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Tagging Mobs: First Come First Server, or Does Everyone Get A Piece of the Action?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Zapp Brannigan, Apr 14, 2013.

  1. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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    These are both simply being realistic, nothing is perfect and to expect it to be is setting yourself up for disappointment, be realistic is all I'm saying.
  2. Jojin

    Jojin Cupcake-About-Town

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    Sorry, your experience differs from mine and my friends. It was something we had to overcome while playing forcing us to change to harder initial hitting abilities to ensure we did receive credit as the monster died so quickly.


    Again, as stated previously, I am aware it's an MMO and you are to play with people. This still doesn't change the fact I am against a system which would encourage someone to continually interfere with someone else's experience. Nothing is more annoying than doing all the work and intelligently trying to battle a monster while someone else throws out a couple of taps and gets the same reward, especially if it makes it harder to position and control the monster.


    The mention of "designed to prevent extreme exploitation" was put in there to cover the basis of a truly open tagging system in which experience and rewards is equal for all who participated regardless of how much they did. For example a group of 50 people all tapping a single monster and all getting equal experience and loot.

    It's just a hell of a lot of different scenario's which aren't good, so I put in a qualifier to limit it to those designs which take into consideration of such. Just like I keep stating this is only for generic non-quest, event or rare monsters so things don't get taken out of context.
  3. Elthic

    Elthic Cupcake-About-Town

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    I prefer a closed system. I want the economy in the game to thrive, allowing 5 or so people to kill 1 monster, and all of them getting their own loot, creates too much of a particular item to be in the economy.

    For example in a closed loot system 5 people kill 1 monster; however only the person who tagged the monster gets the loot such as a piece of cloth and a bit of money. However, in a open tagging system all 5 of those people would have gotten loot from that 1 mob, meaning that each person would have gotten their own piece of cloth, and a bit of money.

    In open loot system, this causes those items to become worthless on the AH, because the supply of a particular item is so high. In a good economy you want items in the game to have some value, and you want a good amount crafting materials to hold value. If crafting materials hold no value then crafting itself really holds no value as well.
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  4. moneda

    moneda Cupcake-About-Town

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    This example assumes each of these players wouldn't be killing this mob on their own anyway, which seems to be a poor assumption unless this mob is extremely rare.
  5. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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    Even if they did it's still somewhat restricted by respawn timers making it take 5x as long as an open tag system, either way the closed tagging slows and better controls the flow of items into the game world.
  6. moneda

    moneda Cupcake-About-Town

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    That sounds like a horrible amount of added tedium for a net gain of nothing for anyone. That may not be what it is but that's what it sounds like.
  7. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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    Well think of it outside the confines of a single mob, take a group of bots or something right, if you have 5 bots going along the same path in an open tag system they would they are generating 5X the income for every mob they hit, 5X the items this hurts the economy a lot. In a closed tag system the respawn timers help mitigate this quite a bit as they can't just camp the best spots with several bots and increase their profits as much. A stronger economy for players is a pretty big net gain for not too much added tedium for the average player.
  8. moneda

    moneda Cupcake-About-Town

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    A completely closed tagging system doesn't sound like something a developer would implement to combat gold farmers. Especially given it doesn't seem to help, if WoW and TERA are used as examples.
  9. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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    Many gold farmers in WoW and TERA liquidate the characters they steal or farm ore for the gold they sell and it's not going to get rid of gold farmers entirely. In GW2 though a lot of gold farmers farmed mobs like that though and were able to amass large amounts of the popular T6 mats that dropped from normal mobs to the point where after a banning pass of botting these materials tripled or quadrupled in value as it was back to players having to farm them legitimately. The two sets of games had a far different emphasis on how to gold farm in no small part due to the tagging system.
  10. AnotherJaggens

    AnotherJaggens Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well, actually prices gone up not because bots were banned. It was because when it started happening in a certain popular area, botters got a signal - better avoid that place and move somewhere else. Also some of price spikes happened because while movement been happening some decided to capitalize on soon to go up prices, and bought big chunk of stock, to sell it for more in a week.

