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Remove PVP gear!

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Mel, Sep 16, 2013.

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  1. Mel

    Mel Cupcake-About-Town

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    The thread title says it all.

    When World of Warcraft first released there was no difference between PVP gear and PVE gear. Players could gain gear from PVP and PVE content. But players at max level were more balanced toward each other. Once PVP gear was introduced the balance between the different play styles grew to such a imbalanced shift that playing on a PVP server became more of a hindrance. I understand that there is an option to play on a PVE server but I enjoy the excitement of leveling on the PVP servers more.

    Case in point. WoW released a new area in the 5.4 patch and the Horde imbalance on my server is almost 3 to 1. I almost feel like a "free kill" in the new area due to the fact that I am running around in 522 PVE gear. I spend most of my time running the PVE content with my guild but all my efforts seems mute due to the fact that I have zero PVP gear. Why even have PVE gear on a PVP server? Are we saying that playing PVE is useless on a PVP server? Should PVE gear always be second hand to PVP gear on a PVP server?


    Venting .....
  2. plic70

    plic70 Cupcake-About-Town

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    If you don't want to get ganked, don't play on a PVP server...
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  3. dizko

    dizko Cupcake-About-Town

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    No they were not. High-end raiders had a distinct advantage over those who were not raiders. You've convinced yourself of something that isn't true. A fully raid geared Rogue with Thunderfury pretty much two shotted cloth wearers, balanced my ass.

    This topic has been beaten to death. Players who are more PvP oriented don't want to have to raid to get the best gear for them, they should be able to get it from just PvP. Same goes for raiding, raiders should be able to get the best gear for them through raiding alone and not have to PvP to get it.
    Alverad, Afrotech, Feryo and 14 others like this.
  4. Mel

    Mel Cupcake-About-Town

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    I don't mind the ganking I dislike the imbalance between the PVP and PVE gear of equal level.
  5. Mel

    Mel Cupcake-About-Town

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    My point is that if gear is equal in respect to PVE and PVP then Max level players of equal gear levels are more balanced and skill of play is the determining factor.

    I agree that players should be rewarded with gear based on the play style they prefer to play. But if the same gear is given for high level raiders and high level PVPers then the balance is still there. Why do we need a PVP stat? All that does is create a larger imbalance in the world.

    If you and I spend 20 hours a week leveling the same class, you with PVP and I with PVE, at the end of the day why should you have a leg up if we meet up in a dark corner of the game?
  6. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    To the OP.

    You will never find consensus on this topic.

    Carbine has stated the best gear for raiding comes from raiding and, the best gear for PvP comes from PvP. It's a done deal.

    I am primarily a PvE'er so I feel your pain. Nothing to do but, avoid the issue by playing on a PvE server. If I choose to play on a PvP server I just have to deal.
    Baamz, Ianpact, Sera Serenity and 2 others like this.
  7. plic70

    plic70 Cupcake-About-Town

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    If you don't mind getting ganked, then your arguement is kind of lacking. Since you could still get ganked in PVE gear if someone gets the drop on you like any respectable ganker would.

    This arguement has been had multiple time on these forums. It comes down to two points, PVE-ers don't want to have a gap between them and PVP-ers when they go into BGs. Understandable, butthere still needs to be some form of progress with PVP. Since mmos are MMORPG, then there will always be some form of character progresion, gear, when it comes to end game.

    As Dizko said, PVP-ers don't want to have to raid to get the best gear. Since, that is what you are wanting, you are killing off PVP oriented end game. If you wanted something like that then there would need to be gear drops for winning BGs. We all know that would never happen because currently there is no cap on the amount of BGs you can run in a day.

    Having PVP/PVE gear allows for end game progression and helps differentiate the 2 forms of play.
    Afrotech, Livnthedream and dizko like this.
  8. Destrin

    Destrin Cupcake

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    For Years in EQ2 there was no such thing as PvP gear. The best of the best gear was from raiding. If you were not downing raid/contested bosses then you were out geared by the organized people waking up at 4:00 am to go kill an avatar when it spawned. No thanks.

    I think they should get rid of PvE gear completely... That makes more sense to me. I think that it would a great design decision to make all the PvE carebares be fodder for the people that want to PvP. It is the same argument. I do not actually think this is a good idea. Just to clarify.

    Let the players play the way they want to, getting gear for what will be best for their play style. And from what Carbine has said about the PvP vs. PvE gear dilemma is that if you have one person in full tier 3 PvP gear and one person in full tier 3 PvE there would be about a difference of 8%-16% in output if you are doing the opposite type of content that gear was designed for. Seems fair.
  9. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    We had this discussion before,...

