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Raiding - did they lie?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Cananh, Mar 12, 2014.

  1. Cananh

    Cananh Cupcake

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    In video interviews they gave reassurances that the 40 man raids wouldn't be like other games. They acknowledged that very few players actually enjoyed them, referring to them as one-percenters, and said they were merely providing gameplay options for as many types of player as possible.

    Sounded perfectly reasonable and impossible to object to.

    Then I read this IGN article this morning and if it's true they're doing exactly what nearly every MMO does and putting the very best gear in 40 peep raids. If we want to keep progressing our characters then us niney-nine percenters can't ignore them.

    http://ign.com/articles/2014/03/12/wildstaras-end-game-is-built-to-last

    If this is true then they lied. By setting up a scheme where you have to progress through each type of content before moving onto the next it means that no type of content is optional.

    Yesterday I was sure I'd buy this game. Now I'm not.
  2. Blue Tunic Man

    Blue Tunic Man Cupcake-About-Town

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    Just making sure I read this properly. You weren't expecting the best gear to be on the 40 man raids and you think you have to be constantly chasing gear in order to get this some sort of self-satisfaction even though you have no intention on raiding the hardest content out there?

    They basically have content laid out before you. Don't have time for 40/20 man raids? Cool, there's other means but you won't get rewarded the best gear unless you're willing to throw down a lot of time and grow a neckbeard. Sounds to me that they are keeping their promise and are opening up a lot of avenues for all the sort of play

    It is optional, you're just unhappy that the best carrot isn't close enough for you and that is what you need for these hardcore 1%ers to do it, some very hardcore carrots that they have to chase after.
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  3. Hob

    Hob Cupcake

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    Pretty sure they've always been clear that 40 mans will provide the best gear.
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  4. filanwizard

    filanwizard Cupcake-About-Town

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    As far as I know they have always said that wildstar will not be a free loot dispenser and that the best gear will take the best raiding ability.
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  5. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    It has always been said that 40 mans give the best gear if you heard it elsewhere different you were misinformed or simply read that wrong, the developer in charge of itemisation literally stated the progression curve and 20 man gear being epic, while 40 man gear being 'legendary' artificat or w/e they call it.

    And that was long before any raid testing was available or level 50 even.

    What they meant with that was you can raid 40 man but you don't have to raid, 20 mans were always and ever a stepping stone to 40's.

    Look up J-tals posts on this forum to receive further confirmation.

    tl;dr, they didn't lie you just read what you wanted to believe how it would be.
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  6. Cananh

    Cananh Cupcake

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    Sadly I'd never read that.

    No I didn't misread anything. It was said clear as day in a video interview showing Dominion Draken gameplay that I watched on Youtube, when the interviewer raised this specific concern. The developer didn't explicitly go into gear rewards but they did explicitly say that the 40 peep raids were merely providing a gameplay option for the one percenters.

    So that particular developer in that particular interview lied.

    I wish I'd looked into this more deeply sooner cos this is a MAJOR turn off for me.
  7. Bnol

    Bnol Cupcake-About-Town

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    They have maintained the same stance throughout. Raiding is not for everyone, it is for a smaller subset of players. Thus, you need to create content for non-raiders, instead of just lowering the difficulty/access on raids so non-raiders can do them. Yes, raiders will have to progress through everything to get to raiding, which slows down their consumption of the raid content and enforces a level of commitment and community building necessary to be a successful raiding group. They have never said that everyone would be able to get everything, and that all content would be for everyone.
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  8. Cananh

    Cananh Cupcake

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    That's just nonsense.

    Gear is a form of progression which effectively replaces levels.

    Imagine if they said the level cap is 50 but you can't get past level 40 without doing 40 peep raids. Would you consider 40 peep raids "optional" then? Cos that's effectively what we have.

    Fair enough if you like 40 peep raids. But that doesn't you better people or players. It doesn't make the people who don't enjoy them lazy, stupid or whatever. There are plenty of reasons not to enjoy them.
  9. Hob

    Hob Cupcake

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    So how exactly did the developer lie if they didn't go into gear rewards? You read too much into what he said. No one lied.

