1. Hey Guest! If you're more than just a WildStar fan and want to keep up on the latest MMO news, reviews and opinion pieces then I'd like to suggest you visit our sister site MMO Central

Tanking variety and flavor

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by D3athcr33ps, Sep 20, 2013.

  1. D3athcr33ps

    D3athcr33ps Cupcake

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Wheeling, West Virginia
    Now that there are 3 available tanks (warrior, stalker, and engineer). I'm just going to say a little bit about each and my initial reaction to them.

    Warrior
    Now this this is the typical tank class. No big issues here. You are melee and you soak up damage for the group. This is the traditional idea of a tank. Sure there is no shield, but shields are for wimps.

    Stalker
    This is the first time that I am aware that a stealth/rogue class can tank. I know that the stalker class must rely on positional skills to do extra damage, like they must be behind the target to get a damage bonus. If you're tanking you lose out on this damage bonus. Does this put the stalker at a disadvantage over the warrior? Also a stealth ability seems to go against the tanking role. If your entire job is to be a shield for the group then doesn't being invisible seem unnecessary?

    Engineer
    Again this is an unorthodox tank. A ranged tank is something that is pretty new. If this tank focuses on ranged abilities, isn't there an established niche for a tank that can pick up multiple adds quickly? I really, really like the idea of this class.

    Another thing I'm wondering is if there are mitigation skills for each class? Does each class get a damage reduction button and a taunt? What sets the tanks apart from the dps, do they have different skills? Are the tanks going to be unique or are they all going to be a homogenized into the same generic class like WoW did?

    What is everyone else's opinion on this?
  2. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2012
    Likes Received:
    156
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Colorado
    I'm not sure if a lot of info pertaining to actual tanking abilities is common knowledge yet or not.

    I can say that pally tanking has gotten a lot more interesting in WoW due to an unintended benefit from haste (well linked to a passive but haste being the result). Instead of just soaking damage I now get to actively mitigate when needed. It adds a layer of complexity but, allows for a payoff in dps.

    ^^This is an example of what I hope for. Not unintended consequences but, trade offs in abilities that let me tank in a way that feels most comfortable and rewarding for me. The idea of being able to modify my tanking abilites to suit my play-style preference makes me giddy.:)

    Side note: I didn't know that the Engineer had been officially announced.:oops:
  3. FruitPunchHero

    FruitPunchHero Cupcake

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Stalkers will not play like traditional rogues. The ones that go for tank will forego stealth to take mitigation and control. The ones that don't still wont feel like a rogue. Just having stealth doesn't make it a rogue.
    As for engineer, it hasn't even been announced yet so how are we supposed to speculate on what it can do or how it does it?
    ruff_ethereal likes this.
  4. HappinessFactory

    HappinessFactory Cupcake

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Likes Received:
    43
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I did watch a rogue with 100% dodge chance solo Gruul in TBC... Seemed rather shady to me to be honest lol.

    But you do make a good point, I'm not quite sure how the holy trinity will work between the classes. After the class ambiguity mess that was GW2 I'm a little worried.
  5. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 12, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,640
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Mars
    Engineer has indeed not been revealed but it has supposedly been leaked. Any details on it I assume are purely hypothetical but I did not look into any of the leaks myself to know for certain. If this class indeed becomes a ranged tank, I can't see how Carbine plans to make it work, much less be viable and competitive with stalkers and warriors.
  6. D3athcr33ps

    D3athcr33ps Cupcake

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Wheeling, West Virginia

    I do like having the ability to press an "Oh S*$t button" if my healer is an idiot. WoW had an interesting mechanic you had the option of spending resources on damage mitigation or more damage output. The random procs were a nice perk, but it felt weird not getting a proc or getting 3 in a row sometimes.

    The engineer and medic are pretty much a sure thing

    pause the video at 6:43 and look at the class selection :) as for the class abilities you can google some unofficial data mined stuff.

