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some concerns about Wildstar combat

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by jimjimjim, Oct 30, 2013.

  1. mykx

    mykx New Cupcake

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    What sorcery is this lol. But, on a more serious note aren't people supposed to argue points made in the op as I've seen people doing here? In regards to this threads op this merge seems like a rude interruption.

    Maybe I should have been more specific in the titling of my post, as the points discussed in the thread I created are quite different from the ones being discussed here.
  2. Octopusbread

    Octopusbread New Cupcake

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    This video is basically all about housing what exactly are you showing here?
  3. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    <Mod Face> The topics of both threads are regarding personal concerns over WS combat mechanics and that's why I merged them, people don't have neccessarily argue with the OP. </Mod Face>

    Though it does happen a lot. . .
    Livnthedream likes this.
  4. Huntress-Rune

    Huntress-Rune New Cupcake

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    Sorry if this has already been mentioned in this monolithic thread, but does combat seem too slow from the live-streams? Personally I am worried it is going to be a massive grind. I know he was playing a warrior (and even a tank in the second half), but overall everything seems to be doing too little damage, even last week when he played spellslinger and stalker it seemed to take way too long for a single mob to die.

    I would rather big risks (mobs doing a lot of damage), and faster combat (mobs dying quick, more mobs of small guys idk). At the moment levelling looks like it is going to be just as painful and boring as it is in every other mmo. Despite the fact I am interested in the combat system.

    I could be wrong, I haven't had a chance to play it yet obviously, and I am really excited about the game... I just don't want it to be like other mmos where I have to wait until max level to start having fun.

    And I know I can pull more mobs etc. but from the world I was seeing, it seemed like often mobs are quite spread out, and that wouldn't always be possible.
  5. Vyver

    Vyver "That" Cupcake

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    That's certainly a legitimate question! And one that's been brought up before. Though it's usually met with "hurglegurgle group centric game hurglegurgle play better hurglegurgle"

    Watching someone whale on a trash mob for 3 minutes might be fun in a stream but when you have to kill 20 boars in-game it's going to be a draaaag.
  6. Sneakybuffalo

    Sneakybuffalo Cupcake-About-Town

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    Pretty much every attack in WS is an AoE so pulling multiple mobs is going to be key.

    Also MOOs are going to be huge when it comes to TTK. If you take advantage of Moments of Opportunity, things will die much faster
    Livnthedream and Leiloni like this.
  7. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    1. If you go into the game with the mindset of "just waiting for that inevitable grind" then that's eventually what you're going to find. ( no rhyme intended ). Have fun playing everything.

    2. The video was made to help "explain" to people ( not going so fast so ppl can follow along ). So, most likely different than how it might be played in a normal situation.

    Beta

    - also they have mentioned that there was feedback about dmg being light and no sense of danger, and of course Gaffney has said that this isn't cigarette combat.
  8. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    Whatever that means. :p
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  9. Vyver

    Vyver "That" Cupcake

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    I think it's a nicer way of saying "combat so easy you can play it with one hand"

    "while you masturbate"


    "...it was a masturbation joke..."
  10. Katherine

    Katherine Cupcake-About-Town

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    They said in the latest stream that they are still tinkering with how quickly mobs die etc: I think in beta people said things were dying too slowly. I doubt they'll make it feel as slow as other MMO's can be, but I think you sort of have to expect a certain amount of grind. Its an RPG, afterall :p.
  11. Kuma

    Kuma New Cupcake

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    This is definitely the key to making combat go by faster. They were talking about different ways you can get bonus damage on mobs, specifically either CC'ing them during a cast or some special bonus like the Murderous Swings(or whatever) having bonus damage on knocked down targets. When they attacked the mobs during those moments, the hp bar dropped drastically. Now if you use this tactic while utilizing your AoE and CC'ing maybe 4 or 5 mobs, kills will happen much faster.

    One fight i found particularly interesting was the one near the end of the Warrior stream, where the tank took on 6 mobs at once. The fight lasted maybe about 2-3 minutes, about the same length as when he was facing about 2 mobs at once. Of course he was forced to activate some long cooldown abilities, but he cleared the mobs effectively using his AoE and CC. I found it quite intriguing. If you haven't seen the stream yet, definitely give it a look.

    tl;dr - CC = Bonus damage, CC+lots of AoE+lots of Mobs = Super Fun Murder All The Things Bonus Damage
    ruff_ethereal and Sonntam like this.
  12. Rentah

    Rentah Cupcake-About-Town

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    all i can say is... SIGH
  13. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    The W* combat is definitely slower than wam-bam-thankyoumam combat; this makes for a more tactical combat. If you can three-hit a MOB then there is no reason to learn and use tactics, both defensive and offensive, and the Devs have stated that they want us to learn W* tactics as we level, not when we get to cap and finely face a MOB that requires tactics.
    Also something I think needs to be removed from the W* vocabulary is “Trash MOB”. Most of the MOBs I have seen are moderate HP, multiple attacks which includes CCs. A MOB that can blind you should not be seen as a trash MOB.

