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So, with this C.R.E.D.D system?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Gunghoe, Aug 19, 2013.

  1. Zubbulon

    Zubbulon Cupcake

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    well I am at least good for a LOL and No 1 at something. :)

    Its your opinion. I don't see it that way.

    I am not naïve enough to think that they ONLY want the 1%. I am saying they are catering to the 1% that will bring the next 20% in the game. I am reading and listening to everything they say. Does that mean I know everything? nope, but I do listen.

    They were asked (can't remember where) : What will be your answer to the whiner that wants the epic sword that only drop in 40 men raid. Short answer: do the raid.

    Whiner :"Ya but I don't have time for it or don't care to do raids but I still want it!!! /cry. "
    Carbine: "you don't raid, you don't get the sword. We have other stuff for ya. Pvp, wargames, Housing, Adventure, ... you name it. (Obviously not Warplot) Your not happy. Go to those other games ."

    I have heard Gaffney say so several times. He also said that he's an elitist and that the game is designed to turn average Joe Shmo into a raider. Telegraph and all. Telegraph is a raid/dungeon mechanic. it will start at lvl 1. 5 types of telegraph colors.

    You and I Bonehead don't see P2W in the same light.
    I see P2W as a game that sell you that epic sword for cold hard cash. It a f2P but if you don't pay, you don't get the sword and you loose.

    I'll talk about Vanilla wow and the gold buyer. heck I'll go deeper then that. There were players that PAID to LEVEL. You could always spot them fast because, you had that Lvl 60 with the best gear available on AH that didn't know his class. I asked a fully blue/purple geared lvl 60 hunter to drop a freeze trap. Freeze trap? he answered... nuff said. In the raid I was in, those got the boot real fast with a L2P notice or they didn't get in at all. Those that bought the epic sword that made their gear level par to do the raid AND knew their class stayed in the raid and got better gear for it. You have to remember that the boe epic sword were scarce since they were world drop or rare LBRS and UBRS dungeon drops AND very expensive AND not as good as any raid drop. Since most of the Dev from wildstar came from vanilla wow, I am expecting gear progression to be close to Vanilla. That is why for me, selling CREDD is not P2W. the EPIC sword will be bop drop, they may throw in a few boe rare drop in raids also. The big ?: Craftatble but that is an other subject all to itself.

    I have no problem with the CREDD system. It will IMHO make the game better since Carbine will make the profits and that will in turns help them pay for the dev that will put more content IN the game(hopefully but as you said I am naïve). Gold farmers don't contribute to the game.

    I respect your position and hope you can see mine.

    I also agree that should wildstar go f2p, CREDD are out the door and micro-transaction for housing in. Question is: will it? It took Swtor 1 year to go f2p and the end game was <REDACTED> and they didn't and still don't fix bug and .... Should Carbine dish out a good game, might take them longer(remember I am naïve). I get the feeling your mad that its not going to be F2P at launch.

    I would be suspicious of a game that would be F2P at launch or offer a lifetime sub. Champion online and Star Trek did and both were bad. fyi, I was not so naïve to buy that. ;)
    BonusStage likes this.
  2. Zubbulon

    Zubbulon Cupcake

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    Very well said. ty
  3. Zubbulon

    Zubbulon Cupcake

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    Listen to the unicorn duck shadow puppet episode 13.

    They said Gaffney was ask that exact question and he stopped the interview, said it was a good question and he'll look into it.
  4. Gunghoe

    Gunghoe Cupcake-About-Town

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    The viability for people to buy these credds, maybe a bit more gold than an average player can make a month, but the thing that is still Niggling in the background is that the people that will want the credd will be limited to the thirty days to make the money to buy it. EG the people willing to buy it. Most of the other people should not give too much of an attention to it's existence. That being said, i think the people that will want the credd will indeed be able to acquire it with in the means of possibility, or else most of the credd bought would not sell, because the available gold to buy will not be too big because the people that will make use of it will not have an stratospheric amount of gold. This in turn will make the people willing to buy it control the sealing of the cost. But with that in mind, it will be interesting how important this idea will be in the venture of credd. The people selling it will have to be priced to the point that they want people to buy it. I would assume most people would want the gold NOW instead of waiting for the eventual increase in the worth. Considering what you can sell in the auction house and materials for, that will definitely play a huge roll. Basically, I do not think you will be able to quest/ or grind mobs to be able to take advantage of the credd system.

