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Tagging Mobs: First Come First Server, or Does Everyone Get A Piece of the Action?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Zapp Brannigan, Apr 14, 2013.

  1. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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    I specifically said this was not always the case and much of the problem in controlling the economy in open tagging is the variance of the loot hand outs it creates in my second paragraph.
  2. Leiloni

    Leiloni Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think a mixed system would be best. I like the challenge of trying to take down a mob by myself and don't like when it gets too easy and mindless because several people are on the same mob. And perhaps this is a relic from games like Aion, but usually I get pretty pissed when people try to "help" unless I'm near death (as in I'll prob curse you out and then PK you if you try to help me and don't gfto). Whether that attitude is valid or not is irrelevant, because that's just how I like to play. I want the game to remain interesting while leveling, so for that reason I'd prefer that there not be too much incentive to zerg kill my mobs with me. (so sad I can't PK people of my own faction in this game, TERA spoiled me lol. So much fun to group up with a friend and kill everyone in sight who comes near my quest mobs - get quests done and have some fun PvP battles all at the same time).

    But, if I'm in a tight spot and about to die, or if there are not enough mobs in an area to complete a quest, then I'd like mob sharing to be possible, if only as a last ditch effort. So perhaps make it so the first person to tag it gets 100% xp and loot, but the second person to come in only gets partial xp and less loot so there's no real incentive to go doing that all the time, but if you really need to, you can.


    Someone also mentioned world bosses and here I think they'd need to have a different system to encourage people to fight for the boss. No one wants to have two groups/guilds share loot on something so important, but a "first tag gets the boss" system would just be super lame here. The only thing that comes to mind is a dps system whereby the team that does the most dps to the boss (like in Aion) gets all the loot and all the XP while the other guild/group gets nothing.
  3. Felion

    Felion Cupcake-About-Town

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    I haven't been on here for quite a few days hence replying to this discussion late, my apologies.

    I liked seeing this statement, it puts us into common terms that we can then use to proceed further. We don't like jerks, we're going to try to limit them, but as with anything in life there are always consequences or sacrifices, and we're basically arguing whether if closed vs open tagging is "worth it" for that purpose. I'd also like to point out though, as I was stating in my previous post, that "jerks" is not and should not be the only aspect that we worry about, open tag system brings a lot more than controlling the amount of griefing in game. I'll elaborate later.

    There are a few things that I need to clarify: please take my arguments at face value, I was targeting each individual notion that I felt you were trying to express, and trying to distinguish them from each other. If you felt that a particular point is not what you meant at all (though I hope you could see where I got the idea that you meant it), you can of course clarify and "set me right". If it is what you meant however, then I'm simplifying the disagreement into short statements, which should lay a good foundation for a debate. Also, it may seem that I'm dramatizing some points, but that's exactly it --- I wanted to show what the implication of some of your words could easily suggest something darker, and I honestly did not know what you meant and whether if we have a common understanding. When you seemed to suggest that jerks are not that big of a deal, I start thinking the definition of a jerk, which is basically someone who does not feel remorse for causing grief in others (at least not as much as his desire to advance himself in whichever direction he chooses), and/or does not feel joy for contributing to others' happiness (again, at least not as much as his desire to advance himself). Is it a personal problem? No, people are who people are and absolutely no judgement can be made there. But it certainly is a social problem if the system is promoting it, and I wanted to point that out. I mean, it's something that should be given consideration at least instead of saying "oh it happens all the time so we'll do nothing about it". Death and illness are natural and happen all the time, yet we have hospitals and a whole medical system. Just saying.

    I'll also respond particularly to the response you gave regarding "the disadvantages of open tagging are factual" --- If you are going to say something is "factual", you shouldn't point to a forum post. I'd need more than a few pages of angry players to conclude that a system has major unsolvable problems. Things like numbers, analysis from experts and scientists, population report, gaming statistics, those things are factual. People saying things is not. And my point was also that, EVEN IF people saying things make things true, from critical review and most people that I've played with in game (and interacted on the forum), they all praised the open tagging system. So even if you want to use "people felt this & that" as your argument, I feel it is unfounded because 1) I have a completely different experience which makes me doubt the validity of your claim and 2) like I said, the amount of people complaining about open tagging is nowhere as much as people were complaining about closed tagging back in the day and 3) Even if some people complained about open tagging, it doesn't mean they'd like to have close tagging instead. It's not like each method has no room for adjustments and have no multiple modules supporting them.

