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Stalker Tanking, Not Taking Hits So You Don't Have To!

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by Bellaby, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. Bellaby

    Bellaby Well-Known Cupcake

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    I just wanted to start this thread to spitball ideas about tanking as a Stalker, and what kind of mechanics it would need to be viable!

    Remember this is just a speculation thread, and is subject to drastic change as more information is released! (I'm just too excited to wait!)

    When the game goes live I'll evolve this into a Guide Thread to help new players, but until then, speculate away!

    This just in from the Reddit AMAA Concerning Threat Mechanics!
    [–]OHNOITSKEN

    Group PvE combat question (I know... I don't really pvp that often but the combat dudes are here so...)
    For a tank, how high on the priority list is keeping aggro in group combat? By this I mean will tanks have to actively create threat on a target or do you believe that keeping threat shouldn't be a particularly hard endeavor which leaves more brain space for other things such as placement/movement, CCs, and interrupts?

    [–]CRB_ClynchCombat Systems Lead
    Yes, tanks will actively have to generate threat, but this is not a particularly hard endeavor due to the reasons you listed. Our combat, and boss fights, tend to require the player to react to things that are occurring in real time. Due to this a majority of the tank’s time/brainpower will be spent on things such as:


    • Movement: The tank and their group mates will need to be available to actively move around during a fight to avoid high damage attacks that could seriously hurt, or kill them.

    • Coordinating CC’s: With systems like Interrupt Armor, most boss creatures will require multiple CC’s to prevent them from casting potentially devastating abilities. This means that interrupting these abilities will need to be a coordinated group activity.

    • Timing Defensive/Survivability Abilities: The tank will have a nice arsenal of abilities that help them increase their survivability. When, where, and how you use these abilities will truly determine their true effectiveness.
    The Wiki Page for Stalker, a bit bare ATM, but it'll be good to keep an eye on!: http://wildstar.gamepedia.com/Stalker

    ~Built-In Dodge Mechanics and Positioning
    ~Wildstar is a game that follows the Trinity Rule in terms of group composition, but at the same time follows the "Fend for yourself" example set by Guild Wars 2. I of course am referencing the dodge mechanic that we've seen. It appears to be similiar to GW2 in that you can dodge a limited number of times limited by a cooldown or recharge timer. Now while the "Get out of the way" damage avoidance works in a game where everyone is responsible for themself, how will it affect group dynamics when concerning a tank?

    (a.) I'm sure quite a few of you immediately think of "TERA", where the dual wielding Warrior class functioned as an "Avoidance Tank", using the games dodge system to avoid damage entirely. While it was an exciting and innovative system, it ended up being quite gimmicky, and just plain didn't work on certain fights due to positional requirements preventing excessive movement. While you could argue that those fights are still possible, it was only so if the tank was absolutely flawless in execution. In order to combat this nearly impossible difficulty curve, the developers gave the class an active blocking mechanic, thus removing their unique tanking style.

    (b.) Another option is to go the route of the "classic MMO", and give the Stalker a passive chance to avoid damage based on RNG(Randomly Generated Number, ie a dice roll). The issue here is that it takes all skill out of the players hand and instead puts your survive-ability on the side of a dice. One of Wildstar's greatest drawing points, for me at least, is an active combat system.

    My Solution: The first step would be to keep the current "Dodge Roll" mechanic, and in addition, give Stalkers an alternate form of actively dodging. This ability, instead of moving your character out of the way, would instead allow you to stand in place, but would still allow you to completely avoid damage for a moment or two. Possibilities could range anywhere from phasing out of existence using magic, using a portal to step out of the dimension during an attack, or even just jumping high into the air. The skill aspect of avoidance would still apply, a short duration would promote frugal use, and you could remain in the same position, allowing allies behind the tanked mob to avoid frontal attacks while continuing to DPS/Heal.

    More to come soon!

    Remember this is just a speculation thread, and is subject to drastic change as more information is released! (I'm just too excited to wait!)
  2. HoneyBadger

    HoneyBadger Cupcake

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    Welcome to the forums! :inlove: O: (I hope I'm the first one to say that)

    Also you should've added that last part of your thread to the start, some might get spitefire about it.

    But considering that Stalker uses the TECH stat (even says so in their class page) for their tanking stat, then it is most likely not too gimicky and pretty straight forward. Different resource systems of course, most likely the same mitigation as well considering they use a armorclass that is lower than the Soldier. Most likely they will receive some kind of BUFF ability for their tanking that reduces damage, increases threat and armor by perhaps 60%?

    But as speculations usually go, that's what I think it will go. Then again we have no idea what Tech specifically increases, but I'd guess ABSORPTION instead of a flat-out increase in armor, since then there would be no need for armor-classes at all if tech increased armor.
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  3. Bellaby

    Bellaby Well-Known Cupcake

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    Fixed, thanks : )
  4. Bellaby

    Bellaby Well-Known Cupcake

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    Well Tech seems to just be the general tanking stat, so I'd say it probably increases surviveability in SOME way! I suppose the Warrior and Stalker could both use some form of shield generator, like a force-field type thing, but I honestly hope the Stalker is an avoidance tank, rather than just a Warrior tank with different weapons :[
  5. nomotog

    nomotog Cupcake-About-Town

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    Tech stalkers use stun attacks to block telegraphs, but why can't an avoidance tank work?
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  6. Bellaby

