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Raiding - did they lie?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Cananh, Mar 12, 2014.

  1. JackyVee

    JackyVee Cupcake

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    But it has been clarified for you in a multitude of ways several times.

    I have to ask once again, why is this thread still going?
  2. gabers1

    gabers1 Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think it depends on the situation Celebrochan.

    I think most of us that are interested in this game have been on the developer's website, watched dev speak and other videos, and have watched a few streams to know what this game is about. If not, that option still exists for everyone.

    If I came to this forum enjoying my beta experience in game and had already made up my mind to purchase but was suddenly concerned after reading an article on a third party website that perhaps I would not be able to have long-term enjoyment or any type of end game content in my chosen path (pvp or veteran adventures/dungeons) without having to acquire raiding gear, I would probably trust the answers and links given that point out that each progression route will have gear tailored to that route. If I had further doubts to the reliability of the posts from this forum, I would revisit the developers website. Well....., unless I already had my mind made up to not trust anything on a 'forum' in which case it would just be silly for me to post a question to begin with.

    There are numerous websites (including the developers) discussing long-term content as well as feedback from beta testers at level 50 that have been doing the adventures, raids, ect. While the definition of 'end-game' content might differ from one person to the next, it is quite evident that with the varying adventure scenarios and option of advancing to 'veteran adventures' this could be considered end game content for the small group pve players that make the decision (yes, same game mechanics exist for all) not to raid.

    Now, if I came to this forum enjoying the game with no desire to raid but my primary intent/focus was to not purchase the game based only on the idea of someone that was raiding possibly having better gear than me then I likely would not want to rely on what is posted here as no member is able to say with any certainty that some of the raid gear with the specific raid stats might not have better base stats than blue gear.

    I guess the answer to your question will all depend on the intent and purpose of the poster's thread/post and the questions they ask Celebrochan.

    If it were up to me, I would gladly give a wave and adios to all of the latter as in my mind, this entitlement group preoccupied about what others may have or achieve is exactly why games go foul. But hey, just my opinion which of course I am allowed to express when replying on a public forum.:up:
  3. Hermes

    Hermes Cupcake

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    I would like to conclude my participation in this thread by going back to the the question "did they lie?".

    They probably didn't lie on purpose but they seem to have labeled more casual PvE-progression within the same tiered PvE as a "solo/small group" progression path. Since all raiders will already have done all of that content, it is not a third progression path. In reality there are only two paths, PvE and PvP. It is looking very traditional and a bit stilted in the spirit of WoW with a raiding guild hegemony and supposedly will give disillusioned WoW-raiders something to aspire to.

    So no, they didn't lie but they used the misleading term "progression path" to describe limited progression PvE which is in fact just a prerequisite to raiding.
    Cananh likes this.
  4. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

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    But they've stated many times that continued content releases will include progression of the Solo/small group path! You'll get quests, and small instances to do as a solo/small group player that will give you the gear you need to continue doing that content!
    Outlaw, Hermes and azmundai like this.
  5. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    /crazypills
    that is so clearly not possible .. or .. something .. nope, im gonna stick with my first thought, crazypills. only rational explanation.

    but they get HIT RATING, GWARB DRARRN TWARTH!!!
    /crazypills

    if this isn't good enough for ppl, then by all means, go play TESO or something. There's probably nothing for you at endgame their either, but at least you won't have to see ppl with +10 hit.

    /me runs from Chua with +1 Rusted Pistol of the Gerbil.
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  6. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Go feel bad Herpie! You made our dear Kataryna repeat herself for the 11th time.
    [​IMG]


    Ps: you are Exile, right? (this was the only reason to make this post, just to ask you. But I can't let the oppotunity slip to annoy you)
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  7. RavenWind

    RavenWind Well-Known Cupcake

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    What Kat said PLUS.....remember folks the Solo/PVE isn't over at max level....its just beginning...Elder Game. You will continue to get improved solo/PvE gear thru this. Can you use this gear in Raids? Yes. Will it be as good as the top Raid Gear? No. Can you use Raid gear to Solo/PvE?. Yes. Will it be as good as the top Solo/PvE gear? No. Here is graphic created to help depict what Elder Game will focus on for each area of the game...

