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So, with this C.R.E.D.D system?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Gunghoe, Aug 19, 2013.

  1. Grimnar40k

    Grimnar40k Cupcake-About-Town

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    Not sure I'm reading this right but if you're suggesting that Wildstar is P2W in any way I just can't agree or understand where you're getting this from. P2W in my mind is when a game offers a cash shop with items that give buffs and bonuses to things like XP(which is arguable), but more importantly damage boosts and things like that which have no place in any game imo.

    This system is simply trading Time = Money so there is absolutely no unfair advantage in any way. If I have money I buy gold, if you have time you grind gold. We both use gold to buy items in game just like everyone else. There is no exclusive set of items that my money gives me access to that would give me an advantage over someone who had more time than myself and wanted to go the F2P route.

    Sorry I just don't see any P2W here in any way. There will be no advantage given, period. If someone has $1,000s of dollars to buy CREDD with and in turn get tons of gold then great for Carbine I say. I love that they are making the money for a game they've invested millions in and not some Chinese gold farmers. We all win.
  2. Bnol

    Bnol Cupcake-About-Town

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    Then virtually every MMORPG out today is P2W as they all have gold sellers. Yes, gold sellers are illegal, but that has yet to stop them, so it is smart to address the reality instead of just pointing to a TOS and say we don’t condone it. It is actually quite absurd to stretch the definition of P2W to “you can get non-BIS gear faster than normal players”. All developer commentary leads me to believe BIS gear will be restricted by time/effort in game (raid lockouts and weekly PVP currency caps/rating).

    For anyone with an income, this system is great as one can safely exchange money to avoid grinding with what little time you will have to play the game. For those without, they can use their free time to subsidize their subscription cost. The simple fact is time is money, this system allows all involved to be able to safely exploit what they have available (time or money), while supporting Carbine.
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  3. Furor Tuetonicus

    Furor Tuetonicus Cupcake-About-Town

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    Grimnar, I happen to agree with you completely. I don't see a pay to win scenario happening here, as bonuses to damage, health, etc aren't being sold.

    However, a few players have a point about the ability to receive a cash injection early in a games economy and the effect if could have on that players experience, ie making it considerably easier to the possible expense of others and the economy.

    I personally don't feel that this will be an issue at all, as the amount of gold to purchase CREDDs won't be available in game for a while(barring exploits), and the items which would be purchased by CREDD selling players won't necessarily be available for purchase. There is presumption that there will BoE items, and craft-able raid level items. While distinctly possible, its information we currently don't have.
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  4. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yes, all games are P2W to some extent, especially if you want to ignore the illegality of third party sites.
    However, the question is to what extent.

    Is it like WoW, or is it like Tera?
  5. Kayelia

    Kayelia Cupcake

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    If nothing else, this news is causing quite a stir. Oh well, here's my thoughts on it.

    On it's own, this setup is not pay to win. People having more gold than another is not problematic. What is problematic is what they can buy with that gold. Pay to win gear seems unlikely with a lot of gear sources. I'd be more concerned about what features are setup as massive gold sinks. If one has to sell Credds to afford special powerful abilities or items, then we're looking at pay to win. As of yet, we lack any info to tell.

    In short, if you hear/think "you have to sell credds to really enjoy this game," you're dealing with pay to win.

    The biggest concern for this system is inflation. If wildstar is a house, inflation is the wrecking ball. Credds are completely tied to inflation as the entire purpose is buying time for gold. As gold prices increase, it'll be harder and harder for new and returning players to enter the game without subscribing. New players in particular may have to reach endgame very quickly or loose access to the game. Returning players may not be able to access the game at all without subscribing. This won't be an issue at launch. Give it at least 6 months to a year before it becomes noticeable.

    All in all, I think this really brings the game's value down. Value being "how much one gets for one's money." Carbine has to be one the ball with selling this game's features if they want to have a successful game. It's going to take something big to convince me this game is worth $60 alone. Let alone $60 + Credd hassles.

