1. Hey Guest! If you're more than just a WildStar fan and want to keep up on the latest MMO news, reviews and opinion pieces then I'd like to suggest you visit our sister site MMO Central

The difficulty of WildStar

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Firmitas, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. Slyndria

    Slyndria Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2013
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Indiana
    I agree the Grind was a bit crazy, however the pride that came with it was a big deal.

    The old days of WoW really had a "Keeping up with the Jones" attitude and I think that is great. It gave every player something to work for vs just logging in 1 time a week and collecting loot.

    There has to be a sense of pride and also jealously in the community to keep it moving forward!
    JarNod and Drasas like this.
  2. Dragnog

    Dragnog Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Likes Received:
    149
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I do agree that it seemed to be counter-intuitive to put large events to do with lore gated behind a raid. Perhaps Blizzard felt (at the time) that it was for everyone. I think that you can see from their current content that story is not so important in raids though it still does have some effect. This could be why we have seen the advent of the LFR so that everyone can experience the lore.
    Drasas likes this.
  3. Drasas

    Drasas Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Likes Received:
    280
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Antarctica
    This 1,000 times. How I long for the days of people looking at a guy in AQ/Naxx gear and hoping to someday be able to be good enough to be in that same position.
  4. JarNod

    JarNod WildStar Haiku Winner 2012 / Lead Guinea Pig

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Likes Received:
    815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Moscow, ID
    I agree. I disliked when they changed it so that all PvP gear could be bought through honor without regards to rank... Now you just had to jump into BGs and AFK (though people were still able to do that to get Grand Marshal but at least you had to do it all the time). Now, I don't like that you had to be in BGs 24/7 to get Grand Marshal, but at least it was difficult to achieve and thus gave people something to aspire to
  5. moneda

    moneda Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Likes Received:
    240
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I would love this.
  6. Dragnog

    Dragnog Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Likes Received:
    149
    Trophy Points:
    43
    As you seem to do quite a lot of pvp what would be a good way for gear progression to work in pvp in your opinion?
  7. Lethality

    Lethality "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Likes Received:
    629
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Perkunas! Good to see ya bud!

    I am truly hoping that Carbine's promise of elder game for everyone... truly everyone this time... will allow the big raids to exist without persecution or the fear to change them into something else. Because there will already BE something else for those people to do!

    I feel this is the most important thing for Carbine to follow through with, and if the words I heard at Arkship are an indication, they are taking end game far, far more seriously than anyone ever has.

    p.s. see sig.
    Drasas likes this.
  8. Drasas

    Drasas Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Likes Received:
    280
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Antarctica
    I've been trying to catch up with all the information for the game. Judging by some of the articles of yours the devs aren't arrogant pricks(Blizzard) or secretive halfwits(Bioware). I think we're in good hands.
  9. Lethality

    Lethality "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Likes Received:
    629
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    This comes up a lot as a rebuttal to "accessibility is better" however... the actual growth phases for WoW were in vanilla and BC. There was actually no growth after WoTLK. So you could make the argument it didn't go belly up, but it also lost the trajectory it had, coincidentally just as the level of effort for rewards was decreasing.

    That carrot on the stick, even if you're player who can never get the carrot, is a very important thing to the health of these games, in my opinion of course!

    For me it was a totally different thought. I thought "Now everyone can really give it a go". They have not experienced hard raiding but it is still a type of large group play. For me personally I found that it was not enough for me and that there was not enough of a challenge and I was investigating about making a 10 man raiding group to do the same content because I felt it was possible to do do.[/quote]

    From my admittedly anecdotal evidence of talking to players, most of them feel the same way about LFR. It simply wasn't enough to keep them interested, because it really wasn't gameplay (certainly not in the way that raids were actually intended to be experienced.) It was just a manner of killing time and getting loot while doing so.

    That's the biggest reason I'm sad for LFR - people who THINK they are raiding will never truly know what its like if that's all they do. They are saying "that's what all the hoopla was about? meh." So it's a self-fulfilling prophecy of death for large groups in that game. WildStar has a chance to set up boundaries so hopefully that won't have to happen!
    Patrician likes this.
  10. JarNod

    JarNod WildStar Haiku Winner 2012 / Lead Guinea Pig

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Likes Received:
    815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Moscow, ID
    I really don't know. Because you don't want to alienate the people who are not as skillful as others, but a time grind doesn't lend itself towards a healthy PvP community.

    Personally, I would love it if there was a way to loot guys you're fighting and can grab gear off them. But I don't know exactly how that would work.
    Lethality likes this.
  11. Lethality

    Lethality "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Likes Received:
    629
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    You know, I always wondered about looting in PvP like that. That would be a (at least perceived) way to get a piece of gear that may otherwise take a week or more to acquire. And it makes you feel like you have a shot every time you engage with another player.

    I think the "volume" of deaths you endure that is typical in MMO PvP though prohibits open loot or free loot every time you die. Perhaps, like a PvE boss, you simply have a "chance" to drop a piece of your gear each time you die... and also, it doesn't "remove" yours, but rather simply rewards another one to the lucky killer.

    And now that we are totally off topic, apologies!
  12. Dragnog

    Dragnog Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Likes Received:
    149
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Even though this may appear to be the case when comparing the two I am unconvinced that they are totally related. Blizzard obviously felt that way or you would have (by now) seen a change back to a hard raiding model.
    In the end for better or worse that is the choice that Blizzard has made and it has ostracized some of their most verbal players.