    Bellaby Well-Known Cupcake

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    The real question is how they'd implement Avoidance for tanking. A pretty big part of tanking is control/positioning, and rolling all over the place could cause some major problems!
  7. JCwildthing

    JCwildthing Cupcake

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    My big question about tanking in this game is how well will aggro hold? If you are doing all this dodging around, what will generate the aggro to hold the traditional tank style?
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  8. nomotog

    nomotog Cupcake-About-Town

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    You could have a passive that generates aggro when you dodge. Also you could time things so you are dodging well you attacks are on cool downs.
  9. Bellaby

    Bellaby Well-Known Cupcake

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    Well that could be a part of the prime tanking mechanic, allocating your resources between raising threat and avoiding damage!
  10. JCwildthing

    JCwildthing Cupcake

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    I plan on playing a spellslinger and I am sitting here imagining a stalker trying to tank, dodging and all, with me firing away from range and getting all the attacks thrown my way :). I'm just curious and excited to see how this system will truly play out. I guess I am having a hard time getting my head out of the WoW model.
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  11. spencerBAXLEY

    spencerBAXLEY Cupcake-About-Town

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    This was a big issue for me in GW2. I was a Guardian specced for tanking, so when I was present, the mobs didn't move (albeit I was tabbed out most of the time because it was horrifically boring, but that's a different subject). When others would go with my static group, they'd have a horrible time with everyone bouncing around the place with no sense of control or focus.

    It was interesting that they decided to "think outside the box" but in practice I found it somewhat lacking. I'm glad that Carbine is taking a more known avenue as far as group roles are concerned, but I do share your sentiment in being excited for an avoidance tank. I've always found that concept really cool.

    Really excited to see how they end up implementing it, but I must say I like the solution that you suggested. :)
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  12. Bellaby

    Bellaby Well-Known Cupcake

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    Yeah me too, the old "Combat Table Coverage" is something I would be glad to be rid of, it belongs on a table-top! :p
  13. Bellaby

    Bellaby Well-Known Cupcake

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    Honestly if GW2 had just stuck with the Trinity system I probably would have enjoyed it quite a bit more! As it stands, running dungeons is all yucky and chaotic!
  14. Taters

    Taters Cupcake

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    Tech = increased threat based on the little bit of information that has been released on the subject.
    Stam = increased health pool....no surprise there.
    Stacking Tech and Stam over Dex will probably hit some more tank oriented milestones that will complement a mitigation based loadout.
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  15. Zel

    Zel Cupcake

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  16. Taters

    Taters Cupcake

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    Also mentioned here.
    http://wildstarradio.com/2013/02/21/i-could-tell-you-but-then-id-have-to-kill-you/

    I think that's the PvP build more than the tanking build but certainly there's some overlap in what abilities you would want as a stalker tank. Probably a "pounce" that instantly moves you behind the enemy. As well as a "fade from sight" that causes them to miss. oohhh or maybe when you hit a tech milestone your partial camo becomes said "fade".
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  17. Zel

    Zel Cupcake

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    I like the concept of some milestones upgrading or altering a currently existing ability, potentially making an ability you'd never use suddenly part of your main rotation. Especially for tanks, making abilities cause more threat, or "taunt" the enemy...limitless possibility!
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  18. Bellaby

    Bellaby Well-Known Cupcake

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    I'm gonna start adding all of this wonderful info to the OP! With credits, of course!
  19. qqmoarploxify

    qqmoarploxify Cupcake-About-Town

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    Alright I'm going to do my best to paint a picture and hopefully I don't sound stupid :p

    So a stalker is a "Rogue" type class. In Rift, the rogue tank has tons of utility abilities called "Plane Shifting" which do different things. 1 teleport you to enemies and deals AoE damage, another teleports you to an enemy dealing ST damage while another one just teleports you forward, another one to teleport you to your target location and a last one to set a location with "Memory Caputre" and use "Recall" to teleport back to that location.

    So what if Stalker talks were complete avoidance tanks (aside from taking basic attacks, while avoiding all abilities/cleaves). They could make really good use of a "Memory Capture" type ability where they can set their location and teleport to it, along with other teleports. For example, the stalker could set his location on top of the boss with a "Memory Capture" and when the boss uses an ability he can teleport out, and as soon as the boss is done casting he can click a "Recall" ability to teleport back to that location before the boss has a chance to turn around.

    The stalker can also use these types of abilities to properly position enemies by setting a recall position, pulling an enemy and then using that recall, only to have the boss follow him. If the stalker manages to lose threat he can teleport to the boss, use a taunt and regain aggro, and then teleport back to the proper location. If the boss needs to be rotated or he has to kite the boss he can make use of these teleports. Being the ultimate avoidance tank.
  20. Karl Pedder

    Karl Pedder Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think it's fairly safe to assume they will have a passive RNG dependant avoidance ability that gives them X% chance to avoid incoming damage that scales with their Tech stat. That is in addition to the active Dodge ability all classes have and likely Tech milestones/tanking spec choices that improve their basic Dodge capabilities and provide additional activated and triggered mitigation mechanics.

    Which could largely be attributed to many of the blatantly flawed "norms' that developed in MMOs such as people becoming far too comfortable with there being far too many abilities that require you to remain stationary to cast. Personelly I far prefer the dynamism of actually mobile encounters than the the way that so many WoW encounters were made more "dynamic" by turning them into a dance routine. Forward, now step left and bend, now twirl, step back and hold.......
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