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Round 2: A 1% Perspective on the Jeremy Gaffney I-view with Gamebreaker.tv

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Crucifer, May 22, 2013.

  1. DrThreaded

    DrThreaded Cupcake

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    All the decent players no longer do content that doesn't have required healing mechanics like HM MC and Kelsaik.

    Healing is overall less important at endgame PvE, it's why people prefer Mystics over Priests. Even BHS understands this, otherwise they wouldn't have buffed Priest Utility in KTera to such a dramatic degree. Anyways we're getting off topic and Tera is bad at everything except the combat anyway.

    The way you guys are talking about paths is odd to me. They do have buffs in each path with varying uses, Soldiers have a self buff that increases their Primary attribute by a lot for 15 seconds, Scientists have a 20 second crit aura for themselves and the party, Explorers have a 20% run speed 15 second buff for themselves and the party, Settler has a Rez station that may or may not work in combat and a 12 second channeled shield generator that absorbs 25% of damage in an area.

    Each path has 3 different abilities, I just cherry picked the ones that probably have the best PvE usage.
  2. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    The new content that "top end" players are doing is MCHM and Kelsaik, actually, as the 10 and 20 man raid versions of Kelsaik were released in NA recently. I'll be interested to see if BHS manages to do any innovating with the two other raids coming down the pipes.

    Though to be fair, I started out saying that healing in TERA is half about being a support class in addition to healing. And honestly, I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact, I think it makes the role more engaging and would prefer to see something of that nature in WS.



    And even with just those listed, I can right away tell you exactly which path will be "best" for dps - Soldier. If you don't take that path to get the attribute CD, then you're gimping yourself. The party-wide crit buff would likely be considered best for healers, and the shield generator will be considered best for tanks (or healers). Already we see how roles will be pigeonholed into certain paths for those "min/maxing" folk, and that is not acceptable in my eyes.
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  3. Leiloni

    Leiloni Cupcake-About-Town

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    This. Right now the endgame PvE content requires constant healing due to debuff mechanics on both fights requiring the players to take damage. Not to mention both fights have other mechanics that if not properly avoided, can take huge chunks of your health, if not one shot you. Healers are very necessary in these fights and they were necessary even in the previous content that had a lot of avoidable damage. That being said, they are definitely more than just healers, a huge part of their role is as you said, supporting in other ways and that's what I loved about TERA.

    And as a healer I much preferred the fights that allowed my group to skillfully avoid damage because it gave me more time to use my various supporting abilities. It was more fun when I didn't have to spam heal my team because those fights felt like they rewarded skillful action gameplay much more so than these forced debuff fights. I didn't want to spam heal all day when I could be merely patching up mistakes and using my buffs and mana return skills to make my group do even more dps and the fight go even faster.

    The use of auto lock/auto attacking abilities in this game is a bit of a disappointment because it takes a measure of skill out of the game and forces me to spam heal people for no good reason. I guess we'll have to see how it turns out, though in Wildstar. Also I read a few people concerned about the telegraphs being simple and/or slow but we need to keep in mind we have only seen low level gameplay and it will get tougher. Carbine even said it would get tougher. TERA was the same way - at low levels attacks were slower and telegraphs easier to see but as you got into the higher levels attacks were much faster and hits were much harder, requiring much more skill to succeed. A player has to learn the basics first before you make it complicated and I think Wildstar will likely do the same thing.

    Regarding paths I think with what we know right know you're definitely right and that crit buff is exactly why I want to play a Scientist on my healer. But I think there is room for other roles to use other paths. If a healer wants to be more defensive or perhaps do more PvP, the Shield might be nice. Or the Soldier CD that increases primary attributes could be used by a healer for a bit of burst healing in a tight situation. That second Soldier ability could be a great life saver for a healer in PvP when they're focused, etc. I think dps and tanks can find uses for the other ones as well depending on their playstyles. So right now I am not really worried about the paths being required for anyone and of course none of it is set in stone so they can always change those abilities down the line to balance it out better.
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  4. MrWASDclick

    MrWASDclick Cupcake

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    "Roid Rage" - Soldier Path Buff
    Increase your primary attribute by X% for 15 seconds.