    I think that there will always be room for large group play (in some incarnation or other). I am not sure that it will always be in the form of raids but we know for Wildstar that it will be. Do you think that there is enough of an interest in previous raiders who feel that they have been let down to make a come back of 40-man raiding in Wildstar?
  13. Drasas

    Drasas Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Likes Received:
    280
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Antarctica
    I feel Blizzard opened Pandora's box when it came to raiding. Once they decided to both hand out gear for little effort and combined the lockouts of 25 and 10 with Cataclysm raiding and that game in general have been on the decline. Even if they would have stuck with their mid-Wrath model it would have been better than going "full retard" like they did in Cata. The reason the sub numbers didn't dwindle to the 8 million mark or below was because they bribed people with free Diablo 3 if they bought a year of Warcraft. As you can see from the recent numbers the subs are dropping pretty quickly once again now that the year contract is up.

    I'm going off on a tangent.
  14. Lethality

    Lethality "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Likes Received:
    629
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Well, I'm not sure. Many of the "hard core" from back in the day like myself have a really different lifestyle these days that if nothing else prevents the same kind of time commitment that we had back then!

    But there are some, and then all of the new incoming players with that kind of mindset that will fill in the large raid tiers nicely I think. There will probably be some big guilds making a comeback for WS (based on rumblings I am hearing).

    But the nice thing about it will be that the entire game doesn't depend on people doing that particular style of end game... there will be options, and I think that in and of itself can create a renaissance of the raid segment, even if it ends up being the smallest segment of end-gamers.
  15. Dragnog

    Dragnog Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Likes Received:
    149
    Trophy Points:
    43
    This too may appear to be off topic but it is related to difficulty. How do your guilds and you as individuals invest in other players to help them improve?

    If MMOs are growing in the number of people playing hten ther must be players out there who are jsut starting out.

    Do you feel this falls to the developer (as we have the attempts of some companies with LFG which have features that indicate this was about helping people) or do you feel that it falls to the community?
  16. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Likes Received:
    454
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Denmark
    People look at LFR as if it is the only version.

    The guild difficulty is still there. Guilds are still doing them.
    Hope likes this.
  17. Alverad

    Alverad Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Likes Received:
    285
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    London, UK
    On some realms, on many there simply aren't many people left. On the realm I played on, there is not one 25men raiding guild. Not even raiding socially. It's practically impossible to recruit anyone, for any sort of semi serious raiding. If it takes time and commitment, it scares people. Why do I have to sign up and be there? I can do LFR later in the week.... We mostly moved onto other games, keeping our WoW guild for the few dedicated fellows that treat it as their home. The mindset of new generation of players seems to be "efficient" play, not playing for fun, for any longterm achievement or just satisfaction - if it can be done at your convenience, in an hour, why bother commiting to something else? Right now, except for a couple of highly populated realms, in EU, it is really hard to recruit raiders. So yes, the content is there, recycled 3 times. Trying to find people willing to run it 3 times over is not so easy :p And that is enterily Blizzard's doing. The game now works for different types of players. That's fine as well, but I do believe there are quite a few ex WoWers eagerly waiting for a new game that would present the challange WoW once had, without the easy mode on the way.
  18. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Likes Received:
    454
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Denmark
    If a heroic raider burn out on doing both LFR and normal runs and heroic runs, they are doing it wrong, and it is their choice to do so. The challenging raid is still there though.

    For WoW I would prefer only one mode for guilds, it is a problem when the solution to less frequent content updates is to add multiple difficulties for raid instances -- would be nice if they up'ed the notch of difficulty for LFR, so it is closer to the current normal mode, and even better if they put both versions and raid sizes on a shared lockout per boss, so the compulsion to run every mode is obstructed.

    I believe it is more the long period in Cata without new content that burned raiders out on WoW, would not have mattered if there was only one difficulty to farm, it just took too long between new raid content. Just like D3 it is just not really fun rehashing the same content over and over wether or not the difficulty is changed.

    I also bet a good number of guilds, who had not already focused on only raiding 10 man with their very best players at the start of Cata, lost a good number for their 25 teams waiting for content to be added and found it easier to run 10 man entering MoP, rather than recruiting again. It was not only the typical player choosing the easy way, guild leadership also did (they burn out too).

    Maybe vet raiders, while waiting for something new in Cata, found out that they could spend more time on real life and do not really want to go back to hardcore guild runs. Everyone gets a wakeup call at some point, if their usual routine requiring less thought to just continue are actually interrupted, and the long wait in Cata was an interruption for many.
  19. JarNod

    JarNod WildStar Haiku Winner 2012 / Lead Guinea Pig

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Likes Received:
    815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Moscow, ID
    From the things I see online, it was the ease of the raids in WotLK that burnt people out. They didn't have that carrot just out of reach. I saw something recently that informed me that it took nearly 5 months for the last boss to be killed by a guild in TBC, but it took less than a week (counting leveling up) to kill the last boss in WotLK. Seems like the long period wouldn't have been AS big a deal if there was still something to conquer.
  20. Loveless

    Loveless Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2013
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Keep in mind, a lot of TBC's difficulty during raids was due to the fact that some of the bosses were just ungodly gear checks. I remember Entropius* being a brick wall for some time until patched, because the requirements for coordination, gear, and overall skill was so bonkers even the tops were taking issue. The other thing being WOTLK marked the era of more consistent 'top raiding guilds'. Hearing about the same folks over and over gets old so fast though....c'est la vie.

Share This Page