    Now I'd like to steer the argument toward another direction: What is so good about closed tagging? That you can get rare loot and feel more excited about it? Open tagging can do that too. But there is something open tagging promotes and closed tagging don't: an cooperative friendly environment. When you see that person mining with you in Orr you think "woot nice someone to run together with to avoid mobs killing me". When you see that druid dropping down from the sky and stealing your herbs in Outland you just wish that he's of the opposite faction so you can kill him. You may sneer at something as vague as "a friendly atmosphere", but this is crucial in my eyes. Small details, tiny amounts of tension and animosity, these all adds up. And I think a more friendly atmosphere is worth sacrificing a lot of other things for, especially when I'm not convinced that closed tagging CAN provide much benefits. If you disagree, please prove me wrong. :)
  4. Ahrelia

    Ahrelia New Cupcake

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    Hey folks,

    One thing I havn't been able to find addressed anywhere is where WildStar sits on the concept of tagging mobs. I've seen that there are public quests, such as the Soldier's, but what about out in the world?

    I suspect this is a contentious topic, I can certainly see reasons both for and against tagging, but one thing that surprised me when playing a bit of Guild Wars 2, which I otherwise wasn't particularly into, was the fact that myself, and it seemed like other people, were more motivated to stop and help random strangers out if they looked like they were in trouble. Getting experience and rewards from helping everyone made me feel like I was in a big global party and a bit more social. Games like WoW give you no incentive at all to help out your fellow player.

    The other issue tagging causes is those times you need to kill a quest mob, and you have a pile of players standing around, none willing to group up, all waiting to be first tag on respawn.

    So, anyone know which way WildStar is going? Any thoughts on what's good or bad about that?
  5. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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  6. Ahrelia

    Ahrelia New Cupcake

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  7. Arkay

    Arkay Cupcake

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    Closed Tagging with the option to call for help/let others reap the rewards and help. This is only for Quest mobs. Normal mobs shouldn't be like this.

    If someone wants to be a jerk and monopolize all mobs then they should be able to. Go kill them. This sparks pvp.

    If they want to cooperate, then give them a chance. If someone is just trying to solo mobs without people interfering then they should be able to.

    World Bosses and rare mobs should absolutely be CT and require PvP to alter that. Having everyone attacking a WB and zerging it is inherently <REDACTED>.
  8. Inda

    Inda Cupcake

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    I think Aion's system of closed tagging based on who does 50% of the mob's health in damage is best, with a few modifications. Quest credit should be shared by everyone who touches it regardless of group (maybe not if it was some crazy raid mob quest). Loot would be based on the closed tagging system. It encourages grouping in order to ensure you get loot access however would not frustrate multiple players simply trying to get quests done.

    As far as xp goes I think that TERA did that well. Split the xp within the group and then apply a group xp bonus to each member. Make sure the xp shakes out that it is faster to level by grouping than it is to level by soloing. Might have to restrict this to 5mans and drastically water down the xp for raids depending on what you want to happen during the leveling process though. But so far TERA has been the only mmo to see me grouping with somebody while leveling for an extended period of time, often adding them to friends list. Most other MMOs only see me do this for leveling instances/group quests.
  9. Kraun

    Kraun New Cupcake

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    Open tagging = no hostility, no bad behaviour, people occasionally helping others out on hard stuff (evident from day 1 in GW2, tbh, i don't think i ever came across a hostile player in my GW2 career.)
    Closed tagging = griefing & harassing (Hogger being a prime example of these two), ninjaing, bad behaviour, verbal abuse etc. the list goes on (in WoW, this was evident from day 1 on vanilla, back in 2004 and even in beta)

    Which would you pick if you wanted to make an enjoyable and fun game from the get-go?

    What if it's your side of the faction that's doing the 'assholing'? To my knowledge, you won't be able to attack your own faction, how'd that spark pvp other than verbal abuse?

    On this one, i agree, except for the rare mob part. Why rare mobs shouldn't be taggable? See above answer.

    Totally agree on this part! Modern MMO's have become too solo-friendly, almost to a point where the community part is entirely optional and if you choose so, you'll never have to talk to or communicate with anyone in the games EVER. This is the biggest concern i have with the genre as a whole, they've almost eradicated the entire point of MMORPG's *spark* alltogether, which to me back in the late 90's, early 2000's was THE reason to play them, community! Last time i had someone outside of guild in my friends list was probably in AO back in 2002-2003 or something (compared to EQ where i had like 30ish friends outside of guild whom i kept in touch my entire EQ career), that should be a warning sign in itself.
  10. Woody

    Woody New Cupcake

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    I seriously hope they do the mob tagging like GW2.

    quest mobs, gathering nodes, are all shared.

    It's an mmo it's supposed to be about helping each other, getting along.

    Not fighting over quest mobs, kill stealing(pvp), all that c,rap.
    Ohoni likes this.

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