    Simple and easy, you get any one primary stat buffed to silly levels. That makes you crazy better at whatever it is you do for those 15 seconds. Especially since your secondary stats get boosted to, since they're apparently derived from your primary stats. Tanks can take more punishment in a painful situation, healers can bump their healing numbers up in that same situation, and you get a burst of damage for your DPSers. I see only a slight bit of imbalance, and that's in PvP content, where the burst damage will be potentially very deadly. It's a solo ability, and I'm sure the Soldier can have an ability for groups... like a battlecry of courageous +9 vs ogres or something.

    "Expose Weakness" - Scientist Path Buff
    All allies within X meters get +5% crit chance/damage for 20 seconds.

    Well, in PvP Raiding, this is clearly equally valuable across all roles. Force multiplication outweighs the Soldier buff any day of the week. This would be good for any melee role, where players tend to swarm around a very small area. Ranged not as much due to a tendency to spread out. Solo, not so great... but this is clearly a GROUP ability. If each path has three abilities, you can bet your sweet bippy they'll have a solo skill too.

    "Get to ze choppah!" - Explorer Path Buff
    All allies in X meters get a speed boost for 15 seconds.

    Deceptively awesome. Wildstar is a movement-based game. Raids want you because you can make the party move between fights faster, and make it easier to move out of big telegraph circles. Solo it's nice because every once in a while, we all need to GTFO and we can't use out mount for whatever reason. PvP is great because those that can control the map get the advantage, and guess what you can do if you're faster than the other team? Sure, you're not topping the DPS chart, but you're providing a service and being a team player who plays a unique role.

    "I Solve Practical Problems." - Engineer Settler Path Buff
    All damage done to allies within X meters is reduced by 25% for 12 seconds. Channeled.

    This is just fantastic. Who doesn't love a button they can press when they'd otherwise say a lot of <REDACTABLE> words? Tanks will love it, healers won't because it's channeled, and DPS players who are prone to faceplants might find it a great way to not get ganked.


    It seems your concerns are solely in the solo DPS role, aiming to be the very top numbers guy. If that's what you want, then the Soldier path is actually probably your bread and butter to begin with. But because there's more than three roles for group content, any path can fill a niche that is welcome for a party.
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  5. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    I actually don't play dps classes (usually a tank or a healer), but please - tell me what the fourth or fifth or whatever role in group content is. There are healers, there are tanks, and there are dps; this isn't GW2 where the holy trinity was smashed to bits. The crit buff will be considered more of a healer-utility thing, because healers will be more capable of weaving in and out of raid members and positioning themselves to distribute said crit buff optimally (similar to how mystic crit buff in TERA works), whereas the tank(s) and dps folks are more locked in place position-wise. Likewise, why would a dps class want an ability that would reduce damage taken in an area when they could pick up an ability that increases their damage output?

    The movement speed bonus really won't be able to compare and will be mostly useful to healers, as we've been told of positional-style healing in the past, and that's more of a support-style ability anyway.

    So yea, it's pretty clear to me what the problem is. Carbine needs to really reconsider giving paths these kinds of bonuses.
  6. Leiloni

    Leiloni Cupcake-About-Town

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    I agree with everything else you said, but this I just have one small thing to point out. I disagree that it will not be good for ranged. Based on my experience with TERA and other action combat games, good players will not be spread out.

    From the healer's perspective I can tell you that skilled ranged dps will learn how to manage their positioning relative to the boss as well as relative to the rest of the group. You need to dodge out of the telegraphs while making sure you're in a good spot to do max dps while making sure you're in a good spot to receive heals and buffs from your healer. In a game where heals are telegraphs with a limited radius, or buffs are telegraphs with a limited radius, or orbs are dropped on the ground, etc. ranged dps need to all stand near each other so the healer can drop their AoE skill on everyone all at once.

    For example in TERA, the best place for me to be was often on the side of the boss so I could reach both the tank in front and the dps behind all at the same time. If a ranged dps was on the far other side of the boss and taking damage, he was likely not getting healed until I had a free moment to run all the way around the back to catch him. In tab target games you have massive range and can stand in one spot to heal everyone. In action games that use telegraphs, the healer has a more limited range and needs to place themselves in the proper position to heal with the telegraphs, thus they are constantly moving and repositioning. If the dps is in a bad spot and forces me to run too far away from the rest of the group to heal them, or waste an extra heal because they weren't close enough to receive the first one, they are bad.