    You will however need to be able to play the market to the point that may be above average. Depending on what you consider to be fun, you could make this an ability to buy it every month. As long as things that people want are also player created. It will most likely not be like Diablo 3's acution house, nor GW2. Because the people that will be willing to buy it, will most likely be the people that need that month, other people will be just doing their thing to promote their character, and not save money in real life. At least i would assume so.

    But the amount of gold will inversely go up, maybe at the beginning at launch you may be able to quest for the Credd, but when things are going to become market savvy, i think that you will have to play the auction house more than most other games so you could potentially buy the Credd. But ass the Golds value shrinks the other commodeties, if done right will grow in value.

    They will need some Huge gold sinks that will never run it's course and be not needed, They will also have to have Item sinks, and Repair cost will have to be substantial to make things remain viable for people to buy the credd. As long as there is something that people will spend loads of currency that every one Needs or really wants The inflation should not be as big of a deal to people that only want to buy the Credds in game.

    I really hope the economy is healthy, and does not skyrocket like most MMORPGs and stays steady, and does not steadily increase for people end up having to just sub. At this point i really hope people will be able to take advantage of the Credd system.
  5. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    ^ as far as I understand yes, I believe Gaf answered this in the interview.
  6. Gunghoe

    Gunghoe Cupcake-About-Town

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    I just really hope it works, if not, it is there to basically very seldom people get a free month for people to get a break from that sub fee. The fact that it is 5 dollars more, makes the devs want it to become viable, they can potentially make 25% more money if it is viable. I really hope it works out for them, so they can have this game remain a sub for a long time. For me the fact that they could potentially make more money from these sales than a sub, makes me think that they would have a reason to balance the game in favor of it.

    On the other hand, the peoples quality of life would not be as good as it could have been if it takes for ever just to get One item they want for their house.
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  7. Kalmander

    Kalmander Well-Known Cupcake

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    That is a very real problem... For the CREDDs to work, there must be a high demand for gold. If the demand is too high though, the people not buying CREDDs will be really far behind (even worse if they have to use the gold to get CREDDs). That's great for a F2P game (work like a maniac for your stuff!!), but not so good for a subscription game... If everything takes forever to get in a subscription game, people will get bored and leave...

    It sounds like F2P mechanics in a P2P game... Could be a dangerous combination.

    I also really hope it works, but I'm just not sure... It works great in EVE because everything is destroyable. There are no items that last forever like in other games. The gold sinks are just too steep that you always need more money.
  8. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    sorry, but I'm going to nitpick on extreme case words ;)..."everything" shouldn't take forever to get yes, but "some things" should take a good while to obtain. Any person that goes into this game thinking they are going to get "everything", has a huge hill to climb and is setting themselves up for disappointment. Play the game, get what you can get, and if you (in general ) have OCD, then see a doctor and get a prescription.
  9. Kalmander

    Kalmander Well-Known Cupcake

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    Yeah, that's true, but it's going to be one hell of a trick to balance it out. Too much stuff that requires immense amount of gold, and it will feel like you need to buy gold to get ahead. Too little, then why buy gold? Also, if you do not make enough gold for regular stuff, it will push you to buy gold (which could be bad in a subscription game). If you do make too much gold, then why sell CREDDs?

    It's just going to be one heck if a balancing act to make it work properly... Hope they can make it, for the good of the game.
  10. lusciifi

    lusciifi Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well they have talked about raid crafting drops that might be BiS for a tier but not in every slot and not every tier. In other words, if you feel like spending a ton of money and arnt raiding the content yourself you will still be able to get 1 or 2 top tier pieces. Spending a large sum of gold will probably also be the easiest way to gear up for raids and warplots.
  11. Zubbulon

    Zubbulon Cupcake

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    I read a few of your post, your got quite a pen going there Gunghoe. I get the impression that you see the market as a very static entity. I see it as dynamic and it will regulate itself unless Carbide is always putting its nose into it like an elephant in a glass shop. They seem like an intelligent bunch, I doubt they will.

    Players wont be CREDD only or Sub only. That will depend on supply and demand. That will vary but it will stabilize fast enough. Imagine price of CREDD going real cheap. More player will buy them and prices will go up, and the reverse is true too.

