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Since mounts have been confirmed for awhile, who here supports flying ones?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Alex Moorhouse-Reaume, Apr 2, 2013.

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Would you support the implementation of flying mounts?

  1. Yep!

    46.6%
  2. No way!

    53.4%
  1. Elrodeus

    Elrodeus Cupcake

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    I'm missing your logic....so you're saying since we fly airplanes, helicopters, spaceships in real life it wouldn't make sense for us to not have flying cars, hoverboards, and hover bikes as a main means of transportation???

    This just in, we don't have flying cars, hover bikes, or hover boards as a main means of transportation.
  2. Elrodeus

    Elrodeus Cupcake

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    This is a horrible idea. If flying mounts are implemented I just won't pick the Explorer path (even though it's my favorite path in the game so far). You're basically asking them to put invisible (flying mount) walls to stop people from flying to a place that was CLEARLY MEANT TO BE EXPLORED. Visible walls of any kind are horrible for MMORPG's. If you're going to make the mistake of adding flying mounts to the game just chalk the Explorer path up as one more thing in the game that's being trivialized and call it a day. No reason to add invisible walls to attempt to make it worthwhile again. Because it won't be.

    Instead you'll have maps up online that show all the invisible walls on each zone you have to avoid while flying in your mount. And if you're not familiar with them you'll just bump into them like a flying bumper car would when it hit an INVISIBLE WALL.
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  3. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    Because we don't have any of those things IRL? Well except the hover bike, that exists, it's just a prototype atm. If man could make an affordable flying car, with controls similar to that of a car, we would.

    It makes even more sense considering the fact we don't even explore large swathes of land on foot anymore, we do it by satellite and air. Then once we've narrowed the area down significantly do we go in with ground vehicles and cars.

    Of course the bigger mystery has always been how one person can move their hands and suddenly a vehicle appears below or around them. THAT's the mystery we should be using the brainpower in this thread to figure out.
  4. Vanor

    Vanor Cupcake

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    No you're making a faulty argument.

    You're saying it doesn't make sense, because we don't have those things. But this just in. We also don't have individually owned star ships that let us travel to other planets. We don't have a star system spanning empire that we're members of.

    Wildstar is clearly a sci-fi setting, a far, far future sci-fi. Using what we currently have as a reason why the game shouldn't have it is some of the most faulty logic I've seen in some time.
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  5. Dualist

    Dualist Cupcake-About-Town

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    Mass Displacement.

    /caseclosed:cool:
  6. Apostate

    Apostate Well-Known Cupcake

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    Chiming in to share my contempt for invisible walls.
  7. Elrodeus

    Elrodeus Cupcake

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    No I'm saying that just because all those things exist does not mean they're cost efficient to implement. We have spaceships, we have aircraft, we have space stations (albeit not the sci fi ones we have in movies) we have all of these things. But we still drive around in land vehicles because it's not cost efficient to go into your garage and take your helicopter out to drive to Walmart.

    Just because we can fly does not mean it makes sense to fly everywhere.
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  8. Vanor

    Vanor Cupcake

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    No, we don't have any where near the tech level that WS looks to have. So making a comparison between what we have right now and what will be common place and cost efficient who knows how far into the future is faulty logic at best.
  9. Arrclyde

    Arrclyde New Cupcake

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    No sorry, u got me wrong on that on. I meant you can't use the flying mount at the point u start your path mission. Or if you fly up there a messege pops up, saying "satalite uplink failed, insufficient trackdata.... how did u get up here? Get down and try again."
    Invisible walls are one of the worst thing in MMOs or games in general. They just show devs can't think of crative ways (or don't want) to solve things players might get somewhere where players should not belong......

    which lead me to some pretty strange places in vanilla WoW when i got on top of some mountains i wasn't meant to be going :)

    I just wanted to say: there are ways how flying mounts would not take away any of the fun.
  10. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    If Settlers can do this for free then everyone would still have to be Settlers because they wouldn't want to keep paying these fees. Making flight too much of a hassle just makes people hate the system.

    We don't have anti-gravity rocks, spell-firing guns, or bikes with the front end hovering off the ground either. The world they've shown so far of Nexus, not having easy air travel would be more out of place than having it.

    I don't see any problem with having "soft walls" that knock you out of the sky. You're still meant to explore that area, you'll just have to do it on foot. This even happens in the real world, where weather conditions make it impossible for a helicopter to fly through a given area. If you want to fly, you'll have to go around, if you want to explore that area, you'll need to go in on foot. What's the problem?

    That's like saying that allowing the other classes to participate in combat trivializes the Soldier path, or that having any static NPCs and resources trivializes the Settlers.

    There definitely shouldn't be any invisible walls, at least not ones that you're meant to reach (they can keep them "just in case" you manage to slip through a gap you're not meant to, but if all goes well you should never encounter one). All barriers should be soft barriers, and they should be on the mini-map auto-map already as you encounter them, just like reefs are mapped out on nautical maps.

    I would have them swoop in. Use orbital drops. The 'casting" animation would be you fiddling with a communicator, and then a second or two later the vehicle, land or air, would plummet from your housing plot above (or some orbital station) and crash in front of you, then you hop on. This is how some engineer items in GW2 work.

