1. Hey Guest! If you're more than just a WildStar fan and want to keep up on the latest MMO news, reviews and opinion pieces then I'd like to suggest you visit our sister site MMO Central

Round 2: A 1% Perspective on the Jeremy Gaffney I-view with Gamebreaker.tv

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Crucifer, May 22, 2013.

  1. Tiberius

    Tiberius Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Likes Received:
    113
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Virginia

    Gaffney stated that these weapons and abilities were temporary, available only during the quest itself. I'm sure there will be special path items, but as everyone else has mentioned every path has unique bonuses and items. The soldier is by no means it's own beast. The primary reason to play a soldier is to just hit things and always be in combat instead of quests that force you to spend extended time reading lore or dealing with jumping puzzles.
    Rumze likes this.
  2. Gazimoff

    Gazimoff Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Likes Received:
    100
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Location:
    United Kingdon
    Not sure if it's already been mentioned, but in Vanilla WoW all world bosses would leave you with a debuff on death that would make you unable to zerg them.

    As an example, if you died fighting Azuregos then you'd have a 15 minute debuff called Mark of Frost, that would last through death. This debuff would chain stun you as soon as you approached him, preventing people from being able to zerg him.

    It might also be able to give WildStar world bosses an Aura of AntiZerg which negates the insta-respawn for those nearby.
    Gempulse, Tiberius and Tacomagamefan like this.
  3. Crucifer

    Crucifer Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Likes Received:
    109
    Trophy Points:
    43
    It would possibly work but in some cases in world bosses guilds would kill other guilds attempting the boss. This could cause issues confusing the system.
  4. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2013
    Likes Received:
    339
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Honestly, I don't want paths to play any part in "min/maxing" whatsoever. At no point ever should a player have to consider their character's contribution to things beyond the path when picking their path; it should be entirely based on what they want to do, nothing more.
    Vyver, Menchi and Tiberius like this.
  5. Tiberius

    Tiberius Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Likes Received:
    113
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Virginia

    Definitely, the worst part about min/maxing games are those where the decisions you make at the most uninformed part of the game heavily affect the rest of your experience.

    Think of how many people's impression of the game would be destroyed if they spent months and months leveling to max, only to be told 6-12 months into the game that their starting choices were silly. "remember when you had no clue how the game worked and made a character last year? We do and your decision was <REDACTED>, please start completely over." If Carbine was trying to actively destroy their player/fan base this is what they'd do.

    Fortunetly CRB loves us, and have been seen and heard hand-crafting the experience to avoid just that.
    Thordran and Malorak like this.
  6. Thordran

    Thordran Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2013
    Likes Received:
    118
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Michigan, US
    That would be a pretty quick way to make a lot of people pretty mad. I still can't find the interview video that mentions it, but I remember listening to one where they said that they wanted to make it so that each path would provide you with useful tools/abilities as you progressed so that at no time would someone not take you because "oh, we need an explorer tank here, not a soldier tank", or something along those lines. I also thought that one of the keys in our limited action set would be a path ability. If the soldier gets one, it would stand to reason that the other classes get one too, and I find it difficult to believe that if everyone gets one, that only one class will have one that is useful. I think they want you to have multiple abilities, but have to choose a limited amount. Like you'll have 30-40+ skills by end game, but you have to pick like 10 or so to actually use in your limited action load out.

    Dollars to donuts that you'll get multiple path abilities that can help you dps/tank/heal. I could be wrong on this one, but I've been to the MMO development rodeo enough times to say that IMHO this is unlikely.
  7. Malorak

    Malorak Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Likes Received:
    146
    Trophy Points:
    43
    WoW had a telegraph system and still has it, too. Every Huge-as-<REDACTED> voidzone, every indicator is a "telegraph". Wildstar just has a very direct way with saying 'Every voidzone is red, end of story'. WoW nowadays sadly only has these earth-shakings 2378452 times in a row to mark a zone which looks ugly as hell.

    Autoattacks are probably there so that tanking isn't "lol I can dodge all attacks, healers are now useless take more DPS xDDDDD" or pretty much doable by whoever has the aggro of the mob but much rather have ALOT of stuff to dodge but only a few autoattack things
    Tiberius likes this.
  8. Tiberius

    Tiberius Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Likes Received:
    113
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Virginia

    Agree completely. If a squishy class pulls agro, but then effectively dodges every single attack you might as well not even have tanks or heals at all. Auto attacks, or even just attacks that come faster than dodge points accrue (dodge does in fact consume a limited resource), force the players to avoid grabbing the attention of the boss.

    Otherwise you get GW2, where no one relies on teamwork. It just looks like a cave full of rabbits because everyone is hopping and rolling all over the place. We already have space rabbits, I think that's enough :roflamo:
    CptElendi and Malorak like this.
  9. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2013
    Likes Received:
    339
    Trophy Points:
    63
    As a TERA player, I assure you that having no white-damage attacks from mobs does not make healers useless.
    Leiloni likes this.
  10. kur1

    kur1 Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Shiga, Japan
    They didn't carry this design forward into future expansions, however. Wonder why.

