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Raids looting system - Need vs Greed?! REALLY?! (Seperate loot on smaller mobs?)

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Exquise, May 25, 2013.

  1. Exquise

    Exquise New Cupcake

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    I'm as hyped as the next person about Wildstar, but is it really necessary to add this feature in to the game? It was part of the patch notes.

    We've seen from Guild Wars 2 that it's completely possible to have a separate looting system that isn't broken. With Need vs Greed a lot of arrogant players need items irrelevant to whether it's their spec or not.
    I don't know, I was never a WoW fan. It felt too clunky to me. I only know SW:TOR end game before it went free to play, and 1/2 of the instances I did included one player who could not help himself, needing every item.

    Maybe I'm wrong about this and it's already moved, since in a lot of the game play footage we do see people who get their own loot..

    It sort of links in to being rewarded for helping each other killing other mobs, since every mmo frequenter (I tend to spend more time out than on my computer unfortunately, but I am a massive mmo fan) knows that sometimes after waiting hours for one boss to spawn, if you happen to hit it before someone else then you better be prepared for a storm of flames because then only you get the quest completion and loot from it.

    I'm making a lot of comparisons to Guild Wars 2 unfortunately, but like that game or not there's so much that that game did correctly.

    This is a discussion on the need vs greed system not a debate about Guild Wars 2 however, so is there information regarding the removal of this out there that's slipped under my nose, and how rewarding is the game in terms of working together outside of a group on standard mobs? Does the first hit mean you get everything, or do we get seperate loot regardless?
  2. Purple Rose

    Purple Rose Cupcake-About-Town

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    Lets start by saying the there will always be ninja people!
    Now for Wildstar we are not(Hopefully)have LFR that means we are not going to face any Raid ninja looting.
    If you pug with people its at your own risk if i can say so same as you join a guild and the guild master decides to ninja Ashes of Alar and disband the guild.

    I have to say that always there will be people that will whine about everything.Same happens now with loot system on raids that WoW has.

    Need/Greed is the best system for me.If someone is ninja items its up to the community to be better....

    Now for Smaller mobs i like separate loot.If you take the mob first you win.Same with gathering.
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  3. Sawpaw

    Sawpaw Cupcake-About-Town

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    If everyone got loot from boss kills there would be far to much loot entering the world to quickly, and I would rather that when you do finally get a drop/win a roll that it be a rare/epic loot and not be some worthless greens like you get in GW2.

    And I also like the loot competition of need and greed rolling, it gives that that feeling of winning or losing something, the high or the low, which you do not get in GW2 as every loot is already yours, and probably the only high is when you get a charged lodestone or precursor drop.
  4. Isgu

    Isgu Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think the system GW2 had where everyone attacking a mob would get the xp/loot worked out pretty well since it promoted players to help each other (even if it was for selfish reasons). On the other hand in raids everyone getting some kind of item off every boss would be a bit much, don't you think? There I would prefer master looter/need/greed.
    So if I had to choose between them id always vote for need/greed, there's always going to be "ninjas" and we really cant do much about it than promote a fair gaming environment.
  5. Exquise

    Exquise New Cupcake

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    Haha, I see what you guys are saying. I suppose that my bad experience from playing SW:TOR has biased my opinion related to this as I'm used to getting my own loot from playing Guild Wars 1 especially.

    I will just assume it's going to be a better idea to simply play with real life friends (not that many of my friends play games in doors very much) rather than randoms. This way any ninjaing will just be trolling each other than simply being a jackass.
  6. crowsong

    crowsong Cupcake-About-Town

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    I really dislike the individual loot table, although unfairness exist with need/greed, the element makes looting 'fun'. In gw2 looting was probably the most meaningless thing ever, all of the good gear was crafted/dungeon token exchanged. i got 3 characters to 80 and not once ever did i receive loot that got me truly excited... in WoW i got my first exciting drop when i was level 18 clearing dead mines...
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  7. Gronky

