Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Mel, Sep 16, 2013.
Should've exchanged "gear" in the title for "stats", then.
They created the problem with gear inflation. Resilience only addressed a problem that Blizzard created themselves. As long as damage doesn't soar with each expansion, you don't need a stat like resilience.
As far as your memories from Vanilla...yeah I remember being 2-shot a few times by high tiered raiders. But they were very rare occurrences. The thing I liked was that before resilience they weren't unkillable Gods if you didn't have uber gear yourself.
if PvP stats are your main complaint then I agree with you. Its not neccesary to have PvP gear. Its something that is not "neccesary" to enjoy PvP.
PVPers can be a bit touchy when you talk about taking away their "I win Button", but I bet you that if the PVP stats were removed from PVP gear you would see more people participating in the PVP.
If you remove PVP gear you remove the PVP stat. If you remove the PVP stat then whats the point of having a separate PVP gear set?
I'm not advocating for the removal of a PvP stat. The result of doing that is obvious. I'm just recommending you use more accurate titles for your threads.
Developers are likely to default to PvP stats anyway because it's less work on their part to balance the game, even if that means more work for the players who have to now gather more gear sets. Even if you can reign in DPS as gear progresses so that PvP is as balanced as PvE, it would take a lot more number tweaking by the devs and for all we know may not even be feasible later on in the game compared to just implementing a resilience-like stat.
I'm sorry, but you're problem is easily solved. PVP! You say yourself that you felt there was no point in doing both, except for you know, living. If you are on a PVE server and want to do some World PVP what makes you think that you should be able to go toe to toe with people who actually PVP? Should they be able to come into your raid without raiding and dominate it?
If you are playing on a PVP server, se my above comments. namely, why wouldn't you gear up to EXPECT world PVP!? I mean come on, don't roll on a pvp server if you don't want to put up with getting killed because you don't PVP. Don't PVP if you don't want to put forth the effort to get the gear.
If all MMO pvp players wanted to do was just kill people with no progression or reward for doing so, we would all be playing MOBAs. Personally I do not like MOBAs because I feel no attachment to any of the champions, nor can a drool over epic gear. I really dislike MOBAs for that reason.
Actually we absolutely need PvP gear. We need some form of gating mechanic for The gear so raiders do not get butt hurt that every pvp player gets equivalent gear to raiding. Also we need it so pvp players do not get butt hurt cause the PvE players are rofl pwning cause they have better gear.
Even if they were unlocked via a token or Elo rating they cannot be equal because too many people would complain. If you like to pvp, then pvp. If you like pve, then pve. The gear will come.
This is how I've felt about MOBAs too and was another reason why I never got into them. The feeling of attachment to my characters is really important to me and I need them to be exclusively mine. Progression is a big part of that and a big part of progression is getting gear that makes my character more powerful than before.
How you come to the conclusion that we would all be playing MOBA if we are PvPs that just love to kill other players is beyond me. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions but atleast make an effort to not talk random <REDACTED>.
So, you like PvP gear for PvP activities, just say that then.
omg this guy.....
Ignorance and arrogance lie close to eachother.
Saying and even thinking we want PvP gear in because it's our ''win'' button is one of those if not both!
It's the feeling of progressing that counts the most! Loads of PvP'ers don't mind if all gear/stats is equalised for Arena/PvP.
But completely removing the gear removes the entire progressing feeling you get in PvP, making it ten times more dull/boring.
It's like completely removing gear in the Dungeon/raiding content aswell.
Oke mayby you will get more people participating, but you will also lose people ten times faster by doing so! Completely destroying the content.
Removing gear from either raids or PvP, completely destroys the sence of progressing your character, and by doing so it destroys the entire game. If you cannot even begin to understand or see that, I point once again to those 2 words i've said in the beginning.
Even old games like Pokemon understood this, it's fun to see your pokemon get higher and grow....but once you got all your favorite pokemon at level 100 it slowly becomes boring.
Remove the ''levling your pokemon up'' in Pokemon and noway it would ever be so succesfull as a game!