    Depends on how cheap and easy it is. If hover tech is cheap and easy enough that it can be used just to lift the front end of a hoverbike, or to keep a housing plot permanently aloft, I don't think it's a stretch to believe that it would be cheap and easy to keep a hover bike airborne too.
  11. Arrclyde

    Arrclyde New Cupcake

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    @Ohoni:
    i see your point. Of course there has to some reason, some goods and bads about everything. In my example there is the beacon which costs u money, right. Then there is the one with the settler who will need more material and Time to build. So in dangerous situations you would have to choose either to set up a beacon which brings u the vehicle in a set amount of time, or be the settler who will certainly need protection while building this port....

    Those are just examples, and i am definately not a developer. But those examples show some (not all) ways how flying mounts will not have much of a negativ effect on openworld experience and actually add to the depth of gameplay.

    Well but for some new things are bad (i am not saying to you). when i come across some postings like "mmos always have been..." i start smiling and think "yeah right, and people always have been living in a cave ;-)" everything evolves some way.
    Open-PvP is another big subject that goes along with flying mounts. I see many posts of people who seem to want the "good ol" WoW-times back.... with world of roguecraft, killing lowies who have no chance of getting away and gear should be the number one power in pvp.....
    Considering the Numbers of viewings on the wildstar youtube channel: i just hope the Devs don't listen to those "wish-vanilla-back" type of player. It wouldn't make sense since you don't have 200 people working 7 years (speculation) on a product that most likely just a few will enjoy.

    But since i couldn't find any real detailed information about open-pvp and pvp itemisation i wait and see what time brings til i decide what to think about that. And then i will decide where as a pvp-player i will play, may it be a PvE or a PvP-server. Well.... if this is an idea: how bout flying mounts only at PvE-servers? Since Open-PvP-players don't seem to like the idea of flying mounts in open world.
  12. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    I never have a problem with new things. New things are good. It's new things that are bad that are bad. Having to set up beacons or have settlers build doodads in order for me to use my airbike are bad, not because they are new, but because they are bad, and they would remain bad even if WoW had done them first.I don't see them as any sort of positive evolution of what's come before, I see them as a superfluous left flipper growing out of my forearm or something.

    I've always said, "Because PvP" should never be any excuse whatsoever to not implement flight on PvE servers to their fullest. Design flight for PvE servers in a complete, PvE-only vacuum, how can flight best work with PvE, and only then consider what changes might be necessary for PvP servers.
  13. Crimmen

    Crimmen New Cupcake

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    I don't like flying mounts. They make the world small. You can "helicopter" in and out of stuff and cherry pick everything.

    Getting places is part of the adventure. I used to love traveling in Everquest. That was an event in itself. You would get the Sprit of the Wolf buff to run faster and off you went to have an adventure. Sometimes you had to run past tough content and mobs and that was a blast. You would have sneak past the tough mobs that would basically camp you if you got killed and that was exciting. You respected the creatures out there because they could ruin your day. Things like that made for good stories. It made for fun. It made for some hard times in game that later were cherished memories of the game because you were there and you earned every level and every bit of XP you got. Tough gaming is fun and rewarding.

    Flying mounts kill the sense of adventure. Travel puts players out there to interact.
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  14. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Running past each other on the way to different goals is not interacting. The trick to getting players to interact is to have plenty of compelling content in the world for them to race TO, not through.
  15. Stare

    Stare New Cupcake

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    Flying mounts kill everything about enjoying MMO's contents IMO. I'm sad to hear there implementing this, but not going to stop me from playing yet.
  16. Arrclyde

    Arrclyde New Cupcake

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    @Ohoni:
    well i see your point. But i think they way HOW something is implemented is much more important then WHAT is coming to the game. I wouldn't say that flying in general is a bad thing. As long as there are logic consequences to every choice u'll make. Flying above the head of everybody on the ground should not only be comfortable there should be a threat to it which u don't have on the ground. But even without that i would like seeing flying mounts in the game.
    I like Games that gives me options and freedom to do things the way people like doing, even or especially when u actually have to sort out the benefits and consequences before u do something. Being against flying "just because" to me would be not an option.

    Besides WoW had those "jump on a drake and take of in no time" and not some things in preparation to do in order to fly. Mounts in WoW are just a linear path in progression and nothing about making choices, cause there are no consequences to jump on that super duper flying mount. Or to put it in a Devspeak type of words (Sprintmeter) "because without a balance between benefits and consequences you would't be flying... just traveling.... faster". Like i stated before: Flying above in the open gives the opportunities to add some pretty needy placeable weapons which can get people flying into serious trouble.
    You just seem to think about bad things u don't like. Instead of turning disadvantages into something good. And i don't think "made the world in order to have players being able to fly at some time" just means that buildings and mountains have textures on top. I think that the devs have thought about how this wild new planet stays hostile even if u lift up the ground.
  17. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well look, I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of aerial combat, especially if it's not everywhere and some places you can just have fun, but I really would prefer to have "coasting altitude" where you can just point your heading in the direction you want to go and AFK until you get there if you like with no risk of getting waylaid (assuming you plotted a course that avoids JPs and other "out of bounds" areas, of course).