    Gronky Cupcake-About-Town

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    There should be only greed system. People with big harts/friends can give found item to other people they like if they wish (drops should not be disclosed to anybody except the winner obviously).
    Many people play often boring roles (healers, please don't hate ;P), only so they can get invited to parties so they can loot some stuff for their alts which are more cooler to play with, or because they want to sell the drop and buy something they or their alt needs. Who's to tell who need is bigger. Only person in need can tell.
    On the other hand guilds and only guilds should have greater choice of options (like for example storing an epic item for democratic choice of who should have it). It's because guild is by definition something like organization. It should be an organization who win items, its employees just use them. So those items should be bound to the guild and not to the player, unless he gets permission of majority of members and pay guild for that item. Then it can become his private one and he can even leave the guild with it.
  8. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    GW2 has this because there's no such thing as PvE progression, it's all <REDACTED> and giggles there with faceroll content.

    In a game where you went people to progress you need to limit the amount of drops per boss, that's why this system is there.

    it's not because "omgz itz outdatezed! i liek GW2 systzem bettars!".

    Here's a wild idea, get a guild, get guild groups and you won't have strangers needing on stuff :eek:
    Also if the person can use the item it's not a ninja, there's no such thing as "ninjaing" an item in a need or greed system.
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  9. Exquise

    Exquise New Cupcake

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    I never said that. Re-read the OP and confirm that I said the Need/Greed system is outdated. I actually said that individual loot is a working system to why not use that? However after reading reply's I can see how the N/G system does work.


    I already stated I can understand from comments here the usefulness of a Need/ Greed system, but I still enjoy individual loot. Obviously dev's don't cater to the percentage who enjoy individual loot so regardless it hasn't put me off playing.


    This is also an valid idea, especially for random groups. Removing the Need option stops people needlessly taking look that may not be effective for them. Simply from my inexperience with N/G, what prevents a high-end item drop being ninja'd by someone who doesn't need it? I mean do items with that +1 stat that we've been farming days and days to get drop from boss' that have N/G or does it only drop from end chests?
  10. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    Comment was made to stress the point it serves a purpose here, by stating that GW2 has an individual loot system that isn't broken i read that as a need vs greed system being broken in your eyes.
  11. Exquise

    Exquise New Cupcake

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    Haha, I think we just had a misunderstanding :) Regardless, I appreciate what it is you're saying. I think from experience N/G is unappealing and depending how the End-game of Wildstar turns out (And let's face it, it's hard to compare to GW2 since GW2 has no endgame and no grind except for a legendary, and the grind for that makes it feel less like a game) will reflect on whether I start to appreciate N/G or not.
  12. Inimicus

    Inimicus Cupcake

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    I personally feel like in open world the GW2 system of anyone that contributes to killing it gets something for contributing i.e. XP and Gold. This just makes open world questing more interactive for all involved, sitting for 2 hours waiting for a rare spawn just to have someone show up last second and first hit it as it spawns is a pain. I like to meet new people in game through the random "holy <REDACTED>! thanks for saving my ass there" moments.

    For Raids, Loot master/Need/Greed as per WoW is the system i prefer for loot distribution, earn that DKP (or other such credit) and roll on the items you truly need to better THE TOON YOU ARE ON (caps coz hate the "my alt needs that" mentality, alts can have if and only if nobody else needs)

    As someone stated earlier though, regards to gathering nodes, i do somewhat like the competition surronding the gathering since this does put at least some limit on certain things flooding the market
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  13. Isgu

    Isgu Cupcake-About-Town

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    Best way of doing it imo, but not always possible for everyone I'm afraid :)

    People can still need an item if they already have the same item/equal quality/better quality, in that case I'd still call it ninjaing.

    This. Shame I don't see two different systems (one for open world and one for dungeons) happening.
  14. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    Why wouldn't you see two different systems?