    (As a small aside, Credd is really an unfortunate name. It's too easy to turn it into "crud." )

    I'm just going to point out that it's not quite as simple as that. There are basically 3 "tiers" of players with Credds: Credd Sellers, Subscribers, and Credd Buyers. Credd Sellers are Subscribers by default as it's stupid for a Credd Seller to pay extra for their own subscription. Given that, Credd Sellers will always have more gold than Subscribers. Subscribers will always have more gold than Credd Buyers.

    To borrow from chess, Credd Sellers are the Kings and Queens. Subscribers are the Knights, Bishops, and Rooks. Credd Buyers are the Pawns. How much of an effect this will have is unknown.

    Edit: Changed "access" to "afford."
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  6. Picobeat

    Picobeat New Cupcake

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    all i can say is im disappointed, i wont burn another 60€ on a game im not sure ill play for real, im not sure ill like it in overal(lvling end game raids etc) nvm paying 15€(in my opinion a bit too much) there will always be other game fortunately to people like me ,unemployed, this is a time where theres a few other promising MMOs, all the best for WildStar =/
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  7. Grimnar40k

    Grimnar40k Cupcake-About-Town

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    exactly, it'll be a non issue early on cause in JGs post the word earned was pretty clear that we won't be buying gold from Carbine, but from actual players so there's no gold being created out of thin air.

    as far as buying items with CREDD I don't think so, or atleast it's not mentioned. Real Money = CREDD and In Game Gold = CREDD and CREDD = In Game Gold and CREDD = Game Time. It will also never exchange hands from player to player and only through the CX center.
  8. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    How is it that you can't tie together gold and AH?
  9. Grimnar40k

    Grimnar40k Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm sorry but I simply don't understand this mentality at all... Carbine is a company that has invested MILLIONS of dollars and years in development and still people will complain that they don't get to simply go download the game for free and play indefinitely for free... It's a business... I just don't get all this entitlement. Sorry I've never asked for anything for free in my life that I didn't at least offer to work for or maybe trade. That's how it works... Go work, earn money, exchange money for things you want. Where the hell did all this idea of gimme gimme gimme free or I go cry on the interwebs in every chat room in existence?

    I know you're not whining or asking for the game for free here but soooo many people do and reading this post just hit that nerve of mine when it comes to F2P... Anyway, disagree with me if you want but nowhere else in my life have I ever seen so many people expect things for free as I have in the last few years of online gaming, and in the end F2P ends up gouging you for a hell of a lot more money anyway or you play the game gimped.
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  10. Furor Tuetonicus

    Furor Tuetonicus Cupcake-About-Town

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    Gold is also going to be heavily used in the game for luxury items, or so it appears. Using the example given by Carbine, mounts will be cosmetic items and only available for gold. So gold isn't a purely AH resource and will likely be used for housing, warplots, mounts and quite a few other cosmetic purchases.
  11. Grimnar40k

    Grimnar40k Cupcake-About-Town

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    Also there is no AH. No auctions, no bids, only a commodities market with set values. Someone posts with a sell order, then someone buys it for that price. It is very different from WoW that so many people seem to be getting it confused with.
  12. Borz

    Borz Cupcake-About-Town

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    Buying CREDD =/= instant gold injection, takes time, setting price low enough for people to buy and someone to buy it.
    Getting gold =/= guarantee of getting epic item. First someone else has to acquire it somehow, then be willing to sell it, then you have to get to seller before other potential buyers, and still have enough of gold for that item.




    Way to miss the point.
    If CREDDs are rare and extremely expensive, then maybe yes, some people buying plenty of those can get filthy rich. If they can find load of suckers willing to pay their price constantly.
    If more than few people actually try to make money on CREDDS without choking prices, then buying one or even ten CREDDs will not make anyone filthy rich, because they'll be cheap enough to allow as many people as possible to buy them and part with their gold.
    Situation where CREDDs are extremely overpriced and people still keep buying them is really unlikely.