    [​IMG]
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  8. gabers1

    gabers1 Cupcake-About-Town

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    If I am not mistaken, I think Hermes feels that because small group pve (dungeon and adventures) is similar to large group pve (raids) that some people believe they are not really two completely separate progression paths as both are pve and involve similar mechanics with raids just being on a much larger scale.

    Although many will separate the two, the fact that the end-game content for small group (veteran adventures) will produce gear that will enable players to then branch out into the raid progression path will have some players feeling the two are one long progression path and therefore they feel pressure to continue into raiding as the small group progression does not have a feel for true end-game content for them.

    Although I see these as two different viable progression paths with the potential to join the two if someone chooses, technically those that want to argue that they are 'related' have some room to do so given the fact that Wildstar allows the natural progression from one path to another.

    With that said, technically we could link any path with another as even some of the nice dungeon gear with high stats may be better than some of the lower level pvp vendor gear offering a small amount of pvp offense or defense.

    I think that perhaps it is our mindset that creates the biggest obstacles.

    An analogy might be the glass half full half empty- not from the standpoint of a negative or positive view but simply from two different people seeing two different things with the same item.

    There will be those that have absolutely no desire to raid that will see the constantly changing veteran mode adventures as end game for their progression path.

    There will be those that have absolutely no desire to raid that will view the raids as endgame content and will be frustrated/angry/disappointed with the fact that raiding exists.

    If we simply change our mindset to focus on issues that directly impact our personal gaming ‘style’ and not worry about any player or their style or the gear or items they earn, I think the game will be much more enjoyable for everyone playing.

    Hermes likes this.
  9. Hermes

    Hermes Cupcake

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    I apologize to Kataryna. That graphic was helpful RavenWind.

    And to Extatica, yes I'm Exile. With my own agenda. I am the most moody, obsessive and, I know you will like this, ****** Aurin Esper Scientist on Nexus. :D
  10. Outlaw

    Outlaw Cupcake-About-Town

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    I like you, guy. I was thinking it, then you said it. Awesome.

    In summary = Focus on what you like to do, and don't worry about what you don't? I have to agree with this.
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  11. gabers1

    gabers1 Cupcake-About-Town

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    :sneaky:

    edit: removed content
  12. Outlaw

    Outlaw Cupcake-About-Town

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    TL;DR isn't for me. I read almost every post in every thread that catches my eye. It's for the people who actually wouldn't take the time to read your...very in-depth response. I assume that anyone who has any experience with forums already knows this. Obviously, I was wrong, and I apologize for assuming you would know how things usually work on forums.

    If it makes you feel better, I edited my post to say "in summary" so you'd understand what I meant.
  13. gabers1

    gabers1 Cupcake-About-Town

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    The literal interpretation of TL;DR is 'too long didn't read' and I have seen it used primarily by people replying to a post to indicate that they did not take the time to read the entire post. Actually, I believe that many of these people do read but use this more as a 'slam' toward the poster. If this was not your intent, I apologize.

    Thank you for editing your post but this will go more toward others 'understanding' as you have just explained your intent to me so I now have a clear understanding of your intent.

    I have no issue with anyone skipping over or avoiding any of my posts as I know that they can get lengthy. However, as you can tell, I do take issue with someone suggesting they have not read my post that then insist on replying. As you have indicated that this was not the case, I too will amend my previous reply.
  14. CRB_J-Tal

    CRB_J-Tal Carbine Studios

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    [​IMG]

    Game development is about iteration, adaptation, prototyping, designing, redesigning and continually improving. That means things change. Constantly. I literally just did a revamp of Runecrafting and PvP gear, in this month alone. If your expectation is that things will never change, especially in a pre-launch development environment, you will almost always be disappointed.