    My concern is that there will be no differentiation between the stalker/warrior class. Then again one could be a bubble tank, one could be a self heal tank, stun/ control tank, or something cool and unheard of like a decoy/ pet/ tank.
    sauercrowd likes this.
  7. Zenatsu

    Zenatsu Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2013
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Dat leak.
  8. kichkinet

    kichkinet Cupcake

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Star Wars: The Old Republic had a similar tank diversity( typical tank + stealthy tank + ranged tank)

    The stalker will, in my opinion, be a lot like the Sith Assassin or Jedi Shadow from Star Wars: The Old Republic. They will use their stealth to get in close and CC a mob and/or position themselves for a difficult pull (at least that is how I played it). They will most likely have a small advantage in avoidance and shield(one of the video interviews previously explained that is what the blue part of the HP bar is) but will, most likely, have a small disadvantage in armor mitigation.

    The Engineer will, in my opinion, play like the Powertech or Vanguard from Star Wars: The Old Republic. The Engineer will probably be similar to the warrior in terms of how they avoid damage. They will probably be ranged in name only( when in tank mode) since every mob you agro will want to Falcon Punch you in the face. I did not get my Power Tech very high so I do not have much experience tanking with it. I hope to see them use a little red turret on a tripod(and an acoustic guitar in their trainer area) for a TF2 Meet the Engineer reference.

    Taunts and defensive CDs will probably be minimal since we are dealing with the LAS I think there are 9 ability slots so a single target taunt, AoE taunt, and 1 defensive CD will take up 1/3 of the bar. I think we might see some interesting skills like combining DCDs(Defensive Cooldowns) with the Taunts. It would be something akin to saying <REDACTED AoE TAUNT> taunts everything within x yards/meters for 5s and for the duration of the taunt plus 3s the tank's armor hardens reducing damage taken by y%.

    I remember watching that video too and at the end the rogue loots 4 or 5 legendaries. He was playing on a private server which is how he was able to achieve that dodge rate and solo Gruul.
    Garchomp likes this.
  9. Esauya

    Esauya Cupcake

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Warriors: Are Warriors, the end.

    Stalkers: Let's take a moment to remember something important for their Crowd Control video. Bosses WILL be able to be cc'd once you break through their "shield." I believe it takes.... 5 or 6 skills before 1 of them will work?

    So maybe Stalkers will have be able to take a large amount of CC skills, spam that shield down, then have a BIG cc that they blow on the boss when it is able to be cc'd.

    Also for anyone who played TERA; I think Stalkers will operate like Warriors in the sense that they are dodge tanks. Stalkers will probably have more mobility in their skills and be much quicker to jump out of any skills the boss is casting compared to warriors who know they can't get out in time and will cast a mitigation skill.

    I think Stalkers will be pretty awesome on solo bosses in that they can blink around, dodge, and just completely miss damage. While on multiple target pulls they will have issues and have to focus more on "Crowd Control" skills and will have a bigger issue dodging that many skills being casted at them.

    Let's not forget the skill that was shown in a pvp instance on Dev Speak when his Stalker vanished backwards, leaving a shadow clone infront that was targetted, then he re-dashed to the clone. Imagine using that on a "kill move" the boss has. Where the clone probably keeps all your aggro or casts a taunt that no monsters/bosses are immune to, and once the damage happens, you then return yourself back to it or when the duration is up.

    I believe Stalkers will have to be TIMING KINGS in order to succeed. I believe healers will have to do big fast heals to Stalkers who will probably get hit here and there while with warriors they will have more patch healing to do.

    Kind of like Tanking Druids from TBC. We loved em because they never got hit, but when they did, ahhh <REDACTED>. Only this time you have to physically use your skills to dodge.






    As for Engineers. I believe they will be a mid-ranged class much like Power-Techs and Vanguards from SWTOR. They will probably excel at AoE tanking and carry Heavy Armor like Warriors. They'll probably have less mitigation skills than warriors, less dodge than Stalkers, but be right in the middle. Maybe they'll have a feature like SWTOR where they have chances to proc things like a Shield to absorb damage. Or maybe it will be some where in the middle; where instead of relying on a proc for a shield they have skill casts for mitigation.


    So, Warriors have skills to mitigate damage by x amount.
    Stalkers have skills to dodge damage for 0 damage.
    Engineers have skills to mitage damage for damage absorb.