    In games like this positioning is very important for everyone and ranged dps will quickly learn this lesson as well, or they'll die. It's like that Gaffney quote about telling your dps to form a phalanx so the healer can throw a telegraphed heal on all of them at once. Players will learn these healing shapes at endgame and the best groups will be the ones where people can coordinate and move together in the appropriate spot for efficient healing.
  7. MrWASDclick

    MrWASDclick Cupcake

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    Well, you still have the main trinity, but because of Limited Action Slots, it's not going to be practical to have a jack-of-all-trades who is fully optimized.

    Instead, there's going to be specialists. AoE DPS, Single Target DPS, DoT DPS, Crowd Control, Group healers, Single Target healers, Main Tanks, Squishy Rescuer (lots of burst aggro to pull mobs off healers and such.) And who knows what else. A crowd control specialist isn't going to get much out of a 15 second stat boost, when they could up the crit of all their allies, or up their run speed to kite between cooldowns.

    I suppose we could call them "sub-roles."

    A DPS Stalker might want the reduced damage aura because they raid. Even if the buff is a 100% stat buff for 15 seconds, the cooldown is going to be robust. Say 2 minutes. In a 10 minute fight, that's only 12.5% more damage overall. And we can all agree 100% more damage for 15 seconds is downright broken, so that 12.5% is going to be far lower. Probably 5% overall.

    But that 25% damage reduction might save them while their healers are doing their job, saving a wipe.

    Is it min/max? Not quite. Is it viable? Yes, even for the 1%.

    That's nice to hear.

    I'm just going off my own experiences from WoW, CoH, and DCUO. WoW players clump up or spread out based on the boss they fight usually. CoH, ranged players ran off and did their own thing, relying on green inspirations to heal. DCUO... Pfft... That was just chaos 9 times out of 10.
  8. DrThreaded

    DrThreaded Cupcake

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    (totally <REDACTED>ed up my post, I meant the opposite thing for Tera dungeons)

    Anyways, thank you Mr Click for summarizing the stuff I was going to summarize but then got busy cooking.

    For the record, a true min/maxer would go 5 scientist party and keep the crit aura up for 80% of the fight. Also the soldier buff is 3 attribute points per level. So like 3 times 60.

    Anyways...I mine as well post the others.

    Soldiers can knock melee range people 8 yards away from them and remove any CC as well as increase their resistance a little to CC.

    They can also summon 2 NPCs that are a gunner and a soldier to do damage to stuff.

    Scientist has a 500% weapon DPS self heal with a HoT that is 100% weapon DPS heal per second for 8 seconds.

    Also a summon probe attack that does damage to a target / AoE around it per second for 18 seconds.

    Explorer get a 250 endurance buff + 25% jump height buff that lasts 10 seconds.

    Also a 700% weapon DPS AoE attack that also blinds everything nearby for 3 seconds.

    Settler can summon a turret that deals 125% Assault Power to everything in front of it

    Basically every path gets 3 abilities of varying usefulness.
  9. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    I honestly think you're making too many assumptions, and I sincerely doubt there will be that much "sub-specialization" on an individual level. Yes, you will be able to swap out abilities between fights depending on if a certain fight requires more AoE or CC or whatever, but I really doubt it's going to be to the point where individual players specialize in a certain role.
  10. kur1

    kur1 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Perhaps. I think it was during a 30+ minute dev interview that centered on Paths, though. Unfortunately I can't remember the video context, but I do recall something about paths offering OP stuff in certain situations only. Meaning they wouldn't have super-OP abilities or buffs available in raids due to balance, but would have them at Soldier killing missions.
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  11. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    In one of the demo videos the Dev said that he was heavily vested in CCs on his Warrior; this directly impacted his DPS, but he really liked the control (Which includes the ability to disrupt.).
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  12. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    Which is fine when you're soloing - or perhaps even for PvP. Possibly less fine in a raiding environment.

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