    That said, we've always had the stance that the most difficult content will have the best rewards, and that's still true today. And will continue to be true for the foreseeable future. The gear from Datascape and Warplots is ... pretty amazing. We've also always said that we'll continue to look out for the little guy who doesn't Raid and isn't into competitive PvP. That doesn't necessarily mean that you'll be getting Datascape-quality Legendary items from doing solo quests, but there will be ways for you to acquire some pretty good rewards (imbuements is one of them; think of getting an item out of a dungeon and then doing a series of difficult quests to power it up to a raid epic - that's imbuements!). And, of course, we already have plans to add more down the line. We are an MMO after all. Gotta earn that sub money.

    If you don't think we've communicated this clearly before, then I apologize for that.
    azmundai, SoaperStool, Hob and 12 others like this.
  15. Drokk

    Drokk Cupcake-About-Town

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    Don't you people sleep? But seriously, that's reassuring news. As someone who's not going to be a hardcore raider, and probably not extensively involved in Warplots (something of which we still know so little), I really just want 'stuff to do'. Needing the best gear is not of paramount importance, and I agree the hardest content should yield the best rewards. But some form of progression is necessary in all avenues of gameplay, and it's good to hear (yet again) that that progression will exist for all types of players.
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  16. Arawulf

    Arawulf Owner of WildStarFans.net

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    With all due respect, where in my article did I report that each gear type has equal power? What I reported is J-Tal's post stating that there would be specific stats on gear favoring the type of content the player wants to play. My take is that his post was more about the stat distribution, not the stat budget.

    J-tal in no way ever promised that Solo gear would be equal power to PvP or Raid gear but only indicated that the stat distribution would be conducive to each content type. Moreover, the consistent message from Carbine all along is that the more challenging the content, the better the rewards (i.e., higher stat budget within an item) However, this should be perfectly acceptable for all parties considered - allow me to try to make a case here:

    For a player that isn't interested in Raiding, why on earth would they feel like they need gear powerful enough to raid? The content a player enjoys (solo, pvp, raids, or whatever) will provide them with ample opportunities to obtain gear with plenty of power to complete it.

    I would argue that the only players that need gear powerful enough to raid with are people that actually raid. Players that hate raiding will never be required to in order to enjoy the content they prefer.
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  17. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    GG Cananh. That post was amazing until you realized a dev posted not 3 posts before it.

    Responding without reading your own thread and claiming that none of us can convince you? Priceless.
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  18. Cananh

    Cananh Cupcake

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    • Edited for content
    @J-Tal

    Thank for taking the time to clarify this issue publicly.

    You know I made this exact same point myself repeatedly and have been repeatedly criticised for it throughout this thread by people who expected me to take developer statements at one point in time (yours in particular) as gospel and eternal truth.

    When I posted this question it was in response to statements made by a developer in a youtube video in response to the same concerns I had which it seems now were not true. Whether they lied, weren't fully aware or stuff changed, only you could say.

    So the IGN article is correct. Thank you.

    It's your game and obviously you're free to do with it as you please. But the fact you think I'm "the little guy" or potentially less invested or "hard core" than others is very short-sighted. I've played three subscription MMOs for more than 2 years each, another for over a year, and only raided in one of those for about a month (which drove me to leave).

    I think Wildstar has a lot to recommend it but if you tell me - as you just have - that my long-term progression will be limited compared to other players because I don't enjoy the same end-game activities as them, then I don't see Wildstar as a viable long-term prospect, especially not with a subscription attached to it.

    No big deal. I'm just obviously not your target audience.
  19. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    LoL. So its really not about progression, its about not getting the same rewards as person x even though you refuse to do y? Even after forgetting how much item budget is useless in other parts of the game making that gear effectively the same? Is it really about perception and not reality?
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  20. Outlaw

    Outlaw Cupcake-About-Town

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    So, to be clear, Cananh. You only play games to get the best gear and then move on? You find raiding too tedious, so if the best gear is from raiding, then a game isn't for you? Like, no other positive aspect of the game matters if you can't get the absolute best gear without raiding? Or am I completely off the mark here?
    JackyVee and Kataryna like this.

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