    Meaning Engineers would take a middle ground of damage on a regular basis compared to the other 2 tanks, but they can completely negate damage on cool downs. Maybe they will even give the engineer some self-healing abilities.


    I see it as this:

    Warriors = Warriors from WoW (Shield Blocking damage and what not)
    Stalkers = Feral Bears from WoW (Completely dodging damage)
    Engineers = Blood Death Knights from WoW (Mitigation for damage with abilities to heal themselves)





    Just my thoughts.

    I think Stalkers will be one of the coolest tanks personally, probably the hardest but with high risk-reward. Definitely not for everyone, just like Warriors from TERA compared to Lancers. Lancers were always the safe way to go just as Warrior tanks in this game probably will be. But no one could ever complain about a DK tank, just like I'm sure with Engineers in this game.
    ruff_ethereal likes this.
  10. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Likes Received:
    2,884
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Z-Lab
    No offense, so this is gonna be offensive :p

    WTF is wrong with you guys!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

    WoW comparisons with my beloved tanks?? SHAME ON YOU!!! And WHERE ARE THE DATA we got on our beloved tanks?!?!?!

    Differences in my opinion:

    WS will have you (the tank) move more then in WoW, use those dodges/rolls/sprints etc.

    How I see it:

    Stalker = Tech Tank

    Warrior = Grit Tank

    Engineer = Moxie or Finesse Tank???


    Ofcourse you have the option to choose either one of those stats as your main tanking stats. But I do feel (looking at the milestones/abilities) that some stats are better for a specific tanking class then others (examples below support this claim).

    Now what we know about WS tanks for now (they are changing the milestones system but it may give us a look into how each tank works):

    Stalker Tank MileStone effects:

    • Tech: Rank - 1 [Survivalist]
      • When you are Crit you will restore 150% Tech in shields, this can only happen once every 6 seconds.
    • Tech: Rank - 2 [Don't Call it a Comeback]
      • When you get below 35% health, you summon a clone that, while active, deals 15% Technology damage every 1.25s and taunts nearby enemies. The clone lasts up to 10 seconds or until killed. This can only occur every 3 minutes.
    • Tech: Rank - 3 [Make it Count]
      • When damaged below 30% health your shields are fully restored and your Assault and Support Power are increased 10% for 8 seconds. This can only occur every 2 minutes.
    • Tech: Rank - 4 [My Turn]
      • When you take damage you gain a counter, at 16 counters, nearby enemies will be Stunned for 1.5 seconds. This can only occur every 60 seconds.
    • Tech: Rank - 5 [Last Stand]
      • If the Stalker were to take damage that would kill him he becomes invulnerable for 4 seconds and regenerates 250% Technology per second for 4 seconds.
    • Finesse: Rank - 2 [Resilient]
      • When Partial Stealth is activated, the duration of CC's used against you are decreased by 50% for 10 seconds. This can only occur every 2 minutes.
    • Grit: Rank - 2 [That's All You Got?]
      • When your health is above 80% damage dealt to you is reduced by 10% and resistances are increased by 10%.
    • Grit: Rank - 4 [Iron Man]
      • If you are hit by a CC you gain a counter for 15 seconds. If the counter reaches 4 you will receive 1 Interrupt Armor. This can only occur every 45 seconds.
    • Moxie: Rank - 1 [Left in the Dust]
      • When Dashing you have a 50% chance to Root enemies within 3 meters for 3 seconds. This can only occur every 45 seconds.
    • Insight: Rank - 1 [Journeyman]
      • When you exit combat you will be healed 200% Insight every 1 second for 6 seconds. This can only occur every 15 seconds.
    Warrior Tank MileStone effects:

