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Smallest number of classes needed for a strong MMO launch?

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by TarkeCat, Jun 6, 2013.

  1. TarkeCat

    TarkeCat Cupcake-About-Town

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    With speculation on the new classes being added to Wildstar I started thinking how many are actually needed? Given the restrictive skill allocation system lets say that hypothetically each role(tank, melee/ranged dps, CC, healer, hybrid) can be filled by the current classes. Would it bother you if the game launched with its current class count?
    If so/not what is the 'perfect' number of classes keeping in mind balance/keeping classes unique/interesting.
  2. Mierelle

    Mierelle Cupcake-About-Town

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    3

    Looking at basically all classes in any RPG they have their roots in one of the archetypes: Warrior, Rogue, Mage.
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  3. TarkeCat

    TarkeCat Cupcake-About-Town

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    Would be quite nice to see a MMO taking such a route however if the system is so minimal then perhaps a 0 class system with 3 trees representing each archetype would be more appropriate?
  4. Sivenom

    Sivenom New Cupcake

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    With 4 now, there are 2 tanks, 2 healers. We have 2 ranged and 2 melee.

    You can ship now and be at a good selection of roles and playstyles. (8)
    That being said, I noticed a trend over the last few years that there is an inclusion of a pet class.
    So it would be recommended you add one of those.
    There is also a trend in some games I've played (WoW SWTOR Rift GW2) that there is a class that can fit all 3 roles. (if you exclude secondary class SWTOR; it may not be so any more in Rift)
    So I personally would recommend that as well.

    So the suggested additives would be a class with pets, and a class that can heal and tank.

    In my opinion
  5. TarkeCat

    TarkeCat Cupcake-About-Town

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    On the most part I do agree that would be good to match the current playstyles offered by other MMO however would a pet class work in a game like Wildstar with the combat system the way it is i can imagine micromanaging a pet so it doesn't stand in all the telegraphs either a pain in the arse or requiring very solid AI.
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  6. crowsong

    crowsong Cupcake-About-Town

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    Technically 0, it depends on the model of MMO.
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  7. TarkeCat

    TarkeCat Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well for arguments sake with Wildstar what would you personally be happy with?
  8. eselle8

    eselle8 Well-Known Cupcake

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    6, because that's what the game has been balanced for and is what's most likely to play well without extensive delays to rework things.

    If we're talking more broadly, it's important to me for there to be a couple of styles of ranged DPS that feel distinct enough from one another that I can log onto my alt and feel the difference. Throw in a couple of styles of tanking, a couple of styles of melee DPS, a couple of styles of healing, with one of the healers being capable of being specced as a hybrid who can do decent DPS, and that will satisfy most of my friends. If it's possible to create a character that's mostly built for control and support, I'd be over the moon, even if there's just one style of that.

    Seems like WildStar will have all of that and then some. I don't really need there to be a dozen classes to find a game enjoyable, especially not if some of those dozen classes feel very similar.
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  9. Bolt

    Bolt Cupcake

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    I think launching small isn't a terrible idea. Do what you can handle. As long as you have the fundamental archetypes listed above, and variety within them, I think you are good. Alt-o-holics might not enjoy this as much, not sure as I'm not a huge alt person.

    In regards to WildStar, I'm fine with 6.
  10. TarkeCat

    TarkeCat Cupcake-About-Town

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    In regards to alts how permanent would spec choices have to be(in say small class system with very broad spec choices) to make you consider rerolling an alt (eg say specs are locked in/hidden behind a heavy barrier of some kind say gold) or would you still roll multiple alts if you can completely restart spec a character at no cost
  11. TarkeCat

    TarkeCat Cupcake-About-Town

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    Since im asking others of their thoughts, personally i would like a 6-8 class system (currently what i beilive Wildstar is btw) since i find the less classes there are the more diverse they tend to be plus it makes balancing far easier for the devs and if needed further classes can be added through expansions.
  12. eselle8

    eselle8 Well-Known Cupcake

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    If I'm able to respec quickly and frequently, without major cost, I'll only make one character of that class. I only have two characters in RIFT, a mage and a rogue. I enjoy a couple of different builds within each, but it's easy enough to shift between roles. If a game has easy respecs and no actual classes, like The Secret World, I'll only make one character. I find that an interesting choice, but I actually like having a little more encouragement than that to make an alt, especially in a game that has multiple races.

    If the barrier between specs is quite firm and respeccing wouldn't be viable more than once every few months or so, I'd think about rolling an alt for the other spec of that class if both playstyles appealed to me. I thought about doing that back in the old days in WoW, but ultimately I decided that I'd rather have a warlock than a second priest. I was very happy about that decision when dual specs were introduced.
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  13. Jojin

    Jojin Cupcake-About-Town

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    In regards to Wildstar, while we may only have six (6) classes, the limited skill set lets players play more quasi class characters.