    Eve might be only other game selling subscription as ingame item, but that does not make it good comparision. In Eve earning power of random player after 2 months of playing is much much lower than after 2 years. In MMOs like WS, once you hit level cap you should have all most profitable ways to make money avaible. Better comparision is SWTOR, allowing items bought in cash shop to be sold to other players for ingame currency. Last time I've checked you could easly make eqivalent of 1$ per hour at max level while playing as usual, and while it's not possible to buy subscription with ingame currency, I doubt such option would significantly change value of money. It does not matter what sold item does, only thing important is how much real moeny it costs and if it sells well.
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  13. Marakesh

    Marakesh Cupcake

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    Not sure I'm reading this right but if you're suggesting that Wildstar is P2W in any way I just can't agree or understand where you're getting this from.

    Fairytalebacks had said that, so I was asking him to give an example of what is less P2W in his mind than the system Wildstar will have. I don't see chinese gold farmers as any better than this CREDD system myself, and that's the only difference we know of.
  14. Grim Fandango

    Grim Fandango Well-Known Cupcake

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    Since we have no idea what the in-game values are, it's kind of stupid to sit around arguing about how impossible it is to conceive. These guys clearly know what they're doing here. How about waiting to see the final product before bickering like old ninnies about it?

    It is a hybrid model. You can choose to either subscribe or play for free. It's just that if you play for free, you actually have to work for it. No freeloading off the paying members for you.
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  15. Grimnar40k

    Grimnar40k Cupcake-About-Town

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    I just keep seeing so much misinformation here.

    1. No one is buying gold that is created by Carbine with CREDD. JG specifically stated that it is EARNED gold that players will buy from other players with the CREDD purchased from Carbine.

    2. There is no player to player interaction in the selling of CREDD for gold so there is no price manipulation. It will be sold for gold anonymously through the CX at Carbine's designated price which will obviously be adjusted based on supply and demand.

    3. There are no items or store available that has been announced that players will buy with CREDD. I don't think any of us think Carbine is stupid enough to do something like this, and btw 1 CREDD is $19.99. The value will be based in 30 day play time and gold. That's it.

    $19.99 = 30 days time = XXXX gold
  16. Baconwich

    Baconwich Cupcake

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    This, right here, was exactly what I was thinking. They say you can stockpile CREDD too, so you could theoretically just keep buying them over the course of your subscription career, and take a few months off paying, like vacation time.

    What I'd like to know is how I could use this system to buy game-time for my wife, who I really want to play with, but who won't do subscription after FF11...
  17. Grimnar40k

    Grimnar40k Cupcake-About-Town

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    Withdraw cash from your checking account, sneak over to a local store and buy game time with the cash. Then login to her account and add game time and hope she never notices.

    When she asks you just tell her you've been farming like hell to buy her CREDD for game time.

    It may work, or get you into a lot of trouble. Gotta roll the dice man and hope it goes well. Good luck. =)
  18. Furor Tuetonicus

    Furor Tuetonicus Cupcake-About-Town

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    Ha! Lying, even for a GOOD reason, is never a good idea!

    Though I was talking to my GF about this, and she brought up a really good point. Why can't she use gold to buy CREDDs and give it to friends? It would really help perpetuate the system and increase revenue for Carbine.
  19. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    WoW is likely less Pay to Win.
    Far more people will use legitimate cash for gold means, than 3rd party sites for fear of losing their account or being cheated.
    WoW BoE epic items are rarely BiS or even above average for raiding, and even then there are only a few in game.
    Gold is easy to acquire regardless, further making these few epic items less P2W.


    WoW is likely less P2W than WS will be.
    I am hoping it will be about the same though. If not, then I probably won't even be interested in maintaining my subs.
  20. Kayelia

    Kayelia Cupcake

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    You're right that carbine is a business, and they have invested a lot of money into wildstar. But those do not entitle carbine to a sale.

    In my opinion, I don't honestly believe wildstar is worth $60 upfront. Not with what has been revealed so far. Picobeat would have to speak for himself/herself on how much the game is worth.


    I'm confused. Where did these two come from? I don't believe anyone was saying these.

    Edit:
    Would giving her the gold then having her buy the credd work? I think they said you can't buy for someone else in the faq so...

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