    Warhammer AOR, had a contribution based system such as GW2 for their public quests (what events in gw2 evolved from) and Need and greed + other loot options on your regular drops.
  15. Psistorm

    Psistorm Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think the loot game is part of the experience. In raids, people will generally have a master looter, but in small group play this system can be quite a problem, yes. (worst example atm is Neverwinter, EVERY pug i ran with so far had at least 2-3 people who rolled need on literally everything, even the most useless stuff)

    Though I think the idea of having personal loot on trash is rather cool. That could be balanced to create a small influx of decent items, whilst boss drops are the more coveted ones that need to be rolled on. How to avoid ninja rolls? If the item is not for your class, you can't roll need for it, period.
  16. Homeslice

    Homeslice Cupcake

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    I am pretty certain that Neverwinter works this way as well if I recall correctly.

    I do think a loot role system ie no need just a roll, would be great and at the end of a dungeon people could trade the items if they wanted. Just don't have the items bind until the group is disbanded or leaves the dungeon.
  17. CriSPeH

    CriSPeH Cupcake-About-Town

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    GW2 loot problems for end-game came from their structure of all End-Gear being the same statwise so the only incentive to grind for different gear was for the aesthetics, this even went for the ultra grind Legendary Weapons which were only slightly better than similar weapons you could get in 10-15 mins.

    The personal loot system in GW2 in general was a very ingenious thing imo and it did an excellent job in promoting teamplay and helpfulness in players. I don't know how many times in WoW (similar MMO's) that ppl just watched me die to a mob, ran by as I was getting mob trained and after I died they just leave you there and move on or even snicker or /lol.
    In GW2 I can barely recall a single time this happened, more often ppl will go out of there way to come and help you, they would join in and kill your mob pulls so they could rez you, then u give the ole "tyvm" and they say "np."
    In WoW if you are dying to a mob tht you tapped first and other ppl want it they wont help you and in some cases of Rare mobs I had ppl actually mob train me so I would die and they could take the mob for themselves.
    I also remember every 15 mins in IF someone crying out in chat the "soinso is a loot ninja" whaahhh whaahh whaahh.

    I don't agree that it should be left up to the community to try and control troll players, these are games and games are supposed to be fun for everyone playing and having some Need/Greed loot system and telling everyone that if they get hard earned loot ganked its there own fault because they didn't just play with ppl they know doesn't sound very fun.

    I think a loot system similar to GW2 could be implemented without trivializing the loot tables.
    Really there is no reason why a game with as much scope as Wildstar couldn't have a hybrid of the systems for different situations.
  18. Isgu

    Isgu Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yea, Warhammer had a contribution based system for public quests, but as far as I remember outside of that it was just need/greed or who tags the mob gets the loot (unless my memory is just bad).
    My comment was aimed at the latter. I don't think they would use a GW2-like system for those and a need/greed system for dungeons. Don't get me wrong though, it still could happen. :)
  19. Jarinolde

    Jarinolde Cupcake-About-Town

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    The only monsters that should have shared loot are quest bosses, everything else should for the most part be tied to the person, party or raid that tags it first.
  20. Cottonspore

    Cottonspore Cupcake-About-Town

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    In the open world I want to WANT to be around other players. Having all credit and loot go to the first person who hits a mob does exactly the opposite. I find it funny that these boards get hung up on things like teleporting, flying mounts, cross-server LFG tools, and so on discouraging players from meeting and interacting with each other... then totally overlooks that forcing people to spread out and deliberately go out of their way to avoid other players kills interaction dead.

    I love that so far the open world seems to give you credit for wailing on the same monster as someone else. As for raids and group stuff, I'm fine with leaving that to need/greed or however else it goes. Isn't breaking your guild in half over gear drama a time-honored and well loved MMO tradition? I say that jokingly, but seriously with rare drops from dungeon/raid bosses it seems that many people enjoy the rush and anxiety of wondering who is going to end up with the gear now that the work is over. It's a completely different environment and type of social interaction from open world soloing.

    I've never met anyone who claimed to enjoy the experience of running towards a rare spawn (or a quest mob, or any mob) only to have a ranged class suddenly tag it first from behind them. I really see no point to first-come-first-serve mob tagging in the open world, aside from a sociopathic desire to deprive and frustrate other people, or else to artificially inflate the amount of time it takes to finish quests.
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