    I'll tell you what I will do and I assume a lot of player will also. I will buy the box and a 3 month worth of sub to get the small discount.
    1 - In the 4 month of play I bought, the market will stabilize
    2- I'll know if the game is worth investing in it (I am here so its a given I am really interested and hopeful and willing to pay a full 1 year sub).
    3- I will also know how much gold I can grind in a month comfortably
    4- I will do an analysis of the Pricing as such:
    a- If I can grind the price of CREDD in a month WOOT --» Play 2 Pay
    b- If I can buy a CREDD every 2 month? WOOt 6 month of sub + 6 month of CREDD < 1 year sub
    15*6 =90 + goose egg < 15*11 = 132
    c- I can get CREDD every 3 month? Woot 8 month of sub + 4 month of CREDD < 1 year sub
    15*8 =120 + goose egg < 15*11 = 132

    d- If I can grind gold for sub. woot I pay to play and I will pay 132$ for the 12 month. I am already ready to pay it so not skin off my nose.

    You seem to want to analyse every aspect of the income/expenses and speculate on the global economy. IMHO, you will speculate for a long time since none but Carbine know the system. Remember that its their world and they can adjust the drop rate of desired items, my 0.0001% and it will impact prices on the AH. Back when I played Wow, I saw blizz to it all the time. subtle but still they did it.
  12. Drokk

    Drokk Cupcake-About-Town

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    It's going to be a disaster. Cash shops always are. Of course there are people who eat up this nonsense of 'it gives players freedom and choice of how to pay'. No, it's a way for Carbine and NCSoft to rip you off above and beyond a simple sub. They'll never balance it out. The in-game economy will be broken, players will feel compelled to buy gold in order to get the very best (which is what the company is counting on), and it will all unravel in a horrifying mess and end in f2p within...I'll give it a year and a half.
  13. Zubbulon

    Zubbulon Cupcake

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    For some obscure reason I can't edit the post

    12* x 11 = 132

    no* skin off my nose
  14. Gunghoe

    Gunghoe Cupcake-About-Town

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    yeah, we understand Gear, my qualm is if i cant possibly make an epic house with out buying gold. With out the mechanic of Credd, then how would this grind for this epic house item could have been. The worst thing you can do is make it like Mechwarrior, with out the special currency, and you buy the Cbills the grind for the free players is ridiculous, because they want you to buy the currency. I just hope that everything works out fine.

    The main thing is, as said above by my self and one other, they will not want to loose people because it takes months to get a Mount or housing item. They will balance for us the subscribers and not for the viability of Credd, then whats the point of even having it. All i can see is you may be able to seldom save 15 bucks a few times a year. There will be no way to make this game enjoyable if you "really do not have access to everything" by that i mean, some things will take an eternity to acquire. If some of the items feel like how it feels when you grind for decent to good items in a F2P game.

    Sure let there be some grind, but for some reason I feel that this may make it feel like some of these items are extremely hard to save up money for them specifically for the Credd.

    Even if they say that this balance happens because this is the way it should be with out relation to Credd, some people will still blame it's existence for taking them so long to get this epic toilet, with the talking poo from Conker's Bad Fur Day.

    So basically it is either going to be over glamorized, to get people to buy the box thinking that they could play for free after they buy the box. Or if it is the real deal and it is possible to save money up for each Credd, then things will have to cost as much or more than what the credd is worth.

    Hopefully they test the Credd system out before launch, with out Real money. I just really do not want to feel like i have to buy credd to make my house look the way i want it to look, or go broke because of repair bills. Yeah they have the right to sell gold, and it is nice of them to make it a player contolled market but, When they make the game they should not balance anything in consideration of the Credd system. Just make it a bonus to save money here and there, with out consideration for it. Basically I plan on buying 2-3 as soon as I can at launch, and then wait for the market to die.
    Kalmander likes this.
  15. Bonehead

    Bonehead Cupcake

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    And we get that you are a fanboy who does not like dissent. Guess you aint counting all the pro cash shop and sub posts.
  16. Gunghoe

    Gunghoe Cupcake-About-Town

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    I get that, and I hope they just do not balance the game in hopes to increase the sales of Credd. Basically what it comes down to for me, at first when i created this thread, before thinking about it. I wanted to have the ability to just grind for credd. Now Im more comfortable to pay a sub, and do not want to have the credd influence the balance of how much things will cost at NPC shops for housing and other things like that. But if they choose to have every aspect player controlled, like credd. And every housing item is crafted, instead of bought off some NPC or Market like they have in the current build, this will be viable. But if they insist on having things be sold at a fixed rate and balance for Credd, then things will be horrible for the people that do not like tedious grinds for the sake of an occasional free month.

