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PvP gear status?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Villain1117, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. Destrin

    Destrin Cupcake

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    I think there is one quote somewhere in a video that says there will be battleground modes where there will be no gear scaling. I do not believe they have confirmed what type of mode. I think it is safe to assume for now that it is ranked games.
  2. Bnol

    Bnol Cupcake-About-Town

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    For the most part I agree, but, even with rating and matchmaking there are issues with tiered PVP gear. First, there is the question whether the ranked queue within each PVP type (BG, Arena, Warplot) will cap the stats at the top level gear of that type or not. For example, will your Arena/Warplot gear be capped at the best BG gear stats when in a ranked BG, or will you to use your top level arena/warplot stats and have an advantage. The next, although less of a concern, is even if there is a cap, the speed of getting to the cap will be in favor of a Warplot player over a BG/Arena player. I think the Warplots will need this gear incentive to increase participation and allow them to fuction properly, even though I would personally want to have the caps in place so that a player can choose which PVP type to participate in.

    Matchmaking will certainly reduce the occurance of highly geared stomping lower geared, but, if the matchmaking is just based on rating within each PVP type, you can have the situation where a high ranked Warplot player in full gear, who did not participate much or at all in BGs, will be matched against new PVPers and will have a significant gear advantage.
  3. Ratstomper

    Ratstomper Cupcake

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    Well, it's good that you're being tactful at least.

    I feel like people who want a different set of armor for each individual aspect of endgame are, well, stupid. If they just HAVE to be separate, why not a customization system for your existing armor instead of a walk-in closet full of outfits? I want to play the game, not play barbie dress up.
  4. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    More gear means more goals. That alone is merit enough to include it into MMORPGs. Then when you consider balance, and different play styles, it is a no brainer.
  5. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    I never said I wanted all kind of different sets, it was just funny that you already had problems with 4 when it isn't really that much :D

    I'm a ferm believer of PvP/PvE gear though, for reasons I and many more have posted on different threads already. The better option is to just have PvE and PvP sepperate. OFcourse not everyone always likes it...bad luck for you then I guess.

    But I agree that in WoW it was a bit ''too much''.....After all I was also a collecter, achievment hunter, crafter etc. etc. etc. and with 7 gear sets my bags were pretty full :cautious:

    But I CAN SEE IT HAPPEN again in WildStar though......depending on how they changed the milestone system. But with the old system I can see it happening, cause mayby sometimes you prefer to be a moxie dps and sometimes a burtality dps...and then you have your tank/healing specc aswell....aswell as the difference of PvP and PvE.
    That can make a lot of different gear sets already.

    Are you ready to have 7 set of gear? Atleast i'm ''accostumed'' to it :coffee:
  6. Ratstomper

    Ratstomper Cupcake

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    I would even be more willing for multiple sets if maybe we had a separate equipment manager. Yes, 4 sets is too much for me. 7 would give me an aneurysm. I liked gear in vanilla wow; where the work I put in to PvP can translate over to PvE. The day I got my grand marshalls claymore was the best day of my WoW life.


    I'm ok with more gear sets, so long as they don't lock people down into having to have a certain set to do something. I would like to have some different sets of visually unique armor at max level instead of having everyone stand around in the exact same armor. However, those sets of armor shouldn't be exclusive to all but one purpose. The endgame activities are all already different aspects of the game, what's the purpose of slapping gear restrictions on it? As I said, I would rather see them put effort into making multiple sets of comparable armor instead of 2 or three optimal sets. That's boring.
  7. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    You know about the scaling of PvP gear in PvE and vice versa? In WS that is?
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  8. Ratstomper

    Ratstomper Cupcake

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    My point is that they should be on the same scale instead of some tenuous balancing act. Why should a gun that's super effective against one target be useless against another target that really isn't all that different? Same with armor. Why the dichotomy? I feel like it's only for the sake of achieving the best gear for doing something, which is fine until it turns into an issue of "You can't participate in this aspect of the game because you don't have X set of armor." That sense of achievement could be attained with visuals without splitting up the endgame content.