    I can see this becoming the new "all X's feel the saaaaame" rhetoric that plagued WoW. Class homogenization, etc. was a major complaining point for many people for years. More vocal players lamented their lack of defining abilities than ones who wanted Druids = Mage = Warlock.

    People want to feel they offer something indispensable to a raid, and if there's limited classes and Paths don't offer any distinct advantages, it basically falls to gear and dodging ability. Sounds good in theory, but people don't like the feeling they can be replaced by a better-geared, better-at-dodging dude at the drop of a hat.

    Part of me hopes Paths offer abilities that make characters more/less powerful in certain situations (i.e. a direct damage laser, an AOE damage laser, a debuff laser) to make players powerful in different ways. Then it's up to raids to figure out what mix of abilities/buffs would help the most. But it'd be balanced in such a way that not having the best Paths would make the fight unbearably difficult.
  11. Malorak

    Malorak Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Likes Received:
    146
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Well, humans aren't perfect, that may be true, but it definetly is easier to balance white hits much rather than just dish out raidwide damage or something else that'd make tanks/healers useful.

    Obviously, you're right, sorry if my post sounded a little like this...But imagine only voidzone-based fights without raidwide unavoidable damage - do well and you don't need a healer. I hoped they wouldn't make that mistake and just add raiddamage, but whitehits are fine, too IMO.
  12. Gazimoff

    Gazimoff Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Likes Received:
    100
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Location:
    United Kingdon

    Well, ish. In Burning Crusade, Doomwalker had a similar Mark of Death anti-zerg measure. Doom Lord Kazzak had a Supreme Mode enrage that kicked in after 3 minutes of combat.

    World bosses only returned in Mists of Pandaria, and their design seems quite different. I'm not sure why there aren't any anti-zerg or anti-compete measures in that expansion, but I've not played much MoP endgame as the mass of daily quests zerged my enthusiasm for the game.
    Xlugon Pyro likes this.
  13. Tiberius

    Tiberius Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Likes Received:
    113
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Virginia
    I mean, healers would still be there for the people that muck up, but the guy was talking about how if everyone is 'technically' able to avoid all that then having a healer in a high tier raiding group is suddenly sub-optimal. And we all have seen how people looove to complain about min/maxing imbalance.



    Carbine definitely wants each path to have something unique to contribute. Let's not get the two confused: just because two people have unique abilities to contribute, does not mean they will be contributing in the same way. I agree WoW got a little too homogenized, as the number one reason to split the classes evenly was for loot distribution.

    Crucifer's original fear is that either only the soldier's ability can do good damage, or that Carbine will give each path an ability that, while 'different looking,' effectively all do the same damage and are therefore pointless. These are the two polar ends of the spectrum, and I'm sure Carbine is capable of making everything in between. It would make little sense for them to be making great abilities for all the classes, and then upon working on paths to suddenly be all, "We could try to do something unique with our most touted feature, but naaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh......"
  14. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2013
    Likes Received:
    339
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I dunno. Watch a Shandra Manaya HM or Kelsaik Runaway (20 man) video, and you'll see that healers are certainly not neglected by the community at high end content in TERA (not that the game has a lot of content, but... y'know haha). I simply think you're overblowing the whole "Oh we can technically avoid most damage" thing. In addition to the spike damage of people taking hits (which happens especially a lot in Kelsaik, as you have to get hit in order to swap your debuff), you can have damage auras or fundamental debuffs that players must take (these two fights have interesting debuff swapping mechanics), and I'm sure there are other things that can be done to make things interesting for the healer. On the first phase of Manaya, "healer aggro" is actually utilized as a mechanic of the fight, where the healer uses the aggro generated from their heals to take and kite a million bazillion adds that spawn (as well as kill them by kiting them over particular puddles that are dropped by another set of adds they have to make sure they aggro and kite in a line). It's also significant that healers are much more than just healers - they're support as well, providing different buffs and mana return or dispelling some shield or whathaveyou off the boss.

    So yeah, there's definitely a need for healers even in an action game like TERA. I honestly just think white hits are an incredibly boring mechanic and extremely unfun when soloing stuff. I wish WS didn't have them. D:
    Leiloni and Vyver like this.
  15. DrThreaded

    DrThreaded Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    8
    You're coating it with too much Sugar friend.

    Any boss without extremely convoluted and retarded mechanics (HM Meldita) or some kind of inherent damage that has to be mitigated in order to survive doesn't require a healer in Tera.
  16. CriSPeH

    CriSPeH Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    May 14, 2013
    Likes Received:
    179
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Relaxing in the Bastion
    I did read something in the Path sections that claimed Soldiers will get extra damage dealing abilities.

    I didn't read anything that said the other Paths will not receive some sort of similar damage dealing/increasing type abilities.

    I would imagine that learning more with Scientist, building with Settler or exploring/claiming with Explorer could all potentially give some type of buffs or abilities that would be equally beneficial in the destruction of mobs.
    Personally I would try for a system where the more variety of Paths in a grp the better the buffs/abilities would be.