    • Finesse: Rank - 2 [Stonewall]
      • After Dashing, the next attack you take within 5 seconds deals 20% less damage.
    • Finesse: Rank - 3 [Unyielding]
      • While below 30% health you cannot be Dazed.
    • Moxie: Rank - 2 [Stand Tall]
      • After standing still for 3 seconds the next attack you take will deal 20% reduced damage. This effect is canceled by moving.
    • Moxie: Rank - 3 [No Fear]
      • While your Shields are depleted, the duration of all CC effects on you are reduced by 30%.
    • Tech: Rank - 2 [Countermeasures]
      • While your Shields are active all Disarm, Blind, and Disorient effects will be automatically removed after 2 seconds.
    • Tech: Rank - 3 [Hyperdrive]
      • While under the effects of Overdrive you will deal [75% Tech] damage to nearby enemies and restore [75% Tech] Shields to you and nearby allies every second.
    • Tech: Rank - 4 [Fortify]
      • When you Shields are above 50% your Armor is increased by 20%.
    • Tech: Rank - 5 [Reserve Power]
      • When your Shields are depleted, you will instantly regenerate [600% Tech] Shield Capacity. This can only occur every 2 minutes.
    • Insight: Rank - 3 [Cellular Regeneration]
      • When you reach 3 full Kinetic Cells, you regenerate [300% Insight] health every 2 seconds as long as all 3 Cells remain full.
    • Grit: Rank - 2 [Reflexive Shields]
      • When you are Knocked down or Stunned you will instantly regenerate [300% Grit] Shield Capacity. [Currently any CC]
    • Grit: Rank - 3 [Health Sponge]
      • When you are below 30% Health you will receive an additional 20% healing.
    • Grit: Rank - 4 [Bring It]
      • Whenever you are Hit you gain a stacking buff, Critical Hits add two stacks. When you reach 10 stacks you will restore [1000% Grit] Health.
    Seeing all these Tanking MileStone I see 2 things:

    Warrior:

    Has a lot of healing and regeneration of the shield effects!

    So the warrior most likely will become a healing/shielding tank, good for MT'ing and taking loads of damage.

    His abilities like:
    • Defense Grid
      • Creates a Defensive Grid around you for 10 seconds. While the grid is active the caster takes 30% reduced damage.
      • Additionally up to 4 party members inside the grid take 15% reduced damage.
    • Plasma Wall
      • New Ability! This is a 2-3 Cell consumer.
      • This ability functions similarly to Whirlwind in that it will deal damage to enemies every half second while the button is held down. Plasma Wall however only deals damage to enemies in a frontal arc in front of the Warrior.
      • Additionally the Warrior gains a damage reduction buff while Plasma Wall is active, however if the Warrior is attacked twice from behind the buff is lost.
    • Unstoppable Force
      • New Ability! This ability breaks the Warrior free from all CC effects and grants immunity to CC effects for 5 seconds.
      • This ability ignores GCD and has a 60 second cooldown.
    Support the claim that he is the more stationary/shielding/healing received tank out of the 2 we know of.


    Stalker:

    Has a lot of movement based effects, that has CC effects tied to them.
    This may come in handy for AoE tanking little adds, or CC'ing bosses/adds.
    Good for OT'ing

    Abilities like:

    • False Retreat
      • First Press: Leap backwards 20 meters leaving a beacon behind to mark your original position. This beacon lasts 5 seconds.
      • Second Press: Leap back to your beacon dealing 175% Support Power damage to the 5 closest enemies within 8 meters and knocking them down for 3 seconds.
    • Maelstrom
      • New Ability – Spin wildly throwing disks at the 5 closest enemies within 10 meters, dealing 50% Support Power in damage and taunting for 9 seconds.
    • Reaver
      • Reduced the Taunt duration to 4 seconds (down from 8 seconds).
      • Added a 25 Suit Power cost.
      • Now has a Stealth bonus that gives a Support Power buff and increases the Taunt duration to 8 seconds.
    Support the claims that he is a more AoE/CC/movement based tank that get's bonuses for some of it's abilities if he strikes out of the shadows (stealth).

    Engineer:

    ????????