    I want to be able to have my personally customized armor for my build in PvP and go straight to a raid without having to change the pieces of gear itself. Having 7 (ugh) sets of gear is redundant and not a good way to go about things.
  9. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Yes we know your point....but that's not what I asked.

    The point of yours...we already discussed it so many times....it's just better the way it is now. It adds more to have it sepperate, and again not everyone may like it....all I can say = bad luck or deal with it! ;)

    I think Carbine comes with a good solution, making it viable but not as strong as the other content. Maintaining maximum enjoyment from both the PvP as the PvE side of the game (Yes they will never get the solution on which everyone agrees, but they got the best possible).
  10. Ratstomper

    Ratstomper Cupcake

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    Ok, what are these amazing reasons that it's so much better? What does it add besides needless busywork and making endgame content types less accessible to each other? WoW PvP was fine before resilience came into the picture.
  11. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Go check those threads...i'm not in the mood to retype pages long on it :coffee: Search engine is your best friend!

    Are you saying Carbine makes a bad choice? Or do you like their choice? (to some extend)
  12. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    Hmmm. This thread should be dead but it just won't die!

    Is this thread a cockroach or something?
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  13. Ratstomper

    Ratstomper Cupcake

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    I'm saying they're making a bad choice. I've yet to see a valid defense of the idea, search engine included. For all the standard MMO gameplay they're making more intuitive and interesting, this isn't one of them. Let players theorycraft with base stats without having to worry about some arbitrary PvP or raid stat that will stunt their ability to engage endgame content.
  14. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    can you tell me why you can't do this?

    If a 20man raid requires 5-man dungeon gear to be successful in downing the initial boss or bosses, then why can't your customized Pvp gear also be successful?

    Your Pvp gear - 10% effectiveness should still be better than 5 man dungeon gear, and most likely if you have several Pvp items, will be much better than 5 man dungeon gear, so you would start the raid with an advantage.
  15. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    Just an FYI, what you want personally may not be what's best for everyone else or for the game as a whole.

    I don't want to have to completely change sets of gear just to tackle different content, but I'll accept it if it makes my gaming experience more balanced and enjoyable. Helps to look at things from a broader, objective perspective.
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  16. Ratstomper

    Ratstomper Cupcake

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    And so I just build a wardrobe of armors that are arbitrarily better in this situation and not as good in that one? I suppose the issue I have isn't with the armor itself, it's with the specialized stats. It makes no sense to me why the issue of PvP vs PvE gear imbalance isn't solved in the values in code instead of making players collect multiple sets. Let's face it, we all want to optimize, but that optimization should be in the customization of base stats regarding specific builds, not in the cookie cutter suit for raiding that EVERYONE will wear because it's the best. The same goes for solo and PvP gear sets.

    If softies don't want to get one-shotted in PvP, then they need to flesh out some defense values on their equipment and the game should allow for this. Let the players decide and fill in their own gaps and use the time and resources to make varied, but interchangeable, sets of gear. That way no endgame aspect has a leg up over another and people can engage more endgame content with less artificial barriers, which is what the devs should want anyway. There are other ways to incentivize players than specialized stat equipment.

    Fair enough, but I don't see any reasoning, even in the old threads where this horse has, allegedly, been beaten to death. The only reason people seem to give is "It's better, because we need PvP equipment. We need PvP equipment because it's better."
  17. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    I'm no expert on the core mechanics, not being a developer 'n all, but I believe the reasoning is two-fold.

    One is that it is a lot of work to balance a new tier of PvE gear and content and the power of every player therefore will bleed over into PvP. PvP gear with PvP stats that pertain to player abilities help to mitigate the power that PvE gear has in PvP so that what developers do to the PvE game doesn't adversely affect the PvP game as badly.

    Another is that by blending the gear between multiple content paths, strict PvP and PvE players will inevitably be forced to enter the other content path that they don't like in order to earn BiS gear for their ideal content path. The philosophy here is that the best gear for said content path should be earned within the corresponding content path. It hurts the enjoyability of the game to do otherwise.