    World PvP isn't fair, each time one claims that world PvP needs to be fair or balanced a bag of cute kittens gets dropped into a wild river.

    Congratulations you just killed 15 kittens would you like to go for 30?

    In your post you point out several issues why you get ganked, yet gear seems to be the most favorite black sheep of the family of reasons. Also there's a better place for tears about being ganked on PvP servers that doesn't do anything or make you lose anything, it's called battlenet.

    Blizzard even made it better for carebears and starter pvpers by baking in the basic resilience you used to get from having a PvP set, that's now a base stat value. So PvP gear improved your situation.

    Now don't let my logic and reason stand in the way of your rage.
    Alverad, Afrotech, Ianpact and 3 others like this.
  10. dizko

    dizko Cupcake-About-Town

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    If you remove PvP gear outright then you disincentivize PvP all together. This is why I never payed attention to the PvP in Guild Wars 2 because there was no rewards that were worthwhile in anyway. Since you're a (OP) self-proclaimed PvE'er who are you dictate what's best for PvP?

    Think of the flipside argument: I think we should remove PvE gear because it gives PvE'ers an unfair advantage in PvE. I should be able to get my PvP gear and be on par with raiders when I go into a raid. Seems ridiculous when it's framed like that eh?
    Makismo, Afrotech, Notturno and 2 others like this.
  11. Narrack

    Narrack Cupcake

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    PvP gear should exist because otherwise PvE players dominate.

    In vanilla wow which you use as an example PvP gear was itemized differently just instead of a *resilience* stat it just stacked stamina instead.

    I could go into detail about how this sucked for the PvP players as they didnt have the damage output (except war) of the raiders and by the time AQ 40 /Naxx came about we had less heath too.

    With PvP stats and gear its still badly itemised for PvE but now when a Equally geared PvE player is competing against you they are at the same disadvantage in PvP that a PvP player would be at if they were doing PvE content in thier PvP gear.

    TLDR: If you want to play with the big boys in PVE or PVE you have to do the appropriate content!
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  12. Deloim

    Deloim Cupcake

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    If the pvp babies must have their so called "balanced" gear for their matches, only enable pvp gear stats in instanced pvp. Its where it was made for anyway.

    And stat the pvp gear like its done in other games so that if you want the resilience you miss out on one stat slot. That way they can be useful pluging holes in pve gearing but not on par with raiding gear.
  13. Psistorm

    Psistorm Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well, first of all, lets not forget this game will most likely have 3 gear paths, with PvP, group/raid PvE, and solo/small group PvE. As someone said before, the best gear for a given content path comes from that same content path. So if you want to pvp, you are well off to use pvp gear. if you want to raid, get gear from dungeons/raids. if you want to solo, you should be fine with any gear type, but raid gear will no longer be a flat out power evolution from your solo gear. Instead it will be separate.

    That said, the ganking issue can be broken down into two issues. I'm not calling myself super qualified, but I consider myself to be fairly rational, so I've given this some thought.
    Gear: As far as gear goes, on a PvE server, your PvP gear is mostly about the arenas, warplots etc. You explicitly gear up for it for when you enter a PvP only environment. So how would you deal with the mixed environment on PvP realms, where you take on both mobs and fellow players? I think this is where wildstars mod system will really show its usefulness. Because people can craft themselves a set of armor that has a mix of stats, making it somewhat viable for both worlds. Arena PvP will still see pure PvP gear I'm sure, but for open world actions you can blend the stats.

    Level difference: This is probably ganking factor #1. The level 50, full pvp geared master kicking around lvl 10 or 20 guys with little impact, until someone calls other lvl 50s to help clear the threat. Which effectively - in my eyes - renders open world pvp nearly pointless unless you are capped. Sure, its probably not all that bad, but from what people reported, it can be pretty bad for some people. Now I feel that the whole idea of "s*** rolls downhill" thus "I get ganked when im a newbie, thus I get to gank when I'm at cap" is kind of silly. So why not have level-normalized stats when pvpers clash in the open world?
    So lets take that hypothetical lvl 50 versus lvl 10 match, where our guy at cap is rocking full arena pvp gear, and our noob might rock a hybrid set perhaps. Suddenly, the stats are equalized, so you would have two people at the same level, and only the gear strength relative to their level matters. This still tips the scales somewhat in favor of the guy at cap, also because hes more experienced, but the point is you get more of a fighting chance. And that is what would make PvP less about ganking and more about actual fights. But from what I saw, advocates for open world PvP want anything but fairness because carebear. To each their own I guess.
  14. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    If the PvE babies stop wanting to have ''balanced'' gear for in the open world....then everything would be all fine :p
    Raid gear was made for in Raids anyway....Why would they be able to have it on when in the open world?

