So, with this C.R.E.D.D system?

Oh yea, the majority always knows best right? People are so generally well informed about issues they have opinions about. I mean look no further than Egypt in the last few years - the masses really have their stuff together there. I mean, vote one guy in and then oust him later. Clearly they made the correct decision in the first place!

Guess the world is still round too - MIRITE?!??!

You do what the majority wants all the time and you end up with WoW Cataclysm.

I actually like it, if its about the cost of $15 of gems in GW2 through the gem exchange, I'll be fine with it since I probably will never pay sub fee.

We're talking about game development here. If there are enough players that love raiding, and are willing to support that play style, then they should easily be able to fund development of those features. Why should the majority of players have to pay into funding features that they do not want to play?

Ok.

Because Raiding is similar to all that yard work you always planned on getting done, that book you are gonna eventually get around to writing, all that exercise you will one day breakdown and stick too or those 1000s of other things everyone thinks about constantly but never gets around to doing.

The majority of players will never go on Raids or even manage to collect full sets of Armor, but the fact that they are there is what keeps a lot of those players playing. All the time people spent planning out their perfect set of gear and trying it on in the previewer even though in true reality most of them wont even come close to collecting it.

Its the carrot that keeps ppl playing and having something to look forward to. In GW2 the only carrot is armor/weapon skins and all of them are within reach of everyone. So nobody really cares that you have a full set of flaming CoF armor because everyone can spend 3 days of speed runs to get it. Legendaries were the one true out of reach item that everyone could hope for but then they made it so you could sell them on TP and ruined it. Skins is all the End game there is to GW2 and getting the most unique ones could be considered winning and with the Gem shop GW2 is by your own definition P2W.

You think you are in the majority with the "I just wanna have fun and don't need to do raids or compete with everyone" but you are not.(I used to think the same thing! ) The majority of players want nothing more than to be able to show off to everyone else and that is what will keep them playing even if they have no actual chance of achieving it.

I think that's a myth perpetuated by the people who do raid to justify their excesses. Just as the financial 1% believe that they're doing God's work by providing an example for the huddled masses to look up to, as they take money out of their pockets to line their own.

If the majority of players do aspire to raid, then they will chip in to the raid fund, if they don't, they won't, let people vote with their wallets.

Maybe, but raids are only that carrot if you like raid-flavored carrots. Most players don't. If enough players like raid flavored carrots then that can be their carrot and they can fund those raid's development, but I don't see why ALL players should have to fund raid development if most players don't care.

Oh sure, lets just let the people who want to have police protection, fireman, hospitals and a military pay taxes, if they don't, they won't. Vote with your wallet!

And you are wrong, Everyone wants to bite the raid-flavored carrot, otherwise they wouldn't be playing an MMORPG. Nearly all players that would say they don't like raiding would still go on occasion if the chance was offered and they were able.

In GW2 the vast majority of max level players spent their time
Zerging the lvl 80 zones for Karma
Habitually killing The Toe-nail of Jormag
Speed running dungeons
Playing the TP
Playing the Mystic Forge
Or WvWing

They were doing these things to get Legendaries, which the majority of players would say they intend to do, even though most of them probably never gather together even 20% of the mats. Its the thought when you see that kewl Twilight Sword and that one day you will have it that kept people playing the game.
In GW2 this died out quickly because even Legendaries became to easy to get.

With large Raids, extremely rare gear and high gear progression you keep players playing the game. If there is something they feel like they can get to truly stand out amongst their peers they will happily keep grinding away no matter how unlikely it is they will actually get it.

The claw of Jormag, Not actually Jormag

So You're the one that always corrects everyone in chat!

Kinda, given it is true, people will end up seeing Jormag and be like ''I thought we killed this guy before, we farm him WTH!!?!?!''
Misinformation is bad for the whole

Yes but when you kill his claw I am willing to bet a little bit of him dies as well......poor little claw.... getting shot with cannons...getting his...*sniff* wings smashed off....then we all....just...jus......smashed his foot till he died.....oh gawd Jormag I'm sorry

Eh, he knew exactly what he was getting when he signed his contract to become the servant of Jormag. he waived any rights he had.

I just wish everyone would have escorted the golems like they were supposed to!
It would have been quicker for him.....easier on him...and I wouldn't have this guilt
Instead we all just stood on that hill in a group...drawing it out....slowly pelting him in the face with rockets...I think I need to make a minute...

Do you really not see the difference between raiding and first responders, or are you presenting a comically satirical character who is completely out of touch with common sense, like Borat or something?

