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Rethinking Racials: What if they were cosmetic?

Discussion in 'WildStar Races' started by Rootmuncher, Jul 25, 2013.

  1. Rootmuncher

    Rootmuncher New Cupcake

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    So I read a lot on the forums that people dislike racials for one reason: regardless of how insignificant they are, the small game boosts make you feel 'forced' to choose a certain race.

    But when I think about what I really do love about racials it isn't really that 1% stat boost. Its the flavor it adds to the race. So what if it was just that, a little bit of fun flavoring? wow has showed that fun, little abilities to enrich gameplay (see: minor glyphs for classes.). I think It'd be a good compromise for those who hate and love racials.

    I'm just thinking out loud here, but here are some of my ideas for a few; (feel free to skip these and just tell me what you think of the general idea, or maybe even post your own ideas for cosmetic/fun racials!)

    Mordesh (these are kinda straightforward, heh)
    • Teleport (3 min. cooldown)
    • Teleports you a short distance to your targeted location. Must be out of combat with no enemies nearby.
    (effect: the restrictions are basically there to prevent it to be used while fighting or to prepare for a fight since Wildstar is such a movement oriented game. Even with these, It'd be a pretty fun ability to use while walking between areas/on downtime.)

    • Pet (I'm terrible at names I know)
    • Take out and play with your abomination in its flask.
    (effect: I know they mentioned something about the squid pet in the trailer that made it seem more important than just a pet, but I think It'd be fun if all Mordesh characters could have their own little 'shh' moment with it. Basically, when using this ability your character plays an animation taking out and taking care/petting the flask.)



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  2. Ragel

    Ragel New Cupcake

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    I'll agree with you on this. It's the little things that always seem to matter most. Anything to kill time, or just simple enjoyment between the chaos of battles and daily chores.
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  3. ruff_ethereal

    ruff_ethereal Well-Known Cupcake

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    So fluff emotes and some skills for messing around? I'd love this, though it would take the animation team a long time to set it up how I want--that is, with reactions from the nearby characters.

    My contribution:

    Kneel Before Me!
    - Have your peers acknowledge your inherent greatness as a Cassian.
    - Visual Effect: Character stands tall and proud with their chin up. Also gains an inexplicable "royal" glow around them. Bonus points if a little droid pops in and out to place and retrieve the lighting.
    - Adjacent Effect: Characters mock bow, make rude hand gestures behind their backs, or simply make fun of the player.

    Aren't I the cutest thing ever?
    - Aren't are basically the most adorable race in the entire galaxy, and you know it!
    - Visual Effect: Character makes a "cute" face while a little droid throws about flowers and potpourri.
    - Adjacent Effect: Characters either smile, smile politely and reluctantly, or puke from the overload of cute.

    Transportation Mode
    - Mechari have a variety of techniques suited for virtually any situation, including sneaking into ships as cargo.
    - Visual Effect: Character quickly compacts themselves into a cube-like shape with their face on one side.
    - Adjacent Effect: Characters stare, blink, and some laugh.
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  4. Baeldan

    Baeldan Cupcake-About-Town

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    Had a big reply half done when I realised it just sounded aggressive. I'll suffice to say instead that I'm not in favour of this and want something actually fun that makes the races feel like different races.

    Although I'm loving the idea of incorporating the jar-squid for the Mordesh. But I'd prefer to be able to throw the flask at an enemy and see the squid do some good old face-hugging.
  5. Rootmuncher

    Rootmuncher New Cupcake

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    I'm loving some of your suggestions ruff, I was kind of in a standstill thinking of what would work for cassians!
    What is your idea of something fun that makes races unique? I don't mean it aggressively either, I'm just curious! The idea behind cosmetic/silly stuff was mostly to try and think around the usual, boring racials. I mean, having a 1% strength buff doesn't make my wow character feel any more like an orc and only helps me feel slightly bad for making him a non-strength class.

    Have you seen the abilities goblins have in wow? I think maybe you'd be leaning to like those more. (Goblins in wow can shoot rockets to attack enemies for tiny, tiny damage.)
  6. Baeldan

    Baeldan Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yeah I played a goblin DK in Cata. The rocket barrage was pretty cool, but what was even better were the rocket boots. I used that rocket boot racial all the time while raiding and helped heaps. That's the type of thing I want - things that are useful and thematic. Not just pretty and thematic. I wish people weren't afraid of mechanical racials.
  7. Skippy

    Skippy Well-Known Cupcake

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    I don't think it's just being ''afraid'' of them, it's more the problems it can cause in game-play itself and the balance of the game overall. Racials that are useable inside of combat or for anything other than cosmetic basically brings about problems had in a game like WoW.

    A good amount of WoWs racials were basically class defining abilities or could have incredible effects based on what class you wanted to play, often forcing people to play a race they didn't particularly like in order to get the best out of their character.