    In other MMO's your class pretty much defines you in terms of what you can do. If you chose a healer like a priest, your focus was healing or a mage, your focus was damage. However, from the reveals and information thus far, we can see a single class in Wildstar can fill multiple rolls and even jobs. For example the warrior can tank, dps or be CC focused.

    So while we might only have 6 classes, how we equip our characters and select or skills actually turns out to make a myriad of what some might think of in terms of typical classes.
  14. TarkeCat

    TarkeCat Cupcake-About-Town

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    I hope the system works as well as you stated. I am really looking forward to either more dev speak vids coming out or the NDA being lifted so I can analyze build crafting in this game.
  15. Mat'hir Uth Gan

    Mat'hir Uth Gan Cupcake-About-Town

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    As long as a Tech based Stalker can raid tank, I'll be happy. Hopefully, he doesn't get shoved off into offtank only territory.
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  16. kanochi

    kanochi Cupcake-About-Town

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    PSO, PSO2 are launched with the 3 classes, Hunter, Ranger, Tech and I always loved those games. = P I don't think you really "need" classes for a game to be successful just need good game mechanics.
  17. Dayor Knight

    Dayor Knight New Cupcake

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    I think there are the four basic archetypes: Tank, Ranged Damage, Melee Damage, Healer.

    You really need these 4 roles to be fulfilled in a group based dungeon crawler. While one could argue you don't absolutely need to have both ranged and melee damage dealers, the play-style difference is large enough to make it something that is both expected and required for many gamers.

    I personally feel that 8 classes is the ideal number to begin with. You have 4 base classes that all excel at their given role, but don't stretch much beyond that, and then 4 classes that are more "hybrid" in their focus, allowing for some flexibility in play-style. The Paladin from WoW is a great example of this done correctly, as is the Druid from both WoW and EverQuest. Multi-Classing in DDO was a great option offered to players, as it allowed them to tailor make their class and play-style entirely. Rogue/Ranger/Barbarians made solid evasion Tanks for most of the game, for example.

    Give players enough variety in play-style that no class should play too much like another, but it also allow people to have a clear understanding of where a class belongs. One of the biggest problems with having too many classes in a game is that it becomes rather difficult for others players to know exactly where to put them. In the original Everquest this was a big issue for classes like the Beast Master and even the Shaman... they might have been very good overall, but they didn't seem to have a place in a group that wasn't far better filled by someone else.

    Overspecialization can be quite limiting, but over-generalization creates a lack of dynamic play. That is one of the big problems I ran into in GW2 in PvE in that no class felt as though it could really fill a "role". While that might have been their intention, it still made the actual dungeons themselves less fun as no one really knew what to do other than "hit it until dies" while dodging the red circles of doom. Usually this meant lots of dying for me.

    A powerful way of making classes distinct is with a secondary role. Wildstar seems to be moving a lot of that into the "Path" system. Where as in D&D you needed a Rogue to open locked doors, you now have the scientist. You'd need a Ranger to scout out the terrain and find secret paths, but now you have the Explorer. Will this turn out to be a good thing or a bad thing? From the presentation, I think it's actually a really good idea overall. It eliminates the need to balance utility abilities/skills with combat abilities/skills.

    I still think 8 would be ideal but at the same time I just want the game to come out already! I'd also like to see a few more added paths as time goes on. Something like a "Naturalist" and a "Mechanist", creating paths that tied more closely tied in with the world as the story evolves.This would also give us more incentive to roll alt characters.

    Just some thoughts that have been kicking around in my head about this topic for a while.... apologies for the ramble. :p
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  18. TarkeCat

    TarkeCat Cupcake-About-Town

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    Dont apologize thanks for formatting your thoughts so clearly.
  19. Outburstz

    Outburstz Cupcake-About-Town

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    4 has been the lowest number for a game I have joined

    Warrior , Assassin , Ranger, Mage
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  20. Inv1cted

    Inv1cted Cupcake-About-Town

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    Can I get some sources on this; I understand that all classes will likely have a CC I've seen no indication that the old school 'dedicated' CCer/'support' is a viable option, I've only seen tank/heals/dps/pvp talents and abilities.

    The combat isn't as huge a deviation from the EQ model as I think you think it is; Mobs still hit for white damage, there are still targeted spells and you can still tab target. Also from the PvP podcast and other unpostable sources it's pretty much confirmed one of the 'unrevealed' classes has alteast the option of using pets.
    Also as far as pets standing in the fire goes you can just make pets take far less damage from AoEs so if they get targeted because they pull aggro they drop but they can't be cleaved to death.

    I think 6 is fine, I know other MMOs launched with more but you tend to just ge lot of overlap in that case like spriest/affliction or destro/mage pretty much being the same.
    However on the topic of that I'm a little concerned that neither the 'spell sword' archetype or a DoTs and drains focused ranged toon is in (from what i've seen so far).

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