    But your argument is still true, just to clarify.
  11. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    Your example is ludicrous. The only way that 5 people are on one MOB in a closed tagging system is if they are a group, formed to obtain specific items from that MOB, and they will stay on the same MOB until all 5 get what they want from that MOB (Except for the occasional jerk that will bail when they get the item they were looking for.). It’s called camping. The camped MOB will drop specific loot, and a bunch of misc loot. While waiting on that specific MOB to pop a group will usually take out other MOBs that are around. A five man group can collect a gosa load of shiny while camping a MOB.
  12. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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    Or they might be a group of friends leveling together and they were going from point A to point B and happened to kill a mob, it's happened to me many times ludicrous as that may sound.
  13. Elthic

    Elthic Cupcake-About-Town

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    Even in a 5 man group the mob only drops a bit of money, maybe an item or 2. That 5 man splits the money, and only 1 person in that 5 man gets those items. So my example works, as I was trying to show that open systems cause items to become undervalued, because the supply is just higher period.

    And in an open system all those people get their own items whether they are in a group or not. Sorry, but I don't mind waiting for few monsters here or there leveling up at the cost of a lousy economy in the game.
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  14. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    Being I’m not a Merchant Prince; a high supply economy means that I have more coin in my pocket, because I’m one of the Warrior Soldiers who contributes to that supply. This means I have coin enough to afford the fine blaster on my hip, the dark brew in my hand, and the entertaining companion on my lap. Now can life be any more shiny that that?!
  15. Sideros

    Sideros New Cupcake

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    I feel that open tagging really does have an impact on the value of currency and mat prices compared to closed tagging. There have been countless times in open tagging MMOs where I'd find my bags full of mats and decide to bring them to the auction house to sell them for some gold only to find out that they are extremely HIGH in supply and selling for close to nothing. That's when I just go to the nearest NPC vendor and just offload it all and actually get more money compared to if I had listed them in the AH.

    I love auction houses but I just feel like most open tagging systems seem to have that knack of making auction houses almost obsolete.
  16. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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    But everyone has access to that high supply so there is low demand for your high supply, prices plummet and you can't sell your contributions to the supply for anything more than a few copper above vendor prices.
  17. Kalmander

    Kalmander Well-Known Cupcake

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    I do not think that would ruin more the economy than 5 players farming the same rabbits for 5 hours in a closed system. I agree, income would be a bit higher, but that can be controller with other gold sinks. Actually, this would be a great way to incentivate grouping, since you get a bit more loot and money.

    I really do not think that we need a closed system to control the economy, or that an open system would ruin it. If somehow the economy is so bad, that only a closed system can fix it, then I think that economy has too many problems to begin with :S
  18. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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    I really don't know why you think it would only be a bit higher, in the example you quoted it's exactly 5X higher, much more than any definition of "a bit" if you extrapolate that over 5 hours that's a huge variance and therein lies the real problem.

    If it was just that everything was 5X more plentiful you are right you could increase gold sinks and it probably wouldn't be an issue, but the fact is the gold sellers and botters are the ones that operate this way, milking the system like this. When they milk it, it creates and huge variance in the amount of loot being handed out to different sectors of the population and makes it much more difficult to control, not to mention the straight economic undervaluation of goods farmed by the botters and gold sellers.
  19. Kalmander

    Kalmander Well-Known Cupcake

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    It really depends on how the economy is implemented. You think that somehow everything will be multiplied by 5. That is not the necessarily the case. If the economy is solely linked to mob drops, then sure. However, if the majority of the income comes from quests or events (as an example), then this will not be affected. If instead of the rat giving 2 coppers, it gives 10 coppers, or 1 linen every 2 kills instead of 10 (for that 5 man group only, not in general), then this is not really an issue.

    It all depends on how the economy is implemented. And not everyone will be grouping anyway, but this would be a good incentive for people to group up. Take GW2 for example, it has an open tagging system, and the mob drops are actually quite pitiful. The most money and xp comes from heart quests and events. I could farm mobs all day, and not get much at the end of the day. But farming events or hearts, now that is profitable, and that reward is not affected by open/closed tagging.

    So it depends on how the economy is implemented. I agree, the system could be terrible, if the economy is designed in a way that all income comes from mob drops. But if the system is not designed that way, and designed with this open tagging in mind, then it won't be a problem.

    There is no bad system or mechanics, only bad implementations of them.
  20. Jojin

    Jojin Cupcake-About-Town

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    I have to disagree on your point about drops not being profitable. It was common practice to put on as much treasure find gear as possible, eat the same food and go to an event. Once there, you would spam abilities to hit as many mobs as possible to get credit in the kill and a drop. The goal was hunting yellows to DE for mats to craft the gear you wanted. It was the most profitable thing you could do and people would do it until they hit the loot drop cap, then they would do something else.

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