    From 2012, directly on the official site: http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/uplink_analysis_raid_sizes.php

  10. Katu_Kath

    Katu_Kath Robot Cupcake

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    you all should read this.
    http://www.wildstarfans.net/2013/10/dev-explains-wildstars-three-gear.html

    There is one big thing that a lot of people are missing from this thread, and that is the fact that there are going to be 3 different types of end game gear. If you want the best RAIDING gear, yes, you will need to do the 40 man raids. If you want the best SOLO/SMALL GROUP gear, thats an entirely different treadmill. There will be some overlap, but the gear you get from 40 man raids will not be the best gear in the game, it WILL be the best raid gear in the game though.

    Last I remember they said something along the lines of gear being about 70% as effective across the treadmills. Meaning someone decked out in the best raid gear will be about 70% as effective as someone in the best solo/small group gear.
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  11. Cananh

    Cananh Cupcake

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    Already explained perfectly clearly.

    Content is not optional if it is the only way to get the best gear.

    Bless you :)

    If true this means that the IGN article is not completely accurate and there may be a small ray of hope. I'll do some digging and see what else I can find on this score before giving up on Wildstar.
  12. Celebrochan

    Celebrochan Cupcake

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    The question this raises in my mind is, does the small group gear have higher base stats than the pvp and Raid gear? or is it just worse in every possible way?

    If it is worse in every possible way to the other two paths, then it isn't a viable progression path.
  13. Katu_Kath

    Katu_Kath Robot Cupcake

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    According to the article, yes. solo/small group gear will have better base stats, less "to hit" stats, and less "crit mitigation" stats (both which are required for raiding but are much less effective in solo/small group settings). This way it doesnt prevent you from trying other styles of play in your best gear, but doesnt end up like SWTOR did with everyone doing PvP because the gear was equal in strength and easier to get.
  14. Kalmander

    Kalmander Well-Known Cupcake

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    Dude, it really is optional. If you do not want to do raids, don't do them. I did not raid back in vanilla WoW, or any other expansion, and still had fun.

    Top gear != fun gaming

    Why do people keep thinking that you need to have the BiS gear in order to have fun? I'm no raider, and I have no problem with the best raid gear being handed out in raids. I'm no top end PVPer, and I have no problem with the best PVP gear being handed out in warzones. My game is no less fun just because the dude standing next to me has better gear than me.
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  15. Drokk

    Drokk Cupcake-About-Town

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    And so the entitlement threads begin.
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  16. Celebrochan

    Celebrochan Cupcake

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    It can be depending on the person. Personally as an achiever, I like gear progression (as it replaces level progression at level cap) but who has time to raid or the patience for pvp. Small groups is where it is at (for me) and I like making progress (which getting slightly better loot gives me a convincing illusion of).

    Your statement is essentially saying to stop having bad fun, or wrong fun and to enjoy what you enjoy. http://xkcd.com/1314/
  17. Kalmander

    Kalmander Well-Known Cupcake

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    And there is progression even there... I mean, do you think you get the best set of dungeon gear on your 1st run through the dungeons? Will you run the heroic dungeons once, and have all the best available dungeon gear?

    It will take lots of runs, just like it takes lots of runs to get a raid set. It's the same thing. There will be progression. It would be great if they can also add something like the tier 0.5 dungeon gear in WoW that was hard to acquire. It was still not better than raid gear, but it was good, and not many people had it.

    Getting the perfect set (whether is dungeon, or raid) will take time. However, you cannot expect to get the best dungeon set if you do not run dungeons, or the best raid set if you do not raid, or the best PVP set if you do not PVP. That is not something we can ask for.
  18. Celebrochan

    Celebrochan Cupcake

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    I never said I should get everything at once, and is a non sequitur to what I was talking about. I just want the Item Level of each kind of gear to have the same cap so that I have the potential rise in what I do just as high as someone can rise with the same investment of time but with different interests.
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  19. Greatheart

    Greatheart Cupcake

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    Keep raids hard, keep the best gear gated. Epic gear isn't epic if everyone has it. WoW dumbed down the game to the point where a pug consisting of people who can't even talk the same language can complete the "hardest" difficulty content.

    Instead of the treadmill taking you to a place where you are at the pinnacle of gamers and people look at your gear in awe, you're just dumped square in the middle of a busy Asda looking as common as every other faceroller...

    I'm glad that Carbine have split the gear into three categories with a difficult progression for each!
    Slinky likes this.
  20. Drokk

    Drokk Cupcake-About-Town

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    What does item level have to do with anything? Do you need superior raid-level gear if you're not going to do raids? No, you don't. You could take raids (and raid gear) right out of the game and it would have absolutely no impact on you or your progression.
    Outlaw, Falkirk, Bnol and 1 other person like this.

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