everyone.
  11. FerretParade

    FerretParade New Cupcake

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    It only worked for me in SWG....it was really fun attacking player towns. Some of those raids lasted over a day!
  12. starspun

    starspun Well-Known Cupcake

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    Someone choosing the Soldier or Settler path doesn't necessarily not want to see all they can of the world either, you know...

    Eh, that doesn't really solve the issue - it's not really something that can be solved. People can be into PvP and play on a PvP server but still dislike gankers/griefers - but if you choose to play on a PvP server, coming across these types of players is a risk you take and hopefully accept - why else would you roll on that server type?

    Personally I've never really been into PvP, but I've still played on various PvP servers for extended periods of time. When I get jumped by someone, I almost always die. When I get the jump on someone... I also almost always die. But the kick I get out of it is great. Despite the frustration that can come out of having my corpse sat on every once in a while, I have more good than bad memories about my PvP experience.

    I don't care much for battleground-type PvP, but I know there are people who enjoy it and it is a good option if you're really bored and are just looking to jump into something. Open-world, optional areas are something I enjoy a lot more - areas where no PvE quests are involved at all, so you only have to go there if you want to. Places like the Gurubashi arena, or the Hellfire Fortifications, or Halaa (examples from WoW, if you don't recognize the names) are all great examples of places as such. And for the fretting explorer type that needs to see everything, but isn't into PvP? Hopefully you're on a PvE server, where (as I recall) you weren't auto-flagged if you wandered these areas. Well, you did in the Gurubashi arena... but only if you wandered into the pit. And you could see the pit well enough from the stands, anyway.
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  13. souper

    souper Founding Member

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    Most MMOs as of late haven't really been doing much for PvP in my opinion. Yeah, many try to do something new here or there but nothings really hooked me personally. As a big PvP fan I really hope Carbine can deliver a great experience and bring the depth that they have been promising into the PvP system as well.

    I think the paths offer great opportunities to add extra layers to PvP and would love to see them utilized as much as possible. You could imagine explorers sabotaging enemy bases, settlers repairing ally bases, soldiers fending off/summoning waves of NPC enemies, or scientists... you know, scienceing... stuff. Many of the things the OP mentioned would be really exciting too.

    Personally, what I want more than anything are systems that encourage non-instanced, non-scheduled, 1 group vs. 1 group combat. Most MMOs don't know how (or don't bother) to accomplish this and only a few have gotten it right I think. I like battlegrounds... once in a while. Zerg vs. Zerg warfare... once in a while. A nice 1v1 gankfest... once in a while. But group vs group is truly where it is at as far as hitting the best balance between skill and fun.

    Counting on you Carbine!
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  14. Nonsensicles

    Nonsensicles Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm not much of a PvPer, but I would like to see open world PvP areas even in PvE servers. Frankly, it's just stupid how most two-faction games have so much content where players will fight through hordes of members of the opposite faction, but players of that faction can't jump in to help their side.

    The key is limiting it and making it very clear where these areas are. Put them in zones where both sides have content, and implement it as a sort of central battlefield between the sides. On PvP servers the conflict can spill out of there into all of the zone's content, but it's only there that you'll find a specific objective to fight over. Sort of a halfway point between Warhammer's ORvR areas in each zone pairing and WoW's scattered PvP objectives in various zones. Or WoW's scattered zone objectives and whole PvP zones like Wintergrasp and Tol Barad, if you like.

    I'd also like for that to be the primary PvP content, to keep people doing it. Instanced battlegrounds have the unfortunate tendency of being all anyone does if they're an option. That's a problem because they're anti-immersive and segregate the playerbase. The only things they offer players that open world objectives traditionally don't is superior design, a cap on players who can participate and a time limit. The first simple enough, given time spent designing BGs would be spent on this instead. The second could be controlled by phasing, if their tech allows. The third is something I dislike anyway, but it wouldn't be super hard to implement a timer which resets the battlefield and teleports players out once it runs out.
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  15. Mr.Mike

    Mr.Mike Original Founder

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    Everyone has made some great points and it's interesting to see both sides of PvP and PvE players points of view.

    At the end of the day, it all comes down to the individuals personal preference and play-style. No one is right or wrong. I say, each to their own.

    A question I have with the Paths is - will players who chose the Soldier path have a distinct advantage in PvP over the other Paths? So far we know Soldiers will receive better items etc to kill things easier, so I can't help but think they will have an advantage over the other non-combat Paths.
  16. Autumnal

    Autumnal Cupcake-About-Town

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    Unless an Explorer can make their way to an un-attainable place, and "rooftop camp". Kinda makes you wonder how it all balances out, huh? Balance is gonna be an Art Form, in WildStar.
  17. Mr.Mike

    Mr.Mike Original Founder

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    Unless the Paths system won't come into affect for PvP combat? Only time will tell..........
  18. souper

    souper Founding Member

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    If the paths don't come into play for PvP that will be a huge waste. There are plenty of ways of handling it without unbalancing the game and plenty of ways to create fun and rewarding content for each path. Its just such a fundamental feature that I hope to see it in every aspect of WildStar from PvE to crafting to PvP and beyond.
  19. Nonsensicles

    Nonsensicles Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm guessing the paths would play out as roles in PvP. Soldiers on the front line, Explorers infiltrating and scouting, Settlers maintaining the defence and Scientists handling tactical analysis.

    That might mean Soldiers just get better gear, or it might mean they can summon NPC reinforcements to assist in the push (with a variation on their beacon ability). Explorers can no doubt discover hidden paths and natural defences to exploit against their foes, but might they also have special skills to help them sneak behind enemy lines? Settlers setting up walls and turrets in home base and claimed objectives fits with what we know, and so does buffing up fellow defenders and maybe even setting up some sort of vending machine? Scientists are tricky, but researching the battlefield to give your team tactical bonuses seems right. They'll probably be found all over the battlefield, supporting where needed and looking for scraps of data while they're at it.

    This way every path is essential to success while giving each a distinct niche. A Settler role like this would be very cool for me, for example. I'm not fond of throwing myself into the thick of PvP combat, but I do like playing defense, trying to hold enemies at bay. Being able to do something practical to enhance my odds while waiting for the attack appeals to me; I always go for the turtle approach in strategy games, building up a mega-awesome base that can't lose. ;)
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  20. Akhrin

    Akhrin New Cupcake

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    Given that Carbine have said they want everyone to be able to play the game the way they enjoy it I expect we're likely to see a mix of areas, some of which are PvP and some of which aren't so that players can gravitate towards a zone that suits their style.

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