    For me to be extremely confident that Credd will have little recourse in the balancing of the economy, the economy 100% will have to be player controlled, Very little NPC shops have anything of value, everything that would be worth something should be Player made. And decided by the community how much the epic housing item will be worth, just like they do with credd.

    But if the NPCs sell that Epic mount, or that epic housing item, or that epic warplot item, then this Credd system will basically be extremely hard to obtain. Make the entire economy player controlled, Sans a few things the Shops will sell.

    For Credd to find a decent balance, the entire economy must be player controlled. Crafting epic mounts, Crafting Epic housing items, Crafting all but solo/pvp/raid rewards. And repair bills be the only gold sink. IF craftsmen will have the control, those items will also go up with inflation similar to the inflation of credd. and all will be great. Because you too will be able to make items to sell for gold that will make enough for credd because EVERYTHING sell able will go up in worth. After the economy settles from the launch price gouging and what not.

    Hell if crafting has that much influence, Like fallen earth, then i will be one happy crafter and actually craft in this game, besides just farming mats to sell like i did in rift.

    Economy controlled by players is Far greater than Carbine controlling the economy. Especially because the Credds worth is controlled by the players and not the company.
  17. Zubbulon

    Zubbulon Cupcake

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    its getting late and I will try to be brief.

    I see the economy to be set between players and NPC. you need the NPC to take some of the gold out. I am pretty sure they got economist on the staff that will check it and they can adjust it in minor ways.

    then there is the player economy. free for all Taylorism at its best. all those will get in equilibrium. I too might finally do some crafting should it be worth it. The fact that you want to Play to pay is fine, but I don't see how you could be sure you can unless you can play for 8 hours/day.

    Just had an idea.
    1- Carbine wants to sell CREDD. how much? that is the question, they make 20$ every time.
    2- players wont buy CREDD if it exchange 20$ + sub fee for a day's grind.
    3- there are the impatient shmo that will. (I hate those, they screw my theories)

    you want to know how much a CREDD will be worth, don't look at the market, look at the sellers and only them.

    I would not sell a credd that cost me 20$ + my sub fee for at the very least 50% of what I can grind in a month. I am greedy, I would sell it for 100% of 1 month of grinding for ME not them.
    1 CREDD = 1 month of grinding for the seller.

    So don't do the math, only look at who buys and sell. they will set the price.

    My guestimate is that it will take around 20 hours of quest/grinding/AHing to buy 1 CREDD. that is net. forget repair cost and all that jazz, Carbine will make it so X% of players can play to pay. I expect it at 15%

    I am a bit stumped because I feel that the 1%ers of other games might be in this game might be the 15%ers

    I hope I made sense. I didn't proof read myself and will probably hate myself in the morning for not doing it.

    Zubb

    p.s. I tried to be brief. didn't make it
  18. Revoltech

    Revoltech Cupcake

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    Okay, so what I'm afraid what would happen with this C.R.E.D.D system is that people will eventually jack up the in-game currency prices and people will have hell of a time trying to earn their gold to buy C.R.E.D.D and just soon give up. If I'm missing something, or in simpler words, if I'm wrong, please tell me. I'm not sure how this could possibly work. It seems so useless.
  19. Kalmander

    Kalmander Well-Known Cupcake

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    It's a very real possibility... We have to see how the economy works out. For the CREDDs to work, the economy has to have a certain number of things working together. Large gold sinks to make gold a desirable currency, but not large enough to break people that do not trade CREDDs. Also decent income so people can actually buy what they need, and buy CREDDs. But not so much or people would have no need to sell CREDDs...

    I'm not sure how they are going to manage that... If we take the economy in WoW as an example of a similar economy, I do not see how a CREDD system could work properly in WoW. Gold is quite easy to make at later levels...

    I just do not see how the mechanic is going to work at this time... It will be really complicated for it to work if the economy is anything close to the economy of other similar MMOs...
  20. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    It has nothing to do with him being a "fanboy" or not liking dissent. It has everything to do with you doing nothing but slandering the system and being unfair. Repeatedly saying its a "cash grab" is the epitome of stupidity. The War Z was a cash grab. Based on the information we currently have Wildstar is anything but. Every single payment model has pro's and con's, why don't you argue those (like it matters, its not going to change at this point) instead of relentlessly spouting off your hate campaign? Are you really this upset that you may actually have to pay for your entertainment?
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