    It's the most lame thing to say ever....
    What you want?
    PvP gear
    Leveling gear
    Raiding gear
    Open World gear

    And let put in some more:
    Crafting gear
    Gathering gear
    Adventure gear
    Housing gear
    .....

    Carbine has said what they are gonna do, and to be honest...reading all these comments even from the other threads about this, just make me think they made the perfect ''meet me halfway'' solution ;)

    So Good Job Carbine and just please do what you intend to do with PvP gear :up:
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  15. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    I don't like having to collect several sets of gear and the lack of freedom it presents. It's simply easier to just add PvP armor from a design perspective so that strict PvErs don't have to PvP to get gear that is better in a homogenized gear system. It's a trade-off, it sucks, However, PvP gear is here to stay. If you want to play on a PvP server, you'll have to suck it up and get PvP gear so that you have a fighting chance in the open world.

    Can't always get what you want. It's kind of a rule of life.
  16. Grytswyrm

    Grytswyrm Cupcake

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    Did you really just say that release WoW PvP was balanced because of only PvE gear being viable? What insane reality do you live in? Top end guilds in full t2 could one shot you and healers could make allies invincible by HoT's alone. Once naxx came out there was no way to kill a naxx geared player unless you were naxx geared.
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  17. plic70

    plic70 Cupcake-About-Town

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    They have said, back in May I believe correct me if I'm wrong, that there will be some form of downsizing wenn it comes to going into low level areas as a higher level character. Though, that doesn't mean that it will be "balanced" fight with the level 10 and level 50 in your arguement, since the level 50 will still retain higher stats than the 10 and have access to more abilities that will be augmented by gear set bonuses, talents, "glyphs" which will give the 50 the upper hand.

    But, Mel wasn't complaining about getting ganked on a low lever character, the complaint was about high level characters ganking other high level characters. As has been stated before, PVE-ers get PVE statted gear from PVE and PVP-ers get PVP gear from PVP. Carbine has said that is what they are going to do.

    Again, if you don't want to be ganked, don't roll on a PVP server and save yourself the butt hurt and us the whining. Also, according to AcidBarron, you kil 15 kittens everytime you complain about it. Now while I don't mind killing kittens (dog lover) apparently it's a big deal. So don't kill kittens.
  18. Mel

    Mel Cupcake-About-Town

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    If PVP gear was removed then the idea of PVE gear is also gone. Gear is just gear and weather you obtain it from PVP or PVE is a mute point.
  19. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    World PvP cannot be made fair, if it's not the stats it's something else such as.

    "Person jumped me while fighting a mob, wasn't at full health, unfair!"
    "More than one person jumped me, unfair!"
    "I was not prepared i was gathering, unfair!"
    "I Grabbed a drink and someone did not challenge me to a duel first and just attacked me unfair!"
    " I was trying to compete with a higher level over crafting nodes and he just killed me, unfair!"
    "wah, wadda wah wah waaaaaah"


    That's why world PvP is "unfair" it's by default unpredictable, uneven, the odds can change mid fight and can be determined pre-fight.

    If you want to make it fair, it's no longer called world pvp, it's called optional PvP and dueling, That's the long version the short version of course is due to people shortsighted view on the matter, so why not? Because carebear.

    So yes stay on your PvE servers, you don't see people advocating to turn on full PvP on carebear servers, so why the obsession about changing something you don't even want to be part of in the furthest of possibilities.


    People ganking you? Solution. Join a guild, get friends in a multiplayer environment. Not to mention games where there is no loss of items or experience aren't subject to massive griefing through ganking and people over play that card of a single experience once every blue moon.


    Kittens killed by this thread: 30 but an extra 15 were thrown into a meatgrinder just to be sure nobodies tears of sadness about world pvp were missed.
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  20. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Downsizing?

    :eek:
    Say whut?

    Wasn't it optional? (you can downsize if you enter a low level dungeon with a friend bla...bla...bla...)

    Also don't forget that Carbine has said this

    For example:

    A level 5 Tier PvP'er, is the same as a tier 4 PvE (if he wants to do PvE)
    A level 5 tier PvE'er, is the same as a tier 4 PvP (if he wants to do PvP)

    So seeing how this works, I don't think we'll see so much differences between PvP and PvE geared people in open world....atleast not as big as in other games.

    I feel people QQ without even knowing what Carbine wants to do, or knowing what kind of consequences it has for a game :down:
    GloryHogXL, Livnthedream and Kataryna like this.
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