    Now people, can we please use more DATA when talking about my precious tanks? :D

    [​IMG]
  11. FruitPunchHero

    FruitPunchHero Cupcake

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    18

    I think they planned to add variety even within each class with the LAS (Limited Action Set). So even two warrior tanks will have a different style or way of tanking. That being said, I imagine a few months down the road people will start finding the "optimal" builds and skill sets. When we reach that point you will start seeing very similar styles. Even still I imagine there will be more than 1-2 "optimal styles" in each class. I am excited to see how many different LAS combinations people can make work.
  12. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Likes Received:
    2,884
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Z-Lab
    Not even with the LAS system, but also the milestone system will add variety.

    For you are able to pick which bonus (milestone bonusses) you want for your tank!

    Some bonusses may improve your AoE tanking/survivability/main target tanking etc. etc.

    So you have to combine the LAS and Milestone system with your playing style and the situation to find the perfect tanking style for you!

    (check the post above yours for more inf0!)
    FruitPunchHero likes this.
  13. FruitPunchHero

    FruitPunchHero Cupcake

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Yes. You are correct. In my ignorance I posted before reading all the posts between mine and my quote and I am sorry. :p
    I am not worried about the variety of tanking styles.
    Extatica likes this.
  14. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Likes Received:
    2,884
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Z-Lab
    Well that's my problem.

    I've made quite some tanking threads in here, but most people don't know all the data about tanks (before posting).
    Hence why I took the time to once again try to collect some data and give it :D

    I feel like the tanking in WS has great potential, and the things I see now are all positively affecting this view of mine on carbines approuch to tanking.

    I still have some concerns, but I refrein from saying those untill i've gotten my hands on the Engineer tanking milestone effects + abilities, and some more info on raiding/PvPing.

    Here if you have some time, go read the first posts of these threads:
    tanking-in-pve-and-a-different-look-on-it
    the-black-sheep-of-the-holy-trinity-setup-in-pvp
  15. Mondasin

    Mondasin Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    May 27, 2013
    Likes Received:
    78
    Trophy Points:
    28
    always good to see more info on the brick walls that I'll be healing. Hopefully tanks in wildstar will have a low skillcap to enter/be usefull while maintaining a high skill cap for those who excel in the brick wall role.

    I know that when I tanked late Wrath early Cata as a paladin it was less me being a tank for my skills and more because we needed another offtank,
  16. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Likes Received:
    2,884
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Z-Lab
    As a WoW tank myself (Vanilla to begin Cata), i've seen it change from:
    ''We still need a X tank'' (for the skills), to ''We still need another offtank...just get one''

    Although I personally didn't liked either one of those.

    I wish they would say things like:
    ''We still need a GOOD tank...so go ask that one, since we know he's a good tank in raids''

    I want tanks to shine (even more then in some other games) if they are able to time their spells/effects and know how to dodge out of things :up: That's the hope I have for my WS ;)
    Satarn likes this.
  17. FruitPunchHero

    FruitPunchHero Cupcake

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Tanks had plenty of opportunities to shine in WoW. I do agree that things changed from wanting X tank for the skills to "just grab a tank". You could always tell when a tank was good. Especially as a healer. I always had the view that the great tanks were in the top guilds and hardcore groups because they got noticed for being good at the role (This went for all of the roles). Everyone else wasn't bad but wasn't the best either. Which is why I think you would not notice a shining example of a tank in PUGs (Pick up Groups) or the less focused guilds. The ones who shined didn't have to do PUGs or didn't want too. The rare times I saw a great tank in PUGs is before he got into one of those elite groups and he was picked up pretty soon after. This left the run of the mill guys to fill those spots in the public eye. I think that is just the nature of the beast. The best will always gravitate towards the best.
  18. AusterlitZ

    AusterlitZ Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 27, 2013
    Likes Received:
    315
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Tbh,the engineer seems to be better at soaking up damage/blocking damage than the warrior,but until we get our hands on the actual skills in game,and see how they interact with endgame gear and milestones,we can't really tell for sure.Also,the engi seems to act more like an offtank(not in the wow sense),protecting allies from damage,while the warrior is mostly focused on keeping damage away from him.
  19. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Likes Received:
    2,884
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Z-Lab
    You base this currently on?
  20. AusterlitZ

    AusterlitZ Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 27, 2013
    Likes Received:
    315
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I base it on the same thing people use for naming the last 2 classes,leaks.

Share This Page