    For example, the night elf racial is essentially a vanish (combat drop), While a lot of classes aren't effected too much by this, you then have druids and rogues who both benefit from this significantly. Druids being able to flight form straight after hitting the racial? it's a straight out negative effect in world pvp. This particular racial can also serve as (yet another) re-stealth for a rogue.

    Blood elf racial (the aoe silence and resource grant), while this is a rather trivial (and somewhat unused) ability by most ranged / casters, it is a game changer for a rogue or warrior, as it gives them yet another interupt but this one being aoe.

    Human racial? self explanatory from a pvp standpoint, but orc's have a similar. The orc racial serves almost equal to most DPS trinkets basically meaning an orc can have 3 dps trinkets (counting the racial) or they can run with a pvp trinket in pvp while still retaining effectively two dps trinkets.

    While some of this stuff may seem ''small'' a lot of it can have a negative effect on the game, the racial / class combo's will often decide what race someone will go for what class. And funneling the players in to doing that is something devs should actively be staying away from.
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  8. ruff_ethereal

    ruff_ethereal Well-Known Cupcake

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    Need A Hand?
    - Helping out your fellow Exiles is a great way to dial down some of the animosity for you and your species.
    - Visual Effect: Character detaches his/her entire arm at the shoulder joint and waves it in the air.
    - Adjacent Effect: Characters wave back, stare in shock, or playfully reach out for the arm.

    Most Important Drink of the Day
    - A Granok's day is never complete without, at the bare minimum, one can of beer drunk.
    - Visual Effect: Character pulls out a can of beer, and shotguns it. Immediately after, they burp.
    - Adjacent Effect: Fellow Granok pull out their own cans and toast. Other players show disgust, or laugh.

    Fight The Fleas
    - Some battles are fought on all-too familiar ground, with very large handicaps.
    - Visual Effect: Character idly scratches their rear, armpit, or hair. Black particle effects and barely visible bugs fly/fall out.
    - Adjacent Effect: Characters yelp, scratch emphatically, or start stomping on suspected bugs.
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  9. Jimbob767

    Jimbob767 New Cupcake

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    This is an awesome idea, the teleporting Mordesh was something I had thought of before and it lead to me thinking about racials, has anything been confirmed? This would be fun but would it be to similar to /silly in WoW? (Not that I think that's a bad thing but maybe that could also be part of the game its self I dead of a racial). Although what your saying is mainly emotes so I guess that's the difference.
    My thoughts:
    Weight lifting Granok.. Flex your rock hard guns
    Or clean your weapons, possibly accidentally killing something in the process? :)
  10. Baeldan

    Baeldan Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yeah you and I had this same debate last week. Don't imagine getting back into it will help anything - neither of us will change our opinions. Though perhaps we could compromise? What do you think about making racials unusable in any form of ranked PvP, but outside of that we get mechanical racials?

    Edit: Also doesn't the same thing apply to paths? Wouldn't people feel obliged to choose a path with combat abilities that benefit their class the most as opposed to the path that provides content they want to play? Racials would surely be a much smaller factor than that.
  11. Swiftly

    Swiftly New Cupcake

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    I agree 100% with Skippy.

    There are a couple of what seem like minor "features" that can really ruin PvP. Racials, varying hitbox sizes, varying to hit distances, and auto-facing come to mind.
  12. Skippy

    Skippy Well-Known Cupcake

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    To be honest i would say they shouldn't be useable in any sort of combat, world pvp, structured / competitive pvp, all sorts of pve, mechanical racials that give combat bonuses can all benefit these and will all impact class / race choices.

    I think Rift did very well with their ''mechanical'' abilities, they were like speed boosts / non combat benefits and could only be used outside of bcombat. meaning you could get a rogue like sprint, but only useable outside of combat.
  13. Baeldan

    Baeldan Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yeah the Rift ones aren't too bad. Problem being they're not interesting - they're not very thematic. In fact I'd say the best racial in Rift was the Bahmi's 2h weapon animation where they would swing 2h weapons with one hand. That was rad.

    I don't think I've ever talked to a person who forwent a race they wanted for the sake of PvE min/maxing. I'm sure these people exist, but only those who are aiming for world and perhaps server firsts. And these are the people to whom thematic continuity doesn't really matter. Or not as much as getting the boss down.

    My last WoW guild got server first H Deathwing and nobody I heard of ever complained they had to play a race they didn't want to. You can do PvE content absolutely fine without the perfect racials and I think it's pretty obvious that the only people who would choose a mechanically superior race that they didn't want to play for the sake of PvE, would be a person who didn't care anyway.

    I'll also repost my previous edit here because I think it was missed in the flurry of conversation.

    Edit: Also doesn't the same thing apply to paths? Wouldn't people feel obliged to choose a path with combat abilities that benefit their class the most as opposed to the path that provides content they want to play? Racials would surely be a much smaller factor than that.