    As for increasing the pace of combat we have seen that there are offensive tactics that increase how fast a MOB goes down.
    CC them and use the attack that does extra damage when their CCd. CC them while they are telegraphing and make them vulnerable and CCd and hit them with the extra damage attack to do even more damage. When the Dev did these we saw huge chunks of HP taken out of the MOB.
    If the combat is still not fast enough for you, pull extra MOBs, because from what I saw the Dev often pulled extra MOBs by mistake, so it should not be that difficult to pull extra MOBs on purpose.
    Hells, if combat is still going to slow for you, group up and go through the MOBs faster. That is one advantage of grouping that is removed when you have hit and run combat.

    Also one of the things that makes it “seem” like the W* combat is slow is because we are just observers; if we were actually playing, the combat might not “feel” like it is slow.
    Witless and ruff_ethereal like this.
  14. selodaoc

    selodaoc Cupcake-About-Town

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    Attack speed could be twice as fast. I like Aions combat pace.
  15. Bnol

    Bnol Cupcake-About-Town

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    I don't understand the desire for a short TTK in MMORPGs. The game isn't an FPS or an aRPG, so I would expect to go through a decent rotation of skills to kill things. Sure, if you have to kill 100 boars you want a short TTK, but none of the quests seemed to take very long, and they were not maximizing the layered content and aoe opportunities on stream. A longer TTK allows a difference in killing/leveling speed between skilled and unskilled players, where if everything is a 2-3 shot, then there is little advantage to playing well. In terms of the output of the mobs, we have only seen around level 20 content in the new build, so I am hoping the damage and the danger starts ramping up then.
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  16. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    I had read that part of the feedback from the beta was that there were not enough telegraphs, and they were not punishing enough. In the Warrior Livestream about the 29 min point the Devs mention that they are tweaking this.
  17. Arsonist

    Arsonist Cupcake

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    As of the last few videos I have to say I think the combat is looking very good. Added to the fact that they still have 6 months to tweak and do stuff. I think its coming along very nicely
  18. Huntress-Rune

    Huntress-Rune New Cupcake

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    Don't misunderstand, I love story and lore. But when he was doing the kill five scorpion quest and they were spread miles apart and took a really long time to kill, it looked pretty boring.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with combat taking a long time, or monsters being slow to die if it is interesting, there are a lot of games like that. However usually that comes along with something that makes that long combat interesting, like the varying combat mechanics etc.

    The problem I was seeing, was he was doing the same thing over and over again for a really long time. Once he had dodged the telegraph 4 or 5 times, and the mobs were still on half health, it just seemed a bit excessive. Especially when he had to kill 5-10 of them? Basically I am trying to say it looked way too easy, and way too slow. I don't think games are fun unless there is some kind of risk/reward system. It feels like this is catering to the lowest denominator at the moment.

    I am hoping when they show the hard mobs vs easy mobs they were talking about (how the quest system works), that we will see some more difficult gameplay.

    Also I am just saying this from the perspective of a fanatic who wants to get all her friends to play, who then shows them combat and they say "ah I am not really into grindy mmos" or "it looks a bit too slow/easy". I felt like WildStar was trying to break that tradition.

    But as I said, this is just from what we have seen. They haven't showed much of the gameplay yet. And your right, it could be that they are playing excessively safe on the lifestream because they don't want to die etc. I mean they do keep saying stuff like how they died 6 times while practicing etc.

    And yeah the point about watching vs playing is also true, I mean there are a lot of games that can be boring to watch, but are fun to play.
  19. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    My first thought on reading this was; what kill 5 scorpion quest?
    I went back and watched the vid again, and there was no kill 5 scorpions quest; in fact there was not even a kill scorpions challenge (Which is a 9 min kill as many as you can within this time quest, and part of the layered content.).

    Personally I think you and many others lately just want to whine, and are using WSC as your personal blog to do so, so I’m done with you.
  20. Konoko

    Konoko Cupcake-About-Town

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