    Now, there should be things on the ground that you could get involved in,and there should be good UI elements to highlight these opportunities, and they should be fun and rewarding to get involved in if you like, but the choice should be up to you. If where you're going is more important, you can just keep going, and that's fine too. The flight itself doesn't need to be a tension-filled activity, it provides a solid downtime between one event and the next, so you can release the tension you've built up in preparation for the next encounter.

    I think that the only essential "danger" to aerial combat should be that you shouldn't be able to fly into areas that would be inaccessible by foot, like landing on the roof of an enemy base and sneaking in or something. Simple anti-air defenses can prevent this though.
  18. Arrclyde

    Arrclyde New Cupcake

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    I am all with u on having opportunities in most ways. To me same counts with open PvP in MMOs. Just because it says "PvP-Server = PvP can happen everywhere" doesn't mean u have to take all that beating. There should be an opportunity to chose weather i take part in open-PvP or get the heck out of there. Then it is not the right of some to force People to stay or log out just because "it's a PvP-server duuuh". Sneaking around the Corner, getting out of fight and manage to get onto your mount (doesn't matter weather it is the Build and go or the WoW-Pooof-gone-method) and fly away is an opportunity. But, like i said i for myself have just to little information about how open-PvP will work.
    Well in terms of flying for those griefplayers (they tend to call themselves real php players) flying would be less of a concern.... since in that housing-video they say "you can teleport to your house at any time from anywhere in the world." What would mean: since u get your house pretty early on while your are still lowlevel, you can just try to get out of fight and teleport to your house. If that is how it works i pretty much believe that you would see more posts about people teleporting away then hit the mount and fly away.

    Anyways.... flying is great to me. Getting through the world with both feet on the ground is fun and adventuress..... once. But being able to buy a fighterjet or a cargovessel-gunship-type of aircraft would be pretty awesome later on, maybe even in the first expansion. But there are numerous ways to keep People from excessive use of Flying mounts besides stupid invisible walls.... think of SAM-sites (which could be outmaneuvered to some degrees) or Dominion/Exiles flying patrols that cover an area, so that there are only a few corridors where you can fly safely. Evrything else goes with a risk.... like it should be in a hostile new world with two forces fighting over it.

    The abillity to fly adds a third dimension to open world experience, and of course open PvP too. ;-)
  19. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    That does raise an interesting point. They're said that players will be able to teleport from wherever they are to their home plot. They haven't said how you would get back, but ideally you'd be able to teleport right back to where you were. There might be some limitations to how often you can do this, but assuming you could do it at will while out of combat, wouldn't this be at least as much of a "get out of jail free card" as being able to mount up and take to the air?

    Assuming that this is the case, that you would be able to teleport to and from your home plot whenever you wanted to escape combat or just go AFK, then wouldn't that make redundant one of the major PvP-only criticisms of flying mounts?
  20. Zyfreit

    Zyfreit Cupcake

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    I'm in favor of flying mounts. I really enjoyed them in WOW, and I think that Blizzard did an ok job with them in BC and WotLK by locking them out for most if not all of the leveling process initially. True they later made it easy to unlock flight for your alts, but that was after the initial big rush.

    With Wildstar being designed to allow flying mounts, and fairly early on it sounds, I think they can make it work, without allowing you to bypass 75% of the zone by jumping around on your mount.

    The ideas I like:

    Flight has to be unlocked per zone.

    How is this accomplished? Two ideas come to mind based on some of the ideas I've seen to make flight more engaging/restricted: air defenses and fuel requirements. Either the main questline involves removing enemy air defenses allowing you freedom of flight, or the questline unlocks the ability to refuel your mount in that zone. The fuel idea is kind of an issue, because it would suck to have to stop in every zone, or every other zone to refuel. Maybe in the Wildstar world the questline is "reactivating the Eldan _____________ technology" that gives "wireless power to your mount within the zone. Both of these require you to hoof it through the zone the first time, but once it's cleared, gives you free mobility.

    Max level zones need anti-air defense to keep us on our toes!

    I remember flying the same loop in WotLK gathering herbs for hours. Queue up some music, a DPS spot in a dungeon, and just go numb from boredom. The most fun I had flying in WoW was definitely the bombing run quests in BC in Ogrila. Having to dodge cannon fire or be shot down into hostile territory was fun. It was pretty easy to not get shot down, but still it kept you engaged. I think an air defense system in the Max Level zones would be appropriate to keep players engaged. Even take that further for future implementation make the air defenses fraction controllable, so the Dominion can grab them and gain free flight over the zone while the Exiles have to weave, roll, and evade their way across. They can make it more interesting than just that, but it's an idea.

    Zones can be locked again?

    What if after a few days/weeks the zones you unlocked for flight got locked again requiring a short quest to go take out ________ content event to open up the zone again? Mildly annoying possibly, but also, depending on the zone layout, forces high level characters to land and be visible to lower level players. It would be fun if Settlers could build anti-air PVP towers in some of these zones as well.

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