    Like I say, I got no problem removing racials from PvP. That's probably for the best.
  14. Skippy

    Skippy Well-Known Cupcake

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    People going for world / server firsts aren't the only ones, pretty much anybody who is looking to do their absolute best thinks of it. for pve or pvp.

    Obviously they care enough to roll a race specifically to better their performance?

    Not just for pvp, it has to be considered in pve as well, again for example you have an undead up against an orc for damage, lets say the impossible happens and they are equally geared, both pulling the EXACT same amount of dps without racials in count.

    As soon as you add the racials in the orc will pull ahead a substantial amount because of their racial that acts as a dps trinket, where the undead has what, a fear / sleep break? in this case and with anybody considering racials to better themselves when they choose a race / class combo, people will look at orc more than undead.
  15. Keeper of Ages

    Keeper of Ages New Cupcake

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    Actually, in Kaeyi Dream's interview with Jeremy Gaffney at a luncheon they said that there would be differences amongst the races in how they upgrade certain stats in the Elder Game. It comes up around 2 min in up until about 5 minutes.



    They mentioned that Aurin, for instance, could spend fewer points and upgrade their Agility/Dexterity faster than a Granok could, but that they would not prevent the Granok from being able to up their agility to that of an Aurin. The Granok would have a slight disadvantage in the fact that they would have to spend more points and thus take longer to upgrade that specific stat. The Aurin, however, would be in the same position as the Granok if they tried to increase their Strength.

    These points may be limited though, so maybe it will still cause some racial disparity.

    I hope it works out though. Gaffney said they don't want to gimp characters based on choices you made at the beginning of the game for race/class/path, to avoid the "optimization" conflict in WoW. They want you to be able to play the race and class you want without worrying as to whether or not it will be inferior to another combination.
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  16. Baeldan

    Baeldan Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yeah I've heard of this. I'm well aware we won't be getting any cool racials in Wildstar. Doesn't mean it's the right choice though. It's not a bad thing though. It's quite a cool little thing they've done with stat upgrade costs. Just not active OR visible. Which means it really may as well not be there.

    Does that mean a raid with an undead rogue won't be able to down the boss? Nope don't think so. This really does sound to me like a fear of mechanical racials. While it will have an influence on performance, and in some cases not inconsiderate, this level of defense against it for the sake of balance in my opinion is unreasonable.

    And again I'll bring up the path issue. Same problem, but nobody has an issue with it? If the Soldier path has an ability that's super awesome on warriors but far less useful on casters that'll be fine, but if the same ability is on a Granok suddenly the world implodes?

    Edit: So much for not getting back into the debate. Ugh. Don't have time for this. Shadowrun in the morning. (Where I'm sure races actually matter :p)
  17. Skippy

    Skippy Well-Known Cupcake

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    You essentially answered yourself.

    It effects the performance of your character, that is enough for it to bring imbalance. if you are fine having imbalance? please play some other game, the perfect one for you would be WoW currently. I'd rather play with others who want a balanced game.
  18. Evgen88

    Evgen88 Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think racial abilities, stat bonuses can work, there just has to be a good balance to them.
    Something that stops any race from being the obvious best choice for any role.
    The toughness of a granok could be balanced with a difficulty being healed. The speed of an Auren with a vulnerability to crushing damage, etc.
  19. Tribe

    Tribe Well-Known Cupcake

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    I think that most games have too narrow an idea of what racials could be. Cosmetic racials? Yes please, but why stop there? I wish Wildstar would offer a player a list of perks to choose from based on their race (hereafter refereed to as racials).

    When creating a character or at level milestones, a player could be presented with a list of racials to choose from. Say each race has 10 perks total, for the sake of balance some could overlap with other races. You could choose four of these total. Going even further, each race could also have negative racials. These would be optional, if you decide to use a negative/harmful racial you would have access to an additional positive racial, so one negative would allow you access to five positive racials.

    Some examples of racials for the Granok, off the top of my head:

    + boulder on your shoulder grants you additional inventory space
    + rolling stone curl into a ball and dash forward a short distance
    + cigar aficionado you have a keen eye for quality, merchant buy/sale % increase
    + rocksteady grants you a chance to avoid being knocked down
    + quake active ability that slows movement speed of all enemies with a ____ radius
    + crusty grants you increased armor

    - the bigger they are you take extra fall damage
    - fault lines you suffer increased durability loss
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  20. Xostro

    Xostro Cupcake

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    I am so loving the idea of this thread, Racials stats can make or break someones decision to roll a race.

    Maybe we could also do like a culture leveling thing with you race? Like at level 5 lets say a Aurin gets a small animal as a pet, And a Cassian would get some super refined cat or dog, And a Draken would get some sort of vicious baby wildlife creature?[​IMG]

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