    I would also hope that the Path system will be separate from PvP(minus Open World) so the balancing of the different Path abilities wont be as essential or heavy.
  17. kur1

    kur1 Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Shiga, Japan
    I think I recall that video, and I think the full context was they'd get extra damage for whatever scenario they were doing in the open world.
    Tiberius likes this.
  18. DrThreaded

    DrThreaded Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Are you talking about the Path milestone / skill things each path gets or something else?

    Like the Explorer group wide speed buff ect?
  19. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2013
    Likes Received:
    339
    Trophy Points:
    63
    And yet I can't think of a single group that deliberately doesn't take a healer (unless they're doing something like lancer-soloing MC or whatever just for lols).

    The thing is, I can guarantee you there will be people who will figure out which class/path combination is best, no matter what Carbine does - if buffs/abilities that are combat-applicable are included as path bonuses. There's just no way around it, unless the rewards are absolutely minimal. Which means people will feel shoehorned into particular class/path combinations.

    And I really don't think that's what paths are supposed to be. They're not even required for progression in the game!
    Leiloni likes this.
  20. MrWASDclick

    MrWASDclick Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    18
    My chime-ins... I'm sure there are others that will have the same opinions, and some that will totally disagree.

    Telegraphing Appearance
    It is a bit ugly and opaque. I think they could do with a lighter tone, like how GW2 does their AoE highlighting.

    Telegraphing Inaccuracy
    A character's hitbox isn't one pixel like in a 'bullet heck' shooter game. So I'm betting that the Telegraph areas show the total affected area, and that your hitbox might still be in it. An option to turn on a visible "hitbox" indicator might help fix the problem but giving the player a better idea of where they are in relation to the telegraph. Use it to learn your size interaction, then turn it off to reduce screen clutter when you get comfortable dodging.

    Pay To Respawn On Location
    Not in battlegrounds/raids/structured competitive stuff. Only open world. That wouldn't be bad at all with a 30 minute timer. Shaman and Warlocks in WoW can do it with self-rezzes, and you could do it in CoH by quaffing a single potion-like item (it seriously took all of like... 2 minutes to find/craft one as a drop from any mobs). So here's how we mitigate it...

    1. Resurrection Animation - Immobilized and effectively stunned, you're not going to get back into a fight without someone covering your arse. Just a few seconds, but it's enough for world PvP to make you dead again.

    2. Resurrection at 50% Health - So if you do pop up, you're not doing it with a full reserve of power ready to go.

    3. Timer - Already implemented! Hooray!

    Housing Dungeons
    Don't judge a book on it's cover. This is such a unsure subject that we can't say for sure what it will be like.

    Path Balance

    Soldier - It won't be made to give a DPS upgrade more so than any other path. A Scientist might get +Crit Damage from knowing the anatomy of their enemies. Explorers might get a temporary damage buff after a dodge because they're good at conserving momentum, so they can put more energy into their swing after a dodge roll. If Soldiers do get more abilities for combat, they'd have to be utility skills. They won't use/build Kinetic Cells, Esper Combo Points, or anything like that. It might just open up new ways for that class to play, by giving Warrior/Soldiers grenades and holdout pistols for more range attacks, or giving a Spellslinger/Soldier a kick that does damage and makes them jump back like a dodge roll. Soldier skills won't be BETTER: just different.

    Scientist - They might eventually run out of things to scan, but adding more enemies and locations through expansions will always give the Scientist a few more things to scan. Plus they can always go on treasure hunts by solving lab puzzles. Raids might also have scientist puzzles inside that could open up faster paths to the boss for the entire team's benefit. Diagnostic missions will always be available, because things will always break down. Also Botany and Archaeology can unleash boss battles. Benefits to the "1%" include, boss fights, unlocking new paths and treasure rooms, and maybe even repairing devices in a boss fight that you can use to help beat the boss faster!

    Explorer - Expansion content will help keep things fresh here as well. Like the scientist, they can open new paths to expedite raids. Explorers have longevity through Staking Claim missions (which I imagine causes some resistance from locals who don't like you putting down flags), Operations, Tracking epic beasts and getting treasure with Scavenger Hunts. Benefit in the Elder Game? Mad lewts, helping find ninja-y paths for Raids and maybe even BG's and Warplots, and getting people into boss fights.

    Settler - It takes time to build things, surely, so more than 1 settler will be needed to make a boss-fightin' outpost. At least in any timely fashion. Also, gather supplies to power machines that might be present in boss fights for better team DPS.

    So I'm not thinking path will have much effect, if at all, on the efficacy of a single player in the Elder Game. Raids will want a mix to cover all the bases, and that'll be so awesome.

    Paths do not dictate your entire play experience.

    Only approximately 25% of the expected things that you do will be path-based. So a Soldier can still get quests that are about exploring a zone, it's just not going to be something handed to him four times every zone, so to speak. Likewise, Settlers will still get into fights with creatures.

    Also, as far as I've seen, you can still accompany other characters while they do their stuff, fighting enemies from Soldier content and Settler's Public Service missions, following Explorers into underground paths, and going into hidden rooms for loot with the Scientist.

    So you can DO any path at any time... (Even the settler building stuff, sort of, thanks to Personal Housing.) You just have to actively seek it out and set your own goals, instead of having it handed to you.

Share This Page