Ok, I'm pretty far convinced on the "playing a ridiculously satirical character" front.

In the off chance that you are being even a little serious, no, that is not why people play MMOs. I bet if you could poll every MMO player at least 20% or so have no idea what a raid even is. I have no real interest in raiding. I might hop into one if it were available, once, but if I were given a free set of raid gear an an open invitation to raid every single night I'd probably only play once or twice. I would by no means miss their existence were they not there (as is the case in GW2). People play MMOs for all sorts of reasons, most of which have no relationship to raiding whatsoever.

Not really. Most players would get a Legendary if they could, that doesn't mean that all players are seriously striving for them, or would play less if Legendaries did not exist in the game. I haven't ruled it out entirely, and have many of the more casual components to make one if I wanted, but it's not as if every activity I do is a step in that direction, I play because I enjoy playing and realistically even once I'm able to afford a Legendary, I might not bother. I think the Sunrise sword is pretty damned sweet, but I don't think "oh, I've got to play for thousands of hours until I get one of those things!" I just got a Cobalt as a drop and it's pretty awesome too. It's a light source!

I don't think you ever actually kill the Claw, I think you just drive him off (to return in 3-5 hours). I know that the other lesser dragons you just chase off, and I think the event text indicate that you've "driven him away." There's always so much going on when it ends I haven't really noticed where he goes.

That tactic is pretty much dead, btw. It's all golems now.

^you are really a ridiculous person! You started the RL political references and only realize how dumb that is when someone else says it.

If you are just going to continue to state your own preferences and claim they are everyones then you can just have fun with that. Try actually talking to players in the online game you are playing and you will find all of them want to obtain super rareness status in some form or another, even you.

I am also done with the arguing for sport that you are obviously engaging in since it is pointless.

Remember though you are basing everything on nothing more than your own speculation.

CBT!

Exactly, It's what you think, as many other people think many different things, We don't see where they go because they jump back and fall out of site then disappear, same for Teq. We know the Shatterer dies though so we can assume he other dragons do too, theres not really proof saying otherwise.

Mine was a bit more general than all that. I deliberately didn't go with actual political figures or parties, but with a more general "red team/blue team." Your argument seems to be that raids are something that ALL players need, whether they realize it or not. I believe that is a ridiculous premise. Only players who have any interest in raiding need raids to exist, for everyone else they are a developer distraction at best, and potentially far worse. It makes perfect sense to allow the community to decide how much, if any, of their money goes into developing that content.

Lol. You are seriously the one saying that?

Shatterer definitely doesn't die. I watch him fly away last night after the fight ended. Next time you fight him, look up as the battle ends (I'd missed it the first few dozen times too). I'm pretty sure that each fight against the Dragon's Champions is a more or less canonical encounter, you drive them off, but they rebuild their strength and return, rather than being created anew each iteration. That's why the chain event text for Frostgourge says "you've driven away Jormag's Lieutenant," rather than "you've slain Jormag's Lt."

No it makes no sense, if you allowed the community to decide how a game is developed the game would never get developed.

Yes I am because like I said earlier I actually think more like you and would rather just have fun playing a game without as much competition and far out of reach near impossible to obtain items and huge 8-10hr long dungeons. But having spent a good amount of years playing multiple mmo's I know that I am NOT part of the majority.

This just proves the point that you are sport arguing and yes unfortunately for me you got me to bite once again. But know I am going to go to bed and call it quits with you since this whole thread is completely derailed from the original topic.

Why not? I mean, obviously you wouldn't just let people argue until a consensus were reached, but if the idea is that players need new content to keep playing the game, which I believe is true, then why not have a system in which players can pay into the game's development, like with a subscription fee, only with the ability to determine what content that money would go towards? The most popular features would get the most effort put towards them.

No, both of those views are merely your opinions on the matter, and I've been playing MMOs at least as long as you have and have come to different opinions. Given how few players actually do raid relative to those that do not, and how very successful MMOs have been without any raiding in them at all, I think it's perfectly reasonable to believe that raids are merely one possible gameplay element among many, and no more important than any other.

I think it's important that you give people things to DO once they hit level cap, and that can involve raiding, but it can also involve PvP, or a worthwhile alt experience, or solo dungeons, or small team dungeons, or open world activities, any number of different things.

Fair enough, it wasn't really so much an "argument" as a lecture.

Go to the end of the video, he goes to fly off and literally explodes. Know what you are saying before arguing.