    There are pros and cons to all design decisions, and while this forces those of us who like both types of content to grind out more gear, it allows separate content paths to progress without too much crossover interference from the other side.
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  18. Ratstomper

    Ratstomper Cupcake

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    Ok, first point, and I'll admit this may be the deal breaker; why does PvE gear have to be more powerful than PvP gear or vice versa? Surely there can be some comparable goals between the two so both sets of gear are equally powerful, statistically identical if they have to be, without having one progress faster than another. That way, you don't have the issue of one gear set stomping out another if someone were to want to explore other aspects of endgame and players can customize on those base gear stats as they see fit. Let's remember that, at the end of the day, this is all values in code that can be tweaked as needed.

    Second point; same as the first. Have the gear be equal that you get from any one path. Have them be visually different and if you want overall progression, release new tiers together. Give the players the base values and let the customization system do it's thing. If LoL taught me anything, it's that MOBA communities are the worst, but also that you don't HAVE to have statistically more powerful stuff to incentivize players.

    The standpoint I'm coming from is in WoW, where I did a lot of PvP, but it didn't translate to PvE, so I missed out on a lot of that content, because it was off-limits to me. All the time I spent grinding out honor for my sweet looking armor and weapons still meant that I was hampered, if not outright barred, from experiencing more content unless I wanted to spend the time to farm multiple sets of gear to switch between for various roles (spoiler: I didn't and wound up quitting WoW). It sounds like the majority of people don't like the idea of specialized stats and armor, even those who are defending it. It seems like a necessary evil that could easily become unnecessary with some planning and value tweaking.
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  19. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    There WILL be crossover viability with gear from different content paths in WildStar, but the best gear in said content path will still require you to participate in the content path itself.

    In WoW were there a few key items in PvE that were too good to pass up from PvPers. Some of these for example were trinkets, weapons/legendary procs, and tier bonuses that overcompensated for the loss of resilience that would result. In more recent times this became the most prevalent issue. In vanilla WoW, the opposite was true to a much greater extreme where PvPers had to PvE extensively to have the best gear in the game, period.

    Your solution would only make players choose the path of least resistance to gear up faster, which most likely means PvEers will PvP nonstop to grind out the pieces that aren't dropping in raids since PvP gear will be exactly the same, especially when homogenized to the extent that you imply. Many PvEers want their best gear to come from raiding, not PvP. Less gear variety in game as a result of homogenization would also destroy the excitement of finding that perfect gear piece drop by making gear too similar and thus too common. It harms the game.


    I know how you feel regarding your WoW issues. I had similar troubles, except getting into PvP was difficult because I had to grind all of the gear to be at least somewhat competitive while also prioritizing raiding and raid preparation each week.

    However, WildStar is to have separate gear types more viable in other content paths, but they still won't be as good as the gear you'll get from the content path itself.
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  20. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    First i was going to make a post about why it is bad and why the proposed system due to current examples out there and not fictional doom scenarios are good.

    Than i realized i did it one too many times so this is a pointless as the developers already know what they are doing so a few people with selective reading issues believing their thing to be better can keep on believing it.


    I'll just finish with, each challenge should have their own reward. Making that reward obtained elsewhere makes that challenge void as it can be skipped. A challenge cannot be perfectly measured and recreated in another part of the meta game that's why.

    So it cannot be tweaked away as it's not about numbers but about maintaining a solid line so each type of meta game has their own reward structure for their own challenges.


    Those who can't understand this will never understand this, luckily those who demanded such systems in the past have gotten it and those who created mmo's have learned from the system changes in the past knowing the outcome so it will never return in a solid mmo due to all the issues it created.

    Saying that you can't find good reasons, simply translate into that you're a selective reader and anything you don't agree with personally you find a bad example so trying to convince such a person is pointless as one would be more successful teaching a monkey quantum physics and arguably it will be more enjoyable to do so.
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