Even MOBA's have more progressing then if you remove the PvP gear from this.
In a MOBa you still level up, get some kind of talent point (all till max ofc), but you also keep buying new champs and get learning to play with them. In an MMO you don't have the ''keep buying character'', for there won't be that many classes available as in MOBA's (LOL has way over 100 champs) as to 6 classes in WS.
Completely removing the gear progression is completely destroying any progression in PvP in WS.
people want to progress. gear is the easiest solution to that. i posted earlier about how vanilla wow was . i raided so it was my god given right to own everyone even people who were better than me at pvp .
it wasnt a good system. if you excel at pvp you should by right own in pvp if that means pvp gear as a reward and progression then so be it .
doing something that rewards stuff for doing the content you enjoy is the way to go about it . raid gear should be best for raids. solo gear for solo . pvp gear for pvp. thats how it should be and it is the only way that makes sense.
Its not random. Essentially if you are playing a game for PvP and do not care about GEAR PROGRESSION and an attachment to a toon you put hours and hours into, you might as well be playing a MOBA. Lots of horizontal progression in MOBAs via Champs, some vertical progression with tallents/mastery etc., but no real CHARACTER PROGRESSION. It would have the same garbage feeling (IMO) of PvP in GW2 where you can't work on your character cause it has all the gear already. I play MMOs to do lots of things to waste my time. I really like to PvP, I like to run dungeons and raid, I even like to craft in my down time.
You clearly did not read the rest of the paragraph.
Sounds like a pretty fair balanced point to me. Give the people what they want so babies don't cry. Also it suspiciously sounds EXACTLY like what Carbine is doing... hmmmm
I guess you can't do or say anything without someone being upset because they do not understand.
I really hope they keep the top PVP gear out of the arenas.. Just let PVP gear be PVP gear, don't make it so that you have to do arenas to get the best gear...
Nope you have to do Warplots for the best PvP gear (BG gear < Arena gear < Warplot gear)
Also don't worry they have the Rally system and ELO system to make the gear impact as minimal as possible.
Agreed, seems silly that a game which supports huge environments forces players to run around in a tiny cage over and over again for the pinacle of pvp competition. Its not that I dont like under 5man/side pvp but you need more room for it. Flailing around each other in confined space just annoys me.
Again: BG gear < Arena gear < Warplot gear
So the best gear comes from 20v20 or 40v40
You shouldn't have to have an entire set with a specific stat to be somewhat competitive in pvp. By all means there should be pvp gear, but it should use the same stats as PvE...they should just be distributed differently. Vanilla was right on the money the first time, and it was Blizzard fault for inflating numbers. PvP gear should be able to hold its own in PvE to a certain point and vice versa . Once WOTLK hit, that wasn't even remotely possible anymore.
The fact of the matter is it was always a losing battle for them because they never truly balanced the abilities separately for pvp / pve.
So you like Rpg's because they are rpg's, and you don't like mobas because they aren't rpg's? I mean it's a valid argument, but it's like saying you like Call of Duty because it's a first person shooter and you don't like madden cuz it's not a first person shooter.
The divide between PVP and PVE in these games is the real problem. People should be playing WildStar, not WildStar PVP or WildStar PVE. If they want to take part in one area, they have to deal with getting the gear they want in other areas. It's no different than raiders having to craft some of their gear in order to have the mythical "best in slot" gear. Why should they have to craft? They're raiders, dammit, not crafters! And why should anyone have to grind rep to get rep gear? They're raiders/crafters/PVPers/soloers, not rep grinders!
Why do PVPers get special treatment? They don't deserve it whatsoever if they're unwilling to go out and get the best gear.
That said, I firmly believe in two things relating to PVP. 1) World PVP should literally be ignored in all ways as far as attempting to balance the game aroudn gear. That's open season, and one sort of player shouldn't have any advantage over any other. Giving the advantage to PVPers is ridiculous; they already get an advantage in experience at playing against other players rather than the server. 2) Organized PVP/instanced PVP should have a matchmaking system so that